Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[WilsonFlyer]

It's probably due to the 20% cap on increases. I don't think they could have both raised the weekday rates AND moved Dec 1-14 to a higher season while staying under the 20% increase limit.

I agree that change is probably next. Could be 2011...2 years...5 years...but demand for early-December clearly dictates that it is priced too low.

The verbage I've seen says the 20% cap isn't even real, just for argument's sake. There's a provision for overriding even the 20% cap. Check out the last line.

 

[WolfpackFan]

The B&B rules were not put in place for someone to take a very deliberate number of points (that were only 1/3 enough to begin with) for a very deliberate number of days at a very deliberate season and tweak and twine them so you could get exactly 5 days in exactly this room at this resort on these days every 3 years. Now you may not like hearing that because it doesn't suit your purpose but it's the truth. If you are doing this, you are taking advantage of a system that was designed to protect me.

Baloney. Who said the B&B rules were put into place as you describe them and what does it matter how you use them? I have never heard this rule before that you can only use B&B for certain conditions. How would it remotely matter to you how I use the rules. This is absurd.

 

[tjkraz]

So if early-December is priced too low and DVC increases the points, they would need to lower points during some other period of time. What period would they do that I wonder?

If it were my call I'd look at late-April (after Easter) and into May. May is currently all Dream Season (third highest) which is just ridiculous, IMO.

To over-simplify, I'd probably look at bumping Dec 1-14 up a category (from Adventure to Choice) and May 1-14 down a category (from Dream to Choice.) That may not be a precise adjustment but it's a fair starting point.

Seems like the last 2 weeks of August may also be overpriced given the "free dining" offers that are typically available during that period.

I guess it depends upon how things really fluctuate and how much DVC wants to fragment the calendar. For instance, all of January is Adventure seasons but traffic varies wildly that month between the end of the holiday guests, WDW Marathon and even MLK weekend.

 

[WolfpackFan]

If it were my call I'd look at late-April (after Easter) and into May. May is currently all Dream Season (third highest) which is just ridiculous, IMO.

I have to say, i wouldn't mind that at all.

 

[tjkraz]

The verbage I've seen says the 20% cap isn't even real, just for argument's sake. There's a provision for overriding even the 20% cap. Check out the last line.

True, but I'm not sure DVC wanted to open that Pandora's Box by exceeding the 20% cap. I understand there are instances where they went right up to 20% in these adjustments but nowhere did they go over.

Even without the 20% cap, I do think it makes statistical sense to wait a few years to gauge the impact before applying additional changes. As much as I think Dec is under-priced, I hope they wait several years before adjusting again.

 

[KLR-wlv]

But if early december has been booked - due to lower points - isn't that a GOOD thing if the whole idea is to keep occupancy up year round for the good of the timeshare system? So you raise the points there - and people stop coming then. I thought they wanted occupancy high? And I would think hurricane season would be low at VB - but points went up then too. I think this has a little to do with rentals - if the weekdays start causing renters to pay closer to CRO prices that will drive that down - and the high points for new resorts. So 40 points per night for a 1 br at VGC doesn't seem so out of whack.

 

[Chuck S]

But if early december has been booked - due to lower points - isn't that a GOOD thing if the whole idea is to keep occupancy up year round for the good of the timeshare system? So you raise the points there - and people stop coming then. I thought they wanted occupancy high? And I would think hurricane season would be low at VB - but points went up then too. I think this has a little to do with rentals - if the weekdays start causing renters to pay closer to CRO prices that will drive that down - and the high points for new resorts. So 40 points per night at VGC doesn't seem so out of whack.

You are confusing occupancy with demand. The are separate, and both need to be in balance.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Baloney. Who said the B&B rules were put into place as you describe them and what does it matter how you use them? I have never heard this rule before that you can only use B&B for certain conditions. How would it remotely matter to you how I use the rules. This is absurd.

If you own less than the minimum required by DVC as a new member (I don't know if you do or not), you probably never attended the presentation because you obviously didn't buy directly from DVC.

This is the way the B&B rules were presented to me at my meeting. It doesn't mean they can't be used in other ways but that was the way they were presented to me as their intended purpose.

If you never saw the presentation, you wouldn't have heard this and granted, my guide may have presented this differently than other guides may.

May I ask did you buy resale without ever attending a sales presentation? Just curious.

 

[WolfpackFan]

May I ask did you buy reasle without ever attending a sales presentation? Just curious.

Actually I have 290 points, all bought directly from DVC and I've been to several sales presentation. During none of them did they ever say you couldn't use B&B on a regular planned basis to extend your points to stay in non-consecutive years. In fact, on the contrary they told me that people do it all the time to extend their points and there is nothing wrong with doing it at all. In fact we plan on doing this with our AKV contract. We have 60 pts. on that contract and plan to borrow every other year to book our stays there.

 

[jekjones1558]

Can't banking and borrowing rules be changed? If so, we could REALLY hear screams!

 

[jekjones1558]

But if early december has been booked - due to lower points - isn't that a GOOD thing if the whole idea is to keep occupancy up year round for the good of the timeshare system? So you raise the points there - and people stop coming then.

I, for one, would continue to book early December even if it changed to a much higher season. I like the events and decorations and low crowd levels (though it has seemed to be getting busier lately) but don't want to be there during Christmas/New Years. I'll bet that I'm not the only one.

 

[Chuck S]

Can't banking and borrowing rules be changed? If so, we could REALLY hear screams!

Actually, we've already seen a somewhat minor adjustment. The "rule of 4" from the previous 100%-50%-25% banking windows.

I, for one, would continue to book early December even if it changed to a much higher season. I like the events and decorations and low crowd levels (though it has seemed to be getting busier lately) but don't want to be there during Christmas/New Years. I'll bet that I'm not the only one.

We also enjoyed early December the last few years, but there were just so many pople this year, we're going back to January, at least for a few years.

 

[toocherie]

Wilson: I am in the same situation as you--have enough points to take at least one vacation a year and if I want to add additional people can then or borrow from the following year. But remember earlier this year that in some limited circumstances DVC lowered the point minimum to 100? I'm sure those people came into this needed to borrow and bank. And I did attend the presentation and don't recall borrowing and banking being limited as you describe in my presentation. I don't see anything wrong with someone having a small contract and then borrowing and banking--but also am not one who bought a contract to just barely cover my needs and now find myself up the creek. However, I do recall in my presentation (after I indicated that I would not likely go to Florida EVERY year) that banking and borrowing were available so that I could rack up points and do a large vacation (or get a large villa if I wanted to take friends and family).

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Wilson: I am in the same situation as you--have enough points to take at least one vacation a year and if I want to add additional people can then or borrow from the following year. But remember earlier this year that in some limited circumstances DVC lowered the point minimum to 100? I'm sure those people came into this needed to borrow and bank. And I did attend the presentation and don't recall borrowing and banking being limited as you describe in my presentation. I don't see anything wrong with someone having a small contract and then borrowing and banking--but also am not one who bought a contract to just barely cover my needs and now find myself up the creek. However, I do recall in my presentation (after I indicated that I would not likely go to Florida EVERY year) that banking and borrowing were available so that I could rack up points and do a large vacation (or get a large villa if I wanted to take friends and family).

I fear I've been misinterpreted here as I didn't do as good of a job explaining myself as I had thought. My post was more directed at the folks depicted in the bolded text above than at the ones that bought in at the recommended DVC minimums.

 

[tjkraz]

But if early december has been booked - due to lower points - isn't that a GOOD thing if the whole idea is to keep occupancy up year round for the good of the timeshare system? So you raise the points there - and people stop coming then. I thought they wanted occupancy high?

Right now demand is such that people are on the phone at 9am exactly 11 months out in order to (virtually) guarantee a room for early-December. Switching resorts at 7 months is practically impossible because ALL of the resorts are often booked-up before the 7-month window arrives.

Raising the costs a few points per night is NOT going to lead to vacancies. It means that the rooms may fill up slower, or that members will have to use a greater share of their ownership in order to visit during that period.

The purpose of the charts is to balance demand...pure and simple. The periods which folks generally consider to be undesirable should be priced the lowest to encourage visits. September is a prime example. September deserves to be in the lowest season. Schools are just returning to session...hurricane season...nasty weather. We NEED the low points in September to encourage folks to use their points for those dates.

Early-December is the polar opposite. You could easily argue for moving those dates all the way up to Dream season--if not Magic season. I don't have access to DVC's reservation information but it sure seems like there is greater demand for early-December reservations than there is for the middle of the summer (June, July, August) which are in Magic season.

Raising the points would immediately impact demand so I don't think it would actually be proper to move early-December to Magic season. But I think a 1 or 2 category increase is more than warranted.

 

[KLR-wlv]

Disney has been selling add-ons of 25 points - how do they expect people to use them? I think the smaller add-ons are MEANT for B&B and I don't see how someone using those points once every 3 years - points they paid for and are paying dues for "hurts" any other member? THis is a point system. One that is sold on flexibility of different size units/different times of year. I just don't see how that is a detriment to anyone else's enjoyment of their purchase. That is the system disney has been selling - and if it wasn't - they wouldn't allow any purchases smaller than a week's worth of points - which - granted - seems to be their aim with the recent changes - but they should start a DVC2 for the newer resorts then if that is their goal.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Actually I have 290 points, all bought directly from DVC and I've been to several sales presentation. During none of them did they ever say you couldn't use B&B on a regular planned basis to extend your points to stay in non-consecutive years. In fact, on the contrary they told me that people do it all the time to extend their points and there is nothing wrong with doing it at all. In fact we plan on doing this with our AKV contract. We have 60 pts. on that contract and plan to borrow every other year to book our stays there.

My apologies then. My "long" post was certainly not directed to an owner like you.

Are these changes really going to adversely affect your travel plans to DVC? Seriously, maybe I need to sharpen my pencil and re-evaluate what it will do to my own if that's the case.

I think worst case with me is that I drop a day next year and bank'em and borrow a few the next year and add a day. I just don't see it as a life-altering kinda thing and I think that's kinda my point. If you bought in at the RECOMMENDED DVC minimums, it just doesn't seem to be a life-changing thing. Maybe the 100 point folks are in a little different boat but even then, they obviously didn't intend on going for a week every year in a one BR because if they did, they didn't buy enough points to begin with.

You get what you pay for. Don't you agree? Bargain shoppers sometimes get exactly what they pay for too. I think that's my point.

 

[cpdwiz]

Ok, I did the math...I thought I posted this somewhere, but, maybe its lost??

The days do not matter to us, whether weekend or weekday...thats a good thing....Also, I understand peoples frustrations at this change, esp when you pay so much money for it....Thankfully, we do not pay, or I would probably be up in arms...I researched our trips....

In 2009 we are going May 13th through May 17th....Studio, 4 nights....

1 night at AKV Savanna and 3 nights at BWV, regular view...for 2009 this will be 76 points....Now...2010, same scenario, rooms and days is 70 total points....That would save me 6 points...Not shabby.....

This past Dec, we went from the 1st through the 8th....2 BR at SSR...Cost me 270 points...Now, with the 2010 chart, same scenario....272...so the 6 points I save from may, I need 2 more for december......Again, not too bad.....

Hopefully it works out for everyone.....

 

[toocherie]

I fear I've been misinterpreted here as I didn't do as good of a job explaining myself as I had thought. My post was more directed at the folks depicted in the bolded text above than at the ones that bought in at the recommended DVC minimums.

But, and this is just an example, I believe Maria bought OKW at 150 points when that was the minimum--and it worked out that those points satisfied her family's vacations needs for Sun-Thurs. Now with the point increase that is not the case. So, she bought the recommended DVC minimum, but is now in a dilemma. So I don't think you can tie it to buying the DVC minimum. But I also think Maria got a lot of years using her membership to the max (whereas someone who also bought 150 points, but had to travel on weekends, didn't get as much usage). I understand the frustration of someone in Maria's position that they are no longer getting the usage they did before--but the person who previously went only three days, because their trip included a weekend, may now be able to go four days. It is really no different--in my mind--from your favorite restaurant that raises the price on your favorite dish--not the value it was before--but if they raise the price and you love the dish will you never ever go there again?

 

[chrisd596]

Don't like the changes AT ALL. Since the adjustments don't really change the overall points used for a full week stay, why make this change?

I guess I originally remember being told that the weekend points were higher so that the local people would have a chance to stay at these resorts.

So in my own case, I don't like both the change in points for the weekend and also don't like that you can call in and reserve an entire week. For someone who wants to reserve for Xmas week and has saved up the amount of points needed but doesn't want to reserve the Sat- Fri, now if you call in on Sunday all the members who have reserved Sat-F are all set.

Wow you can call in and reserve Sat-F and then cancel the Sat and have you entire week booked before I even get a chance to call for Sun-F.

For a Disney lover, these are really disappointing decisions.

Chris