Disney's miscalculation with Genie/Genie+

[Selket]

I agree it makes off property look more enticing. Right now there are no December discounts and my rack room rate for AS Movies is around $230 a night more or less. I stay onsite because I need to use an ECV and it's much easier to use the internal transportation than to have to get a portable one (and maybe rent a car and have someone with me who can help). The cost of parking at the resort also makes me not want to bring a car and stay on-site (we do like to drive sometimes). I also am NOT a fan of trying to book aa 7am Genie pass. I usually sleep in on vacation so I liked the old FP system that let me pre-book those headliners for times I was likely to show up in the park that morning.

I haven't found any great deals off-site that are that much cheaper for a small family - and I still have to pay to park at the parks each day plus haul the ECV. Definitely some nice houses for bigger families at not much more than I'm paying to be in a value. I'm hoping for December discounts.

Maybe if they at least changed the Genie+ to letting folks who pre-buy it book a couple of advance passes (resort guest or not I don't really care lol).

 

[blabadie]

I think it's going to be dependent on the size of your family. If you're considering paying an extra 100+ per day for rides, you may start considering staying off property.

To some extent. But I think if family size/more space/less $ is a major motivator you probably were already staying offsite. (I know families who could afford onsite, but always rent a house so they can spread out without dealing with kids in unconnected hotel rooms.)

We are a family of 5. Most of our friends have 2-4 kids, so I think pretty typical family sizes. I've heard friends grumble about "another money grab"---but I haven't heard anyone suggest it would change their lodging/overall travel style. More just resignation that "it's already expensive, what's a little more in comparison to the $ we were already spending."

This is, of course, completely anecdotal evidence. But thought I'd share it as a contrast to the anecdotal evidence on these boards of families promising they won't stay onsite anymore.

 

[going/again]

Which offsite resort? I’ve been looking at Windsor HIlls because it appears to be the closest offsite that has washer/dryers kitchens (I’m going to be selling my DVC contract based upon the elimination of on-property perks), but I’d love to know if there are other good ones I should be looking at.

I'm not selling my DVC, but I'm going too rent it out and pay to stay at Universal, Disney will still get money from renters but none from me.

 

[seashoreCM]

After doing several off site trips with rental car in the 2000-2010 time frame I decided I did not want to hop in a car and drive for my 2019 trip. On site was the only reasonable way to go.

 

[iheartglaciers]

I'm curious to see if Disney experiences a decline in on-site hotel bookings. They've taken away so many perks in a short period of time (Magical Express, free MagicBands, true Extra Magic Hours, included parking, and now free FP).

I was a longtime believer in staying on-site for Disney transportation to the parks. I loved not having to drive and park. But my last trip changed my mind. I had my car (I was avoiding shared transportation because of COVID) and it was so nice not having to wait for buses. Obviously it's nice to be able to walk to the parks, but there are only a handful of hotels where you can do that.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I'm curious to see if Disney experiences a decline in on-site hotel bookings. They've taken away so many perks in a short period of time (Magical Express, free MagicBands, true Extra Magic Hours, included parking, and now free FP).

I was a longtime believer in staying on-site for Disney transportation to the parks. I loved not having to drive and park. But my last trip changed my mind. I had my car (I was avoiding shared transportation because of COVID) and it was so nice not having to wait for buses. Obviously it's nice to be able to walk to the parks, but there are only a handful of hotels where you can do that.

The bus transportation was absolutely abysmal on our July 9-19th trip. We gave up halfway through and just started taking Ubers to get to MK (via the contemporary and walking) and AK even though we were staying on site at the boardwalk. The buses just arrived so irregularly with an hour in between them frequently.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

People will still stay onsite because lots of people have more money than brains.

Wow. That’s offensive. Actually because of our brains my husband and I have enough money to purchase DVC and stay onsite. It’s a calculated splurge on our part because we don’t want to drive on vacation, or worry about Ubering with small kids. We also like staying in our home resort. And yes, we will spurge on Genie + and LL. Could we do a budget trip and save money? Sure. But because we budget in our everyday lives we are able to splurge on Disney trips.

 

[cakebaker]

We are firmly on site, but we've always been able to get significant discounts with an AP. We will continue to be on site because 1) I love being in the bubble 2) I do not want to go the the MK via the TTC and 3) The EMH's and EE benefits will be significantly more important as long as they aren't using Genie+, meaning we'll also definitely stay Deluxe or DVC.

I'm hoping AP discounts continue, if not we'll bite the bullet and pay what it costs to stay at one of the lower priced DVC's or Deluxe resorts. Fortunately (or not, depending on how I look at it) I have a voucher that has been waiting to be activated since our cancelled trip in March 2019. I bought it before the last big price increase so it'll be at least a year from activation before I have to face paying a higher price. I'm also hoping they add a few more perks to on site- a few freebie T1's, maybe include Genie + with a resort stay. If reservations aren't what they want them to be, they'll do something to entice people to stay on site- time will tell on that.

It's that, or we just don't go. I do not want to go if I have to stay off site for all the reasons I listed plus 1 - On our late July trip we stayed off site close to WDW when we arrived as it was late at night. We drove into WDW close to opening time and the traffic- OMG. In all our many years of coming to WDW, we never drove in at that time and never realized just how massive the line to get in is.

 

[Precmom1967]

My family is not staying on site for our November 2021 trip. We are staying in a nice hotel 3 blocks from the turn to the entrance from Disney Springs. We can stay there for 14 nights as compared to our favorite place POR. Are we sad, YES!! But we are staying for 2 weeks for what it would cost for 5 days on property!! No brainer! With all the perks gone, we will drive to the parks and enjoy our vacation on our terms, not the CEO or COO. We will not pay for Genie+ as I think I have paid enough already to walk through the gate. We have been to Disney 40+ times and with 2 weeks, we will see it all.

 

[mcd2745]

I was a longtime believer in staying on-site for Disney transportation to the parks. I loved not having to drive and park. But my last trip changed my mind. I had my car (I was avoiding shared transportation because of COVID) and it was so nice not having to wait for buses. Obviously it's nice to be able to walk to the parks, but there are only a handful of hotels where you can do that.

I had the opposite reaction driving to the parks. We always stayed on site, but our last time at WDW, we stayed offsite (we had won the use of a condo for a week in a raffle at a school fundraising event). Hated it, and completely reaffirmed our preference to stay on site. I couldn't stand driving to the parks, finding parking and the long treks to the gate. We much prefer to take Disney Transportation and get dropped off closer to the gates. I do agree they have been chipping away at the benefits to staying on site (eliminating Magical Express #1 among them). Still, i much prefer to be on site.

 

[focusondisney]

People will still stay onsite because lots of people have more money than brains. They are like every other tourist business in Florida right now. Demand is massive. No reason to give extra perks when people are yelling at you to take their money.

Staying on site has always been expensive. I haven’t stayed onsite at Disney in 30 years because of that.

Just because people don’t do things your way doesn’t mean they have no brains. How about we say people who stay offsite just dont have enough brains to make enough to pay for a decent vacation???

Everyone has different priorities for their lives or how they spend their money. Doesn’t mean they should be insulted because theirs are different from yours.

 

[supernova]

Unfortunately it's not just the perks for staying onsite that they have stripped away. No more magical express service. No more magic bands. No more FP's. No more in park purchases delivered to your room. No meal plan. No parades. The list goes on and on, and prices keep going up. WDW is starting to become just another park.

After Covid, parades will hopefully be back. Even though for the remainder of the year, it seems that nighttime parades will only be part of the after-hours events, so in theory, we would have to pay for them. Magic Bands are no longer really a necessity. Meal plans will be back, but I'm sure there will be a significant increase in price. There was a time when there was no Magical Express. We are now simply returning to those times.

 

[HopperFan]

Which offsite resort? I’ve been looking at Windsor HIlls because it appears to be the closest offsite that has washer/dryers kitchens (I’m going to be selling my DVC contract based upon the elimination of on-property perks), but I’d love to know if there are other good ones I should be looking at.

Oh there are lots! Wyndham Bonnet Creek is the best location; full laundry and full kitchens. I'd stay there every time if I could. We just stayed in a great 3 bedroom, but they also have 2 at Marriott World Center right off property. I've also stayed Sheraton Vistana, again full of everything minutes off property.

 

[Tattylou]

I had the opposite reaction driving to the parks. We always stayed on site, but our last time at WDW, we stayed offsite (we had won the use of a condo for a week in a raffle at a school fundraising event). Hated it, and completely reaffirmed our preference to stay on site. I couldn't stand driving to the parks, finding parking and the long treks to the gate. We much prefer to take Disney Transportation and get dropped off closer to the gates. I do agree they have been chipping away at the benefits to staying on site (eliminating Magical Express #1 among them). Still, i much prefer to be on site.

This is how I feel.
We also like onsite bc it is easier when traveling with a large group to split up and come/go between hotel and parks with Disney transportation. If we stayed offsite we would need multiple rental cars or multiple ubers to have that option.

 

[kathy884]

Let me add my 2 cents on the discussion. My family has been to WDW 9 times and each time we have stayed on property. The magic and perks outweighed the overpriced room prices. We are returning in December. Will we buy Genie+...yes. Will we probably ever stay on property again? Probably not. Here is why. I just priced seven nights at Beach Club during our stay and and an on property stay would have cost our family about $3200 MORE than the off-site resort we are staying at that has a lazy river etc. I'm guessing there are many families similar to mine and this is literally the one move that Disney could have made (taking away the old fast pass system) that completely flipped the value proposition away from staying on property. WDW in the long run IMO is going to lose lots of money because of this decision.

Disney might be doing you a big favor, getting you to try offsite. You might love offsite more than you ever imagined. And with the $3200 in savings, you could buy Genie+, some lighting lane passes and try some of the many other wonderful world class parks in the area. After being onsite nine times, I'm thinking offsite might be a great change for you. A lot of us long time frequent offsite visitors might say, "Hey it's about time. Come join the party of the incredible offsite deals in the overbuilt Orlando offsite market." And now maybe for some dollars we can get lighting lane for FOP or 7DMT for a price if we think it's worth it (impossible FPs to get at 30 days when you travel at busy times).

Are you a Disney stockholder and worried about Disney's bottom line?

I would think that Disney weighted this pretty carefully (as they do have those 30,000 to 40,000 hotel rooms to fill). If they aren't able to fill the rooms as anticipated, I would imagine that they will offer incentives or change course. They have a large demand for their product, and I'm thinking that a lot of the people who stay at their deluxe resorts aren't particularly price sensitive (have a lot of disposable income and are keen on the theming (which is unique at many of the deluxe properties). And the deluxe MK resorts have proximity to the MK that can't be beat. My guess is that they aren't going to have to worry about those. I think it's the value and moderate that would be more concern. For these, though, they would still have a market for those who don't want to drive or do uber/lyft (on property or Disney Springs is the way to go with that), those who want to be able to let teens split up (onsite is so great for teens to have independence and explore), and those who really want a Disney bubble. I'm a Disney stockholder and don't think this is a bad move for them. And as a die hard offsite visitor that doesn't buy into the Disney bubble (I think lol I have too much of a bean counter personality), I am happy to be able to be at the table to pay for a lightening lane pass if I want to do that "new" ride that has that crazy long long (not an option for when I travel with 30 day FP to get one). Disney relies on offsite visitors to fill the parks too (needs to keep them happy also), and I think FP+ just really didn't work well for the offsite visitor and caused too many problems and confusion. I may be hated on this forum, but to me I think getting rid of FP+ was a good move.

 

[B-Ride]

Our first 9 trips to Disney were onsite stays, the last 6 at the Poly which wasn't exactly bargain basement. We always felt the Disney ambience was worth it.

Our 10th trip, we needed more space and got a a two bedroom place with a kitchen, two bathrooms and a washer dryer (very important for drying wet shoes when it rained almost every day) for $3,000 less than our planned stay at the Contemporary in the least expensive room.

Disadvantages:
We had to pay for parking at the parks - now less than parking at a deluxe resort
A 30 window for FastPasses - now gone
No early opening - no worry since it is too crowded on those days.
Not the same Disney Magic - for $3,000 we can hire a magician.

Advantages:
Did I not mention - $3,000

Oh and I forgot to mention - the resort was on Disney property.

 

[cakebaker]

After Covid, parades will hopefully be back. Even though for the remainder of the year, it seems that nighttime parades will only be part of the after-hours events, so in theory, we would have to pay for them. Magic Bands are no longer really a necessity. Meal plans will be back, but I'm sure there will be a significant increase in price. There was a time when there was no Magical Express. We are now simply returning to those times.

They can no longer use Covid as an excuse to not being shows and parades back. They’re cramming as many people into the parks as they can. If it’s safe to have a parade you have to buy a ticket to see, it’s safe to bring back the regular parade. These are nothing but cost cutting measures. We’ll be back when Disney is back.

 

[Bulldog333]

Just because people don’t do things your way doesn’t mean they have no brains. How about we say people who stay offsite just dont have enough brains to make enough to pay for a decent vacation???

Everyone has different priorities for their lives or how they spend their money. Doesn’t mean they should be insulted because theirs are different from yours.

Disney might be doing you a big favor, getting you to try offsite. You might love offsite more than you ever imagined. And with the $3200 in savings, you could buy Genie+, some lighting lane passes and try some of the many other wonderful world class parks in the area. After being onsite nine times, I'm thinking offsite might be a great change for you. A lot of us long time frequent offsite visitors might say, "Hey it's about time. Come join the party of the incredible offsite deals in the overbuilt Orlando offsite market." And now maybe for some dollars we can get lighting lane for FOP or 7DMT for a price if we think it's worth it (impossible FPs to get at 30 days when you travel at busy times).

Are you a Disney stockholder and worried about Disney's bottom line?

I would think that Disney weighted this pretty carefully (as they do have those 30,000 to 40,000 hotel rooms to fill). If they aren't able to fill the rooms as anticipated, I would imagine that they will offer incentives or change course. They have a large demand for their product, and I'm thinking that a lot of the people who stay at their deluxe resorts aren't particularly price sensitive (have a lot of disposable income and are keen on the theming (which is unique at many of the deluxe properties). And the deluxe MK resorts have proximity to the MK that can't be beat. My guess is that they aren't going to have to worry about those. I think it's the value and moderate that would be more concern. For these, though, they would still have a market for those who don't want to drive or do uber/lyft (on property or Disney Springs is the way to go with that), those who want to be able to let teens split up (onsite is so great for teens to have independence and explore), and those who really want a Disney bubble. I'm a Disney stockholder and don't think this is a bad move for them. And as a die hard offsite visitor that doesn't buy into the Disney bubble (I think lol I have too much of a bean counter personality), I am happy to be able to be at the table to pay for a lightening lane pass if I want to do that "new" ride that has that crazy long ride (not an option for when I travel with 30 day FP to get one). Disney relies on offsite visitors to fill the parks too (needs to keep them happy also), and I think FP+ just really didn't work well for the offsite visitor and caused too many problems and confusion. I may be hated on this forum, but to me I think getting rid of FP+ was a good move.

Very good post and I agree with most everything you said. I am also a DIS shareholder and my main point of my original post is that the company has eliminated many perks in a very short period of time (some necessary due to covid/short staffing issues...others just seemingly out of greed). With the lessening of the "Disney Magic" that has made us die hards go back multiple times...willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars in the parks and resorts, I'm just concerned that this is going to be that final straw...ppl will start to look towards other travel experiences with their families because of the eroding "magic"

 

[TheBigErn]

Let me add my 2 cents on the discussion. My family has been to WDW 9 times and each time we have stayed on property. The magic and perks outweighed the overpriced room prices. We are returning in December. Will we buy Genie+...yes. Will we probably ever stay on property again? Probably not. Here is why. I just priced seven nights at Beach Club during our stay and and an on property stay would have cost our family about $3200 MORE than the off-site resort we are staying at that has a lazy river etc. I'm guessing there are many families similar to mine and this is literally the one move that Disney could have made (taking away the old fast pass system) that completely flipped the value proposition away from staying on property. WDW in the long run IMO is going to lose lots of money because of this decision.

Interesting point.

 

[cakebaker]

People will still stay onsite because lots of people have more money than brains

I’ve been going to WDW for 35 years. It’s not that I’m brainless, it’s that I know what I want and I’m willing and able to pay for it.