Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[toocherie]

Are people upset that Disney changed the points system, OR, did not notify people in a timely, appropriate manner? Or both? I am curious to see....As I said in another post, this change helped me, BUT, we are flexible as to when we can go.....I certainly feel for the people this hurt....DVC is a HUGE investment, esp in this economy.....

Does anyone know if this was discussed at the meeting in December?

According to what I have seen it was not discussed or even hinted at at the meeting in Dec.

Like you, the change doesn't necessarily hurt me. But I think people are upset both about the change itself (it does impact some established vacation patterns) and the timeliness and method in which the change was communicated.

 

[spiceycat]

Perhaps you are referring to the fact that DVD changed their rules allowing small add-ons at BLT and only after that period passed, they released the reallocated point chart. I'm not so sure that was dishonesty more than DVD not realizing how it would negatively impact those small BLT point owners.

my problem is that BLT has to add on 100 points - not the 25 like the other DVC resorts. if I could add on 25 points to my BLT contracts would - problem solved.I can not.

DVC knew this change was coming - it kept from us (BLT buyers) and guides.
that to me is dishonest. If I know then would have simply added more points.

they make sure the annoucement of BLT 100 point addition was well announced.

this to me and probably more dvc members than you think Mike - is not a small change.

how many new owners only brought the 160 points that they had too - thinking it would be fine to find out now it will not be. and guess what insist of a small add on like 25 points - they have to go with 100 points add on or change their vacation plans.

if you don't think this dishonest - how do you describe DVC upper mangement in regard to both the 100 add on only at BLT and this point chart change?

they definitely knew both - and they picked to do this way in the hope that enough of us would just buy 100 add on.

sorry my budget does not allow that much of add on - now 25 points could do it.

 

[disneynutz]

Like so many other corporations, Disney has changed their business model.

In the past they had a good balance between making a profit and being the Happiest Place On Earth. Sadly profit has slowly taken over. I wouldn't say that they are dishonest, but they are sure doing business in a gray area.

Part of the problem is that we don't believe and/or want to admit that Disney would do anything that isn't in our best interest.

A good example of this is BLT. I would guess that 90% of the buyers are expecting a MK view. All of the Disney, artiest conception drawings show a MK view with fireworks, so everyone expects it, right. Less than 85 total rooms are MK views and that number goes down when you factor in lock-offs and the MK views of the backstage areas.

I guess you could call it successful marketing.

 

[spiceycat]

This is another topic I would like more information on. I sent a message to MS, but didn't get a clear response. If a DVC member trades out, how does CRO use those points? Since they are not tied to a specific date (or even a specific resort within 7 months), couldn't they simply use those points for high occupancy seasons to ensure that they get used? I asked this question a few months ago and one kind DIS'er responded that he/she didn't think CRO would cherry pick prime dates and locations. Does anyone have reliable information on this policy?

if you traded to RCI - it gets the reservation (points)

if you traded to Disney resorts, concierge, adventure or cruise - then CRO has to rent the villa to pay for this stuff.

for II they used offseason, a few during holidays, but generally - May and Sept were big months - there is not enough information yet for RCI.

so everything could change with RCI.

so far never seem Easter, Palm, Memorial Day, July 4, THankgiving or Christmas to NY on II - but my trader is not a great one.

now did see Labor day.

 

[spiceycat]

A good example of this is BLT. I would guess that 90% of the buyers are expecting a MK view. All of the Disney, artiest conception drawings show a MK view with fireworks, so everyone expects it, right. Less than 85 total rooms are MK views and that number goes down when you factor in lock-offs and the MK views of the backstage areas.

when I say this when the BLT model first opened - someone reported back that DVC had changed the studio to be Bay Lake not the MK view.

but hey at least they are trying to show us a real view. that was the big problem with VWL - it was over at BWV and of course in those surrounding it did not fit. Know it is irrating that they are showing the MK view but at least it is better than SSR view (okay to me - your opinion might be different)

 

[maminnie]

Well, after several days of trying to read through this thread, I just want to say that my heart really goes out to those that are struggling with this change. DVC has been such a blessing for our family over the years. From the moment that we purchased in 2002 we have spent countless hours planning our multiple yearly vacations and then anticipating them. While our vacation habits have changed some over the last 6 years, as our kids have grown and gone from year round schools to high school, this present change will make us have to look at our vacations in a new light again. It also will change those thoughts that we had about how we might travel when the kids were out of the house and we would go down together. I frankly am shocked at the lack of compassion I have seen on this thread recently. We are all DVC members, who bought in, and bought what we felt like were enough points to travel when "we thought that we would travel the most" whatever season it was and whether it was a weekend or not. Berating other members just seems mean to me. Anyway, like I said, my heart really aches for those who are trying to sort out what to do, who have plans that are put on hold now. If you are like our family, your trips to WDW and the planning and anticipation of those trips mean a lot to you so I know how upsetting this can be. Hopefully we will all figure out a way to weather this.

LYSWL:

I would like to also thank you for your very kind post.

My family and I have also enjoyed so many wonderful visits to Disney. It just saddens me that the modified reservation policy, modified waitlist policy, and the point reallocation may now effect how we are able to vacation and have also encouraged us to consider selling. These three policys all make things more difficult for us in accomplishing vacations that we have been able to do for years. I am also not a fan of RCI. I just do not have confidence in DVC anymore and can't imagine what further changes they have in store for members.

Oh well, time will tell as to what we do. Best of luck to all.

maminnie

 

[maminnie]

Oh to be a DVC Sales Guide now! Can you imagine the scenario playing out now in the sales center.

Guide: "Mr & Mrs X now you just need to decide how many points you want. Here are the charts for your resort... oops here's this year's and here it is next year."

Mr X: "Why does it cost more to stay a week next year than this year?"

Guide: "Oh, that's just the recent point reallocation. They do that to balance expected demand."

Mr X: "So how many points will we need for the year after?"

Guide: "They can only increase by 20% every year, but there will never be more points than the resort has in total. Something else goes down. So take that number and add 20% as a buffer."

Mrs X: "They can increase every year?"

Guide: "As long as points decrease at other times of the year or for other units. A 20% buffer should cover it all."

Mr X: "But they can do that every year, you said. So what if they decide to increase the weekly points by another 20% next year. Should we buy 40% more?"

Mrs X: "I thought this idea of this progam was to lock in our vacation dollars at today's prices. It doesn't seem like we're locking anything in with a 20% point increase every year."

Guide: "No you misunderstand, it's a point reallocation. The points for your week may go up 20% maximum but they'll go down for another room type or season by that amount."

Mrs X: "But we only want to take trips during those weeks and we'd need twice as many points for a bigger room."

Mr X: "What's the most that week would cost us with all these point allocations? Who decides to make these changes? Do they consult members first?"

Guide: "Um, uh, we care about our members. We're part of a family."

Interesting post. What would a DVC sales representative say or do at this point?? How could they recommend any type of point amount at this point?? We as members have absolutely no idea what to expect in the years ahead. If I were to try and buy an add-on to correct the situation I now have to deal with, I would have absolutely know idea what number of points to buy.

So much for locking in for the years ahead.

maminnie

 

[Chuck S]

Interesting post. What would a DVC sales representative say or do at this point?? How could they recommend any type of point amount at this point?? We as members have absolutely no idea what to expect in the years ahead. If I were to try and buy an add-on to correct the situation I now have to deal with, I would have absolutely know idea what number of points to buy.

So much for locking in for the years ahead.

maminnie

There should be something in the POS for each resort that would detail either the points needed, or consecutive days you could stay with X number of points at maximum re-allocation. At least there is in my 1991 POS. It shows how many consecutive days for each room type you could stay with a 230 point contract (the minimum at the time). From that, you could calculate a very close approximation as to a final maximum reallocation point chart for the resort.

 

[disneynutz]

when I say this when the BLT model first opened - someone reported back that DVC had changed the studio to be Bay Lake not the MK view.

According to documents filed with Orange County, there appears that there are lock-offs that will be in the MK category.

 

[ashbradnmom]

Actually, below the THV/SSR promo in that Email were 4 bullet points that said:

Plus...

Disney Parks Celebrate US Military with Free Admission in 2009
New wait-list process designed to improve Member experience
Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points Charts
Sanaa reservations begin Feb. 16​

Not exactly highlighted and to find the details, you had to log into the DVC site. I never even noticed it until I saw the posts on this board and rechecked my deleted Emails.

yes that is right they seemed to push it off as not a big deal but the points for the THV was the main topic of the email

 

[Cmbar]

According to documents filed with Orange County, there appears that there are lock-offs that will be in the MK category.

Are you all saying that a Studio at BLT will never be a MK view? I have on my handy, dandy 2009 point chart which we all know is NO LONGER VALID, that there are indeed points for a MK view Studio. Since the recent changes am I to believe that there will no longer be that category for that size or at least the possibility that they can take that away as well? DVC Mike, you seem to know the contracts pretty well and it looks like you bought there. Any clue if they can change the view categories along with everything else as long as the total points per property stay the same in the same year. We unfortunately are one of those who can only buy the minimum and have to slum in the studios and stay only weekdays! Love to know if I will never be able to get a MK view at my home resort!

 

[BroganMc]

Interesting post. What would a DVC sales representative say or do at this point?? How could they recommend any type of point amount at this point?? We as members have absolutely no idea what to expect in the years ahead. If I were to try and buy an add-on to correct the situation I now have to deal with, I would have absolutely know idea what number of points to buy.

So much for locking in for the years ahead.

maminnie

At this point I think the Guide would lose the sale. The points system is hard enough to grasp for new buyers. That's why Guides usually speak of weeks, seasons and unit sizes. Those things seem more tangible and concrete to buyers' minds. That's why I'm alarmed by the changes in weekly totals. It's one thing to balance the points within a week to lesson the point requirements on weekends, but when you start seeing different more expensive weekly totals it looks very bad.

That's why I'm surprised there are those here are quick to accept and move on. I really wonder how many have studied those charts and looked for the balance. I've looked at them many ways with multiple calculations and I've yet to determine how they are "balanced". The numbers for units, seasons and weeks do not cancel out to zero.

It seems more like voodoo economics here where the only factor members or buyers have to work with is a possible 20% yearly increase in nightly point requirements.

This is the main reason I'm still waiting for DVC to respond and growing more and more skeptical by their silence. I don't have a problem with the reasons why they would make a change. I have a problem with how they changed things. I'm highly doubtful at this point they abided by the rules in the contract. I want to see their numbers. Prove to me those charts are balanced.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Are you all saying that a Studio at BLT will never be a MK view? I have on my handy, dandy 2009 point chart which we all know is NO LONGER VALID, that there are indeed points for a MK view Studio. Since the recent changes am I to believe that there will no longer be that category for that size or at least the possibility that they can take that away as well? DVC Mike, you seem to know the contracts pretty well and it looks like you bought there. Any clue if they can change the view categories along with everything else as long as the total points per property stay the same in the same year. We unfortunately are one of those who can only buy the minimum and have to slum in the studios and stay only weekdays! Love to know if I will never be able to get a MK view at my home resort!

I too have only purchased enough points for a studio. There has to be some studios with MK views for them to be included in the higher, MK View points catagory. How many, now that is the $100 Million dollar question! If you find out, please post.

 

[Dean]

There should be something in the POS for each resort that would detail either the points needed, or consecutive days you could stay with X number of points at maximum re-allocation. At least there is in my 1991 POS. It shows how many consecutive days for each room type you could stay with a 230 point contract (the minimum at the time). From that, you could calculate a very close approximation as to a final maximum reallocation point chart for the resort.

There is a maximum re-allocation chart in each POS but there is not a worst case scenario which to me would be the highest weeks went up. The problem that got this started was really people looking at only staying S-F and I was/am one of them though I didn't buy the points specifically with those calculations in mind. I think going forward one needs to look at the highest week for the unit size (Premier) for a full week as the benchmark of how many points you might need. Although given the change has already happen, the risk is likely far less today that it was a month ago.

 

[jamstew]

Actually, below the THV/SSR promo in that Email were 4 bullet points that said:

Plus...

Disney Parks Celebrate US Military with Free Admission in 2009
New wait-list process designed to improve Member experience
Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points Charts
Sanaa reservations begin Feb. 16​

Not exactly highlighted and to find the details, you had to log into the DVC site. I never even noticed it until I saw the posts on this board and rechecked my deleted Emails.

If I got one, I would have stopped reading by that point, if not after the THV promotion. So, it's possible that I did get it and deleted it. They do have my current email addy & are on my "safe" list.

 

[La2kw]

....I think Disney does what is best for Disney especilly in the last 3 or 4 years or so.....and I don't think we need to Rah Rah for them.

I agree that Disney does what's best for Disney. Lately, there is little regard for members. To think that these changes (like replacing glassware with Styrofoam) were made in our best interests is a bit naive, IMO. Many, many hotels all over the world sanitize their dishes every single day. Surely Disney is aware of this. It was a cost-cutting move and nothing else. I believe this point reallocation is timed to sell more points at a higher point cost, pure and simple. More money for DVC, happy times for some people who will make out better, and too bad for those of us who have lost value in our points.

Again, this is my opinion. I'm not willing to get into a debate over it or defend it in any way. I also read my contract and am well aware that DVC is within their rights, so please don't feel the need to explain that to me either.

 

[drusba]

Are you all saying that a Studio at BLT will never be a MK view? I have on my handy, dandy 2009 point chart which we all know is NO LONGER VALID, that there are indeed points for a MK view Studio. Since the recent changes am I to believe that there will no longer be that category for that size or at least the possibility that they can take that away as well? DVC Mike, you seem to know the contracts pretty well and it looks like you bought there. Any clue if they can change the view categories along with everything else as long as the total points per property stay the same in the same year. We unfortunately are one of those who can only buy the minimum and have to slum in the studios and stay only weekdays! Love to know if I will never be able to get a MK view at my home resort!

I think all that is being said is that MK rooms are going to be 2BR lock-offs meaning they can be used as 2BR, or studio and 1BR, which is true at all resorts. Also, majority of rooms will be Bay View, about 11% standard, and thus MK views make up only about 30% of the resort.

As to being able to eliminate pre-ordained booking/view categories, the official documents do not appear to say that can change. However, the official documents also appear to clearly show that Disney could not make the very change in the charts it has just made at BLT before BLT first experienced a year of occupancy. Thus, since Disney has apparently chosen to ignore the prescribed limits on its power, you never know what it might change next.

 

[maminnie]

There should be something in the POS for each resort that would detail either the points needed, or consecutive days you could stay with X number of points at maximum re-allocation. At least there is in my 1991 POS. It shows how many consecutive days for each room type you could stay with a 230 point contract (the minimum at the time). From that, you could calculate a very close approximation as to a final maximum reallocation point chart for the resort.

Chuck S:

Thank you for your advice. I will take a look at my contracts/POS for my purchases.

maminnie

 

[mickeymom629]

When I told DH about this change he said without hesitation, " so, now our points are worth less".

I have been reading some conniving ways that people are going to book with the new reservation policy.

I am getting worried.

La2kw - interesting point and I totally agree - increasing the points so people will see the necessity to buy more.

I love Disney, BUT WHAT IS HAPPENING????

 

[BWV Dreamin]

JMHO, but lets face it....it really is all about the dollar, pure and simple. Disney is a company, with a board of directors and shareholders (as has been previously stated). They have a responsibility to them to gain revenue how ever that may be. We are in just horrific economical times, and Disney is not immune to this. Get ready, the next income generating move.....extensions to the remaining 2042 resorts. This time, there may not be an "opt out".