Disney's miscalculation with Genie/Genie+

[Bulldog333]

Let me add my 2 cents on the discussion. My family has been to WDW 9 times and each time we have stayed on property. The magic and perks outweighed the overpriced room prices. We are returning in December. Will we buy Genie+...yes. Will we probably ever stay on property again? Probably not. Here is why. I just priced seven nights at Beach Club during our stay and and an on property stay would have cost our family about $3200 MORE than the off-site resort we are staying at that has a lazy river etc. I'm guessing there are many families similar to mine and this is literally the one move that Disney could have made (taking away the old fast pass system) that completely flipped the value proposition away from staying on property. WDW in the long run IMO is going to lose lots of money because of this decision.

 

[FCDub]

Ok.

 

[Ikaikalani]

Unfortunately it's not just the perks for staying onsite that they have stripped away. No more magical express service. No more magic bands. No more FP's. No more in park purchases delivered to your room. No meal plan. No parades. The list goes on and on, and prices keep going up. WDW is starting to become just another park.

 

[Disneylover99]

If I decide to buy Genie+/LL we will look into offsite as well.

 

[J-Dog]

We never stay on-site, because it's always been considerably cheaper off-site, and we don't care about the Disney "bubble", and we always also go to Universal, Seaworld, I-Drive, etc, rather than just be stuck at WDW.

Even if we just consider the financial situation - a 12-day trip for 6 people, with a huge 6-bedroom AirBNB house with private pool and a rental car vs. 2 tiny WDW resort rooms and no private transportation, we save just over $2000.

I used to understand the extra cost of on-site is worth it to some people to be in the "bubble", get early FP+, EMH, etc, but now, given the lack of WDW perks, I just can't fathom why anyone would stay on-site anymore...

 

[OKW Lover]

I don't equate Genie with staying on property. To me these are two entirely separate things. Genie is about doing the parks. Staying on property is about where you sleep.

 

[Heather07438]

Worst case scenario...
Less people decide to pay WDW high prices. WDW offers deals and more people go back and WDW is still relatively expensive, just not quite as expensive. They are masters of psychology.

2 things that can happen with Genie system. It rolls out and people actually like it. It rolls out and so many people don't like it and stop going. With less people in the parks the people still going won't need any Genie upgrade purchases.

 

[Biggen]

People will still stay onsite because lots of people have more money than brains. They are like every other tourist business in Florida right now. Demand is massive. No reason to give extra perks when people are yelling at you to take their money.

Staying on site has always been expensive. I haven’t stayed onsite at Disney in 30 years because of that.

 

[Disneylover99]

What does this have to do with the Genie?

Staying on site has always been expensive. I have stayed inside at Disney in 30 years because of that.

I think many were hoping the Genie would offer some kind of meaningful incentive to stay on site.
The ability to book LL passes at 7am is not going to be enough to cut it for most. And now that guests have to pay for passes that were previously free, many will offset the cost by staying offsite.

 

[chimoe]

I thought being on-site allows you to book lighting passes at 7am prior to park open. Other offsite guests have to wait till park open.

 

[Marionnette]

I thought being on-site allows you to book lighting passes at 7am prior to park open. Other guests have to wait till park open. That’s a park.

Is that a sufficient incentive when all other onsite benefits have been removed? And FWIW, getting up at 7 AM while on vacation just for the "privilege" of paying for a time slot to ride an attraction is not a perk to a lot of people.

 

[J-Dog]

Is that a sufficient incentive when all other onsite benefits have been removed? And FWIW, getting up at 7 AM while on vacation just for the "privilege" of paying for a time slot to ride an attraction is not a perk to a lot of people.

Agreed. We are from the West Coast. For me, who's on Pacific Time, 7am Eastern is 4am Pacific. No way am I getting up at 4am on vacation just to spend more money. We already don't stay on-site, but this "perk" is certainly not going to draw us to on-site.

 

[footballmouse]

I honestly don't think people will stop going. You're going to have your die-hard Disney people that think everything Disney does is good and they will pay whatever is needed and then you have the families who go for the first time. These will be the same groups of people who will keep staying onsite. I don't think anything will change after these new things get put in place. I think the people who go often will be the ones looking at offsite places. I'm one of the people who stay offsite now that my kids are older, we need more room. I'm also one that wouldn't pay for the new Genie system, we'll wait in line. We don't go every year, we have to save quite a while in order to go and when we do go, we only eat one meal in the park (no snacks either). It's just going to cost way too much money to keep going on these trips. I am hoping to go to DL next year, we've never been and I at least want to experience it. Sadly that will probably be our last time going.

 

[HopperFan]

Let me add my 2 cents on the discussion. My family has been to WDW 9 times and each time we have stayed on property. The magic and perks outweighed the overpriced room prices. We are returning in December. Will we buy Genie+...yes. Will we probably ever stay on property again? Probably not. Here is why. I just priced seven nights at Beach Club during our stay and and an on property stay would have cost our family about $3200 MORE than the off-site resort we are staying at that has a lazy river etc. I'm guessing there are many families similar to mine and this is literally the one move that Disney could have made (taking away the old fast pass system) that completely flipped the value proposition away from staying on property. WDW in the long run IMO is going to lose lots of money because of this decision.

For many reasons I don't think they will lose money. I don't think anything will change as far as their occupancy or attendance. Due to "travel circumstances" in the world, I think domestic travel will stay up for some time. They will continue to be a top destination, and with many new guests which is their actual target market. If their hotels are full of all new guests, they are good, they can upsell them more and these guests will have no expectations of what was "before". If you move offsite but still go to parks, they are good because most park guests are from offsite. Disney is dependent on offsite guests.

Disney was about the only park not offering a paid for "fast pass" so no matter what we all hoped for and argued for, it was inevitable. I am personally thrilled that Genie+ is so reasonable and IF they handle it like FP+ in terms of distribution it could work very well. No more 3 FP+ being held prior to park opening creates a big pool to pull from. I did quite well at rolling that last FP+ and hope this means doing the same. Having to purchase may also mean less people using the system which is a plus for those using it. I am worried about the pay for pass price point, but for me it will mean just giving up some table service. Guests will make it work for their needs; it won't change their trips and buy it, they will buy it and drop something else or they won't buy just like many didn't use FP+.

I don't equate Genie with staying on property. To me these are two entirely separate things. Genie is about doing the parks. Staying on property is about where you sleep.

THIS^

Everyone pays the same price for tickets to the parks no matter where you stay. Parks and hotels are two different profit centers. Where you stay has to do with your needs for your non-park time, your personal preference and budgets.

Genie is for park guests and I assume booking dining/events located outside the parks. It doesn't care where you stay. We must remember that Disney depends on offsite guests as there are only enough onsite to fill half the park capacity if they are lucky.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Let me add my 2 cents on the discussion. My family has been to WDW 9 times and each time we have stayed on property. The magic and perks outweighed the overpriced room prices. We are returning in December. Will we buy Genie+...yes. Will we probably ever stay on property again? Probably not. Here is why. I just priced seven nights at Beach Club during our stay and and an on property stay would have cost our family about $3200 MORE than the off-site resort we are staying at that has a lazy river etc. I'm guessing there are many families similar to mine and this is literally the one move that Disney could have made (taking away the old fast pass system) that completely flipped the value proposition away from staying on property. WDW in the long run IMO is going to lose lots of money because of this decision.

Which offsite resort? I’ve been looking at Windsor HIlls because it appears to be the closest offsite that has washer/dryers kitchens (I’m going to be selling my DVC contract based upon the elimination of on-property perks), but I’d love to know if there are other good ones I should be looking at.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I thought being on-site allows you to book lighting passes at 7am prior to park open. Other offsite guests have to wait till park open.

Counterpoint: I’m not waking up at 7 am during my vacation to book one fastpass, no matter where I’m staying. It was one thing to do that at 60 days out, but I’m not doing it every single day of my vacation. That benefit is worthless to me, and I’d bet it’s worthless to everyone coming from the West Coast.

 

[nw6675]

Is that a sufficient incentive when all other onsite benefits have been removed? And FWIW, getting up at 7 AM while on vacation just for the "privilege" of paying for a time slot to ride an attraction is not a perk to a lot of people.

Except for early birds like me drinking my coffee at sunrise wishing my sleepyheads would wake up Jokes aside, I completely agree.

 

[blabadie]

I don't think this will impact onsite hotel bookings as much as some might think. Most people I know never really booked the onsite hotels because of their perks. In fact, I was always surprised by how many of our friends never really bothered to significantly utilize onsite perks.

Many families stay onsite simply because staying in a Disney hotel seems a modest, but nonetheless integral, part of the Disney experience on a Disney vacation. When I do Disney, I want Disney. Sort of like when I do Yellowstone, I want Old Faithful Inn. The lodging is part of having the complete experience.

Obviously there are other families with different points of view, which is why all sorts of lodging exists. But I would be surprised if Genie+ makes a material difference in hotel reservations. When you look at the cost of Genie+ compared to the $ you're already spending, I don't think it's enough to move the decision dial for the majority of families who like staying onsite. Some yes, but not a noticeable stampede out the door.

 

[Disneylover99]

I don't think this will impact onsite hotel bookings as much as some might think. Most people I know never really booked the onsite hotels because of their perks. In fact, I was always surprised by how many of our friends never really bothered to significantly utilize onsite perks.

Many families stay onsite simply because staying in a Disney hotel seems a modest, but nonetheless integral, part of the Disney experience on a Disney vacation. When I do Disney, I want Disney. Sort of like when I do Yellowstone, I want Old Faithful Inn. The lodging is part of having the complete experience.

Obviously there are other families with different points of view, which is why all sorts of lodging exists. But I would be surprised if Genie+ makes a material difference in hotel reservations. When you look at the cost of Genie+ compared to the $ you're already spending, I don't think it's enough to move the decision dial for the majority of families who like staying onsite. Some yes, but not a noticeable stampede out the door.

I think it's going to be dependent on the size of your family. If you're considering paying an extra 100+ per day for rides, you may start considering staying off property.

 

[Ermise]

I honestly don't think people will stop going. You're going to have your die-hard Disney people that think everything Disney does is good and they will pay whatever is needed and then you have the families who go for the first time. These will be the same groups of people who will keep staying onsite. I don't think anything will change after these new things get put in place. I think the people who go often will be the ones looking at offsite places. I'm one of the people who stay offsite now that my kids are older, we need more room. I'm also one that wouldn't pay for the new Genie system, we'll wait in line. We don't go every year, we have to save quite a while in order to go and when we do go, we only eat one meal in the park (no snacks either). It's just going to cost way too much money to keep going on these trips. I am hoping to go to DL next year, we've never been and I at least want to experience it. Sadly that will probably be our last time going.

I'm not so sure. Things feel different this time around with many perks/privileges being lost at the same time. I would say I am one of the Disney die-hards, having gone 9 times over the past 10 years and I think we are done as a family for the time being. I resent being forced to upgrade to a deluxe hotel for the privilege of Extra Evening Hours. I resent the homogenization of dining experiences (buffets to the same tired platters) to save costs and labeled as changes required for safety reasons, yet a buffet is open in Disneyland. I resent having to pay for the privilege of reserving one ride at a time when I used to be able to reserve three at no cost. I resent the fact that Disney thinks I would pay extra $$ per ride, per person to skip to the front of the line. All this while prices continue to increase. The list goes on.

It seems like many others who might also classify themselves as Disney die-hards share my disappointment from what I've heard and read. Sure, with previous changes there were always rumblings, but this feels much different.