Dissapointed with SSR

[Dean]

Aw, Dean - you need to work on your believe-ability. I try to believe 6 impossible things before breakfast; quite a mind-stretcher.

And I simply love people on the DIS DVC forum proposing to ask the people on the DIS DVC forum about booking habits. Is there anyone out there who believe that this little group of Disney obsessives in any way mirrors the general population of point-forfeiting, last-minute reserving 90,000 DVC owners? Anyone? Bueller?

Dean's right, though - unless Disney starts releasing hard figures, all we're left with is individual (and DIS DVC forum, which is almost the same) assumptions about resorts, and our reading.of.tea.leaves.and.entrails of the dozen or so posts that say "I could / couldn't get into Resort XYZ at time t".

Be well!

PS to Ken: That's easy. Since we're easy going and easy to please, and have no great need for twice the variation, I'd say the 5 resorts w/600 rooms. And not only would that please me, but it would probably benefit everyone, as - given economies of scale and a smaller number of brands ("resort names") to market, provide mugs for, etc. - overall DVC dues would be less (I believe there is some portion of our dues that covers things beyond our home resort). More DVC buses, more bus stops at theme parks, increased complexity for that on-line system that's due any year now. Hey, Las Vegas has dozens of choices, but we only utilize a few - and having the additional choices yields no benefit to me.

Only if you have a closed mind. I think it's fact that OKW and SSR are easier to reserve in general than the other three in question nor is it a stretch that that fact translates to home resort usage, or lack of. The only complicating factor for SSR is the declared but unsold inventory. But I do realize there are people out there that don't want to be confused with facts, else everyone would get vaccines, no one would believe allergies cause ADD, etc. To some these things are a Religion, I said it before, much like College football discussions.

I don't disagree that a poll here is biased, I've said it several times myself. I was mainly responding to previous threads in this line where someone said post a poll, I'm not suggesting one, I was anticipating other responses. I am simply pointing out that IF anyone wants to do a poll, they need to structure it to minimize the bias of new owners and home resort infatuations. Selecting members that have been around will do that if one chose to pursue a poll. The more seasoned the members, the better the results.

 

[Orlanr]

Like Yogi Berra said, "the place is so crowded, nobody goes there anymore".

 

[SoCalKDG]

PS to Ken: That's easy. Since we're easy going and easy to please, and have no great need for twice the variation, I'd say the 5 resorts w/600 rooms. And not only would that please me, but it would probably benefit everyone, as - given economies of scale and a smaller number of brands ("resort names") to market, provide mugs for, etc. - overall DVC dues would be less (I believe there is some portion of our dues that covers things beyond our home resort). More DVC buses, more bus stops at theme parks, increased complexity for that on-line system that's due any year now. Hey, Las Vegas has dozens of choices, but we only utilize a few - and having the additional choices yields no benefit to me.

Congrats on being there in two days. Just back and can't wait to go again in January. At least I'll be at DL and DCA this Sunday.

So will your avatar change when Johnny Depp does Willy Wonka?

I'm not so sure our dues would change at all with less resorts. The rooms and number of people wouldn't change and any net gain would be negligible. Your reasons for chosing 5 is to help out DVC. I think they will be fine(they already handle 7 DVC resorts plus numerous concierge choices, etc). Busing already is in place for 14+ resorts.

Like Vegas, just because you don't need all those other choices doesn't mean others wouldn't like to have them. You favorite 2 places would be different than someone elses. The greater the number of choices the greater chance your favorites will be different than someone else. This means you will have a better chance of getting your favorite.


Example:

The places I've stayed or visited that I want to stay at in the future:
BWV, BCV, Contemporary, Polynesian, AKL

The places I've stayed or visited that I don't want to stay at:
VWL, SSR, GF, Pop, OKW

So thats 10. If all 10 were DVC then I'd be interested in 5. Not a bad set of choices. But in reality only 5 are DVC. I'm only interested in 2. Wow, not quite the selection even though the overall % of places I'm interested in isn't that great a difference(10%).

 

[WolfpackFan]

I have to admit up front, I don't really understand alot about what is being posted in this thread; but one thing does come to mind regarding this situation with SSR. From what I understand the "perceived" problem is that with the large size of SSR and the fact we are hearing that quite a few SSR owners might be buying SSR with attentions of booking other results at the 7 month window basically creating additional competition for the smaller resorts; what is to stop a black market on points trading. I own 150 points at VWL, what is to keep me from trading my 150 points with someone at BWV and make ressies at the 11 month window at each? Wouldn't this basically solve the problem? I do know one thing, I sure am glad I bought at VWL (and HH).

 

[Dean]

I have to admit up front, I don't really understand alot about what is being posted in this thread; but one thing does come to mind regarding this situation with SSR. From what I understand the "perceived" problem is that with the large size of SSR and the fact we are hearing that quite a few SSR owners might be buying SSR with attentions of booking other results at the 7 month window basically creating additional competition for the smaller resorts; what is to stop a black market on points trading. I own 150 points at VWL, what is to keep me from trading my 150 points with someone at BWV and make ressies at the 11 month window at each? Wouldn't this basically solve the problem? I do know one thing, I sure am glad I bought at VWL (and HH).

You can do private trading now but you have the same risks as any renter if you don't have the points in your control. For high demand options like GV, BW view, HH summer and the like; some are doing now exactly as you say. I wouldn't call it black market, I'd call it a private trade.

 

[childsplay]

I own 150 points at VWL, what is to keep me from trading my 150 points with someone at BWV and make ressies at the 11 month window at each?

This would work but it takes a certain amout of trust and finagling. There is no way for you to just "trade points", they would have to make the reservation for you and you for them(trust)...you can only move points one way, in or out of your account, not both, in any given year, so there would be no way to "give" your points and "get" theirs.

 

[WolfpackFan]

You can do private trading now but you have the same risks as any renter if you don't have the points in your control. For high demand options like GV, BW view, HH summer and the like; some are doing now exactly as you say. I wouldn't call it black market, I'd call it a private trade.

Perhaps black market wasn't the best term. As far as risks, that's where the DIS MB's serve a great purpose (among other things). You can tell from past posts, who are regulars and can learn alot about people that way. It's more like your trading with friends rather than total strangers.

 

[Lasrnw]

but for us "empty nesters" SSR is ideal. While we love children we have already raised ours and there seem to be less little ones in the pools and running on the walkways. We find it very relaxing and are glad that there's someplace for us loyal Disney fans who still want to return after the many, many, many trips with our kids growing up, when all that running around was never really a "vacation". I find now that I notice the buildings, the greenery, the architecture.....it's a whole new world!

 

[JeanJoe]

One thing I was wondering about the concerns about SSR owners buying in with the intent to infrequently or never stay at their home resort:

If well-informed people really wanted to buy in just in order to be able to make reservations at other resorts, why would they pay the price premium for SSR? I know many are concerned that SSR is large and will eventually have a higher impact than owners at HH / VB doing the same.

But... if I were a well-informed person who knew about the re-sale market, and wanted to buy a number of points exclusively to reserve elsewhere at the 7 month window, wouldn't I be better served by buying the $65 / point resales of VB than $87/80 / point direct/resale SSR points, if I weren't planning on staying at SSR anyway, so would not have the need for a 11 month booking advantage? (Similarly, a hypothetical SSR hater who bought SSR for this use would not care about the 12 year extra, unless they thought that new and more desirable DVC resorts that lasted until 2054 were going to be built.)

IF it were true that:
1) new prospective DVC buyers were well-informed, AND
2) new prospective DVC buyers intended to book primarily non-SSR

THEN:
- wouldn't you have expected the demand for VB / HH points for this usage to have slowly driven up the price / point at these 2 resorts?

Since that hasn't happened, I wonder if the probable truth is a combination of:

1) the usual new prospective DVC buyer is NOT well-informed, and just buys SSR direct, hearing the sales pitch for usage at multiple resorts, and is generally unaware of the near flame-wars occuring at the DIS boards,

AND/OR

2) most informed buyers who buy SSR do NOT intend to stay exclusively at other resorts.

As mentioned in another post, someone who DISLIKES SSR is probably a lot more likely to post their dislikes, and instigate a long-lasting thread, than a post that says "I liked SSR and would go there again," to which there isn't much exciting to reply to, and the thread would just disappear.

In fact, if I were someone who did not like SSR and wanted to stay mostly at a variety of other resorts, I wonder if the best way to go would be to get a deal at HH, given that you would then get your 11 month window for summer HH, which seems to be a desirable.

On the other hand, it was my visit to SSR a few weeks ago during a DVC tour that made me suddenly realize how NICE the rooms were at SSR, and got the wife and I looking into DVC.

Take all this with a rather large boulder of salt, as I am both a newbie, AND not even (yet) a DVC member. So don't bash too hard -- just wondering about all this.

Regards,

Joe

 

[conciergekelly]

On the same lines as the empy nester comment... SSR is also great for people with older kids. They can go to DTD on their own. There are all kinds of teen things to do, Virgin Mega Store, Mc Donalds, Disney Quest, movie theaters, etc. My kids arent thrilled with MK anymore. So those were the reasons I bought at SSR. Also, people who bought at other resorts for reasons like being close to MK and SAB etc. may grow out of those resorts when their kids get older or move out. I think that people are painting with a broad brush when they say that SSR is less attractive. It has a different appeal. That is what will make dvc work. If all of the resorts were the same and around the same attractions then it wouldn't appeal to everyone. Each resort has it's niche. It is good marketing to diversify.

 

[jade1]

One thing I was wondering about the concerns about SSR owners buying in with the intent to infrequently or never stay at their home resort:

If well-informed people really wanted to buy in just in order to be able to make reservations at other resorts, why would they pay the price premium for SSR? I know many are concerned that SSR is large and will eventually have a higher impact than owners at HH / VB doing the same.

But... if I were a well-informed person who knew about the re-sale market, and wanted to buy a number of points exclusively to reserve elsewhere at the 7 month window, wouldn't I be better served by buying the $65 / point resales of VB than $87/80 / point direct/resale SSR points, if I weren't planning on staying at SSR anyway, so would not have the need for a 11 month booking advantage? (Similarly, a hypothetical SSR hater who bought SSR for this use would not care about the 12 year extra, unless they thought that new and more desirable DVC resorts that lasted until 2054 were going to be built.)

IF it were true that:
1) new prospective DVC buyers were well-informed, AND
2) new prospective DVC buyers intended to book primarily non-SSR

THEN:
- wouldn't you have expected the demand for VB / HH points for this usage to have slowly driven up the price / point at these 2 resorts?

Since that hasn't happened, I wonder if the probable truth is a combination of:

1) the usual new prospective DVC buyer is NOT well-informed, and just buys SSR direct, hearing the sales pitch for usage at multiple resorts, and is generally unaware of the near flame-wars occuring at the DIS boards,

AND/OR

2) most informed buyers who buy SSR do NOT intend to stay exclusively at other resorts.

As mentioned in another post, someone who DISLIKES SSR is probably a lot more likely to post their dislikes, and instigate a long-lasting thread, than a post that says "I liked SSR and would go there again," to which there isn't much exciting to reply to, and the thread would just disappear.

In fact, if I were someone who did not like SSR and wanted to stay mostly at a variety of other resorts, I wonder if the best way to go would be to get a deal at HH, given that you would then get your 11 month window for summer HH, which seems to be a desirable.

On the other hand, it was my visit to SSR a few weeks ago during a DVC tour that made me suddenly realize how NICE the rooms were at SSR, and got the wife and I looking into DVC.

Take all this with a rather large boulder of salt, as I am both a newbie, AND not even (yet) a DVC member. So don't bash too hard -- just wondering about all this.

Regards,

Joe

You have some good points. Couple things may be financing is easier at Disney, resales do have closing costs, you do get an extra 14 years. If you really want VWL (or wherever) I recommend a resale there. Also this is happening already-resales at some are already as much or more than SSR. Also why buy off WDW property if you want to stay at WDW? At least you can book SSR and if nothing comes through (EX: XMAS/SPRING BREAK) SSR is still WDW and a great resort-otherwise you go to HH instead? Hope you didn't book airfare ahead.

 

[JeanJoe]

... Couple things may be financing is easier at Disney, resales do have closing costs, you do get an extra 14 years. ... Also this is happening already-resales at some are already as much or more than SSR. Also why buy off WDW property if you want to stay at WDW? At least you can book SSR and if nothing comes through (EX: XMAS/SPRING BREAK) SSR is still WDW and a great resort-otherwise you go to HH instead?

Agree with all your points.

Two of your points reflect the resale vs. buy direct decision (which actaully wasn't what I meant to address): financing (although I guess you're probably better off either NOT financing, or using a better rate home equity lone); and closing costs, which you just have to factor into each deal, depending on whether buyer or seller pays.

But the biggest point you mentioned was the book 1st at 11 months at SSR, then try to change at 7 months. That's a big deal, and would certainly drive up the value of SSR relative to off-site. Heh, there was one DIS'ers spouse who was quoted in a post as saying something like "I'd rather not go to WDW than stay at SSR," which I think was a bit extreme. Since most people probably DON'T feel that way, I guess I now better understand the SSR premium.

 

[OneMoreTry]

I officially assume that, 20 years from now, when all DVC owners are two decades older, the ability to walk (for 10, 20 or 30 minutes) to a theme park or two will be thought of as a negative, and the ability to park within yards of your building and take a bus everywhere on-site - including the pool - will suddenly make SSR the place to be! You'll need a wristband just to walk around! Booked solid at 11 months - one day!

I agree wholeheartedly with the assumption that long term owners will spend less time in the parks in the future. AFter 3 years in a row at WDW, even our 5 kids prefer not to spend as much time in the parks. Our last trip to Orlando we did not step on WDW property and were all fine with that. There's lots to do in Orlando. This will definitely make the larger, standalone resorts more popular in the future.

I also believe that DIS users are more likely to be park-hounds and book earlier than the casual DVC owner.

However, the resale factor may change the above. If owners sell out or begin renting points, the new owners or renters will be more anxious to be close to parks.

Finally, the lower point requirement at OKW will keep popularity up to some degree. (How to SSR points compare to OKW and the other resorts?)

 

[dianeschlicht]

SSR points are less in many cases than the other DVC resorts, except for OKW, so for the most part, they fall between the low points of OKW and the others. Perhaps that was a consious decision on Disney's part to make a more remote site more palatable.

 

[Daggett]

Here ya go

http://www.wdisneyw.co.uk/news92.html

 

[jade1]

I agree wholeheartedly with the assumption that long term owners will spend less time in the parks in the future. AFter 3 years in a row at WDW, even our 5 kids prefer not to spend as much time in the parks. Our last trip to Orlando we did not step on WDW property and were all fine with that. There's lots to do in Orlando. This will definitely make the larger, standalone resorts more popular in the future.

I also believe that DIS users are more likely to be park-hounds and book earlier than the casual DVC owner.

However, the resale factor may change the above. If owners sell out or begin renting points, the new owners or renters will be more anxious to be close to parks.

Finally, the lower point requirement at OKW will keep popularity up to some degree. (How to SSR points compare to OKW and the other resorts?)

I admit this will be true for many owners so SSR is a great choice (or EP or even BONNET CREEK). For us I am already counting the years until I can take the Grandkids to MK and the resorts. I also see no desire in us to not visit the parks until the day they pry my AP from cold dead hand.

 

[Dean]

OBut... if I were a well-informed person who knew about the re-sale market, and wanted to buy a number of points exclusively to reserve elsewhere at the 7 month window, wouldn't I be better served by buying the $65 / point resales of VB than $87/80 / point direct/resale SSR points, if I weren't planning on staying at SSR anyway, so would not have the need for a 11 month booking advantage? (Similarly, a hypothetical SSR hater who bought SSR for this use would not care about the 12 year extra, unless they thought that new and more desirable DVC resorts that lasted until 2054 were going to be built.)

IF it were true that:
1) new prospective DVC buyers were well-informed, AND
2) new prospective DVC buyers intended to book primarily non-SSR

THEN:
- wouldn't you have expected the demand for VB / HH points for this usage to have slowly driven up the price / point at these 2 resorts?

That's true to an extent however. Many people who buy in are not well informed. And even if they are there are other factors.

• These factors might include preferring to have an on site option to book something at the 11 month window and have a guaranteed room.
• desired/need for financing
• trust in Disney
• closing cost and maint fee concerns.

 

[crisi]

I agree wholeheartedly with the assumption that long term owners will spend less time in the parks in the future. AFter 3 years in a row at WDW, even our 5 kids prefer not to spend as much time in the parks. Our last trip to Orlando we did not step on WDW property and were all fine with that. There's lots to do in Orlando. This will definitely make the larger, standalone resorts more popular in the future.

I also believe that DIS users are more likely to be park-hounds and book earlier than the casual DVC owner.

However, the resale factor may change the above. If owners sell out or begin renting points, the new owners or renters will be more anxious to be close to parks.

Finally, the lower point requirement at OKW will keep popularity up to some degree. (How to SSR points compare to OKW and the other resorts?)

I'm not sure why this will make the standalone resorts more popular. I don't think "hotel vs. condo" preferences will change. I think that location may be less of a draw, but Epcot, I think, is a different type of draw than the MK. I see future trips where we spend little time in the MK and a lot of time golfing. But I don't see future trips where we don't go into Epcot. The Boardwalk area has a lot of restaurants and activities - and feels more "mature" to me than DTD. YMMV.

 

[Mickeysduck]

but for us "empty nesters" SSR is ideal. While we love children we have already raised ours and there seem to be less little ones in the pools and running on the walkways. We find it very relaxing and are glad that there's someplace for us loyal Disney fans who still want to return after the many, many, many trips with our kids growing up, when all that running around was never really a "vacation". I find now that I notice the buildings, the greenery, the architecture.....it's a whole new world!

I'm with you on that! As I said a few miles back, we love SSR with it's fountains, walkways, and quite pools. I think as more DVC owners kids grow up, and more DVC owners take vacations without the kids, SSR will become more and more popular. It really is "a whole new world!"

Oh...and we love kids too! Ours are also all grown up.

 

[Sammie]

We purchased SSR but have yet to stay there. We always book it 11 months out then try to switch to one of the others. Our reasoning is that we will pretty much ALWAYS be able to stay there if we want but the others are harder with only a 7 month window. So far we've been to OKW and BWV and loved them both. Rooms are better at OKW but the location of BWV is awesome!!

Has anyone been to SSR that actually liked it?

Liked it, No, absolutely Loved It! One of my favorites resorts and can't wait to go again.

I can understand different tastes, and different likes, but do not understand some critisms of SSR. One the outside hallways. How are they different from Old Key West which also has outside entrances. The critism of the food offerings again in my opinion is just personal opinion. I do not care at all for the offerings at the BW. That does not make it a subpar resort, just one that does not appeal to me. I love Artist's Pallette and if I want more Downtown Disney is as close to Congress Park as some villas are to the Boardwalk restaurants. Critism of the construction and new landscaping, are simply not worth mentioning. That would be like saying a 1 year old can't read. Some things take time. As to being close to the parks, no resort is close to all the parks, so again mute point.

If what this resort offers does not appeal to anyone that is understandable and acceptable. To say the resort is below the standards of other DVC resorts is not based on facts that can be backed up. None are perfect, but all offer some very wonderful amenties.