Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[toocherie]

But, the basis for point reallocation was supposed to be on occupancy patterns unless you are suggesting that the sales department is driving the point allocations.....

If you look at 2010 VGC point values, you will see the weekend values are still quite heavily weighted.

Agreed, in many cases the VGC weekend points approach double the amount of points needed for weekdays. But that is how I would expect it to be--although the area around WDW has certainly grown up in the last 30 years VGC is in the middle of a very densely populated area. Add to that that most trips to DLR are shorter than trips to WDW (with "only" two parks) and unless the weekend days were a higher point value those days would be booked immediately at the 11 month mark. (And I'm not so sure that this is not going to be the case anyway.) Hence--"supply and demand."

Weekdays at VGC are going to be visitors from out of town who are coming in on vacation--not "casual" visitors coming in for a day or two in the parks. I think it is going to be difficult for someone wanting to stay a week to be able to book a full 7-day stay other than at the 11 month mark.

I suspect the occupancy rates in Florida did not bear out that weekend visitors were so prominent--something that the original point charts seemed to be predicated upon (the "locals" booking up weekends rationale for the original point charts having higher point values for weekends). It remains to be seen if this problem will now arise because of the re-allocation.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Excellent post Kat!

I also wonder about the less controversial waitlist change. Just so people know, 2 waitlists may mean that 2 bedroom lock-off and 2 bedroom dedicated will be two different waitlists. BWYWTS.

Yes - isn't that nice? There are several scenarios for the same size unit that would require more than one waitlist in order to give you the best chance. Just AKV with Jambo or Kidani option would be 2 waitlists - and what if you just really need a 2 bedroom and are willing to take standard, value or savanna in either building? It's now up to you to guess at what will give you the best chance of the waitlist fulfilling.

At the very least - if they're going to take more points from me then I'd like to be able to try and get the unit I would most need or would like to stay in if it's not an option at the time I'm booking.

 

[wendyinoc]

I wish weekends were close in line with weekdays. I think this makes sense but I can understand for people who go the same week every year.

 

[photobob]

While I understand the reasoning for the change, I am surprised how big the changes are. I guess though if they didn't make the changes as significant as they did then it wouldn't change the situation.

I was aware from our guide that some slight point changes could be made and they would have to balance out, if one thing went up something else would go down. I never dreamed that the changes could be this drastic. They may not be drastic to those who always stay an entire week, but for those of us who don't it is a significant change.

I still am happy we bought into DVC and am glad we are members. We love going so much, but the changes will not allow us to stay as many days as we did before. My sole reasoning for being upset is that we can't stay as long and we do enjoy it so.

 

[jamstew]

If everybody lost value I would agree you have a point. But individual losses are matched against other individual gains. If the net benefits for the membership is a "plus" then the losses are justified. Surely you wouldn't want your individual desires to take precedence over the membership as a whole?

But, but, but...if the change doesn't alter the booking patterns, what is accomplished? As a Sun-Thurs traveler, I'll still stay Sun-Thurs, spend the extra points, and continue to avoid weekends. So the cost has gone up for me and down for the weekender (which is fair), but the weekender still doesn't get my week nights. Don't know if this will be typical or not, but I guess time will tell. In my case and probably many others, the week night points didn't go up enough to warrant my spending less days, and the weekends didn't go down enough to interest me in staying longer.

 

[toocherie]

Yes - isn't that nice? There are several scenarios for the same size unit that would require more than one waitlist in order to give you the best chance. Just AKV with Jambo or Kidani option would be 2 waitlists - and what if you just really need a 2 bedroom and are willing to take standard, value or savanna in either building? It's now up to you to guess at what will give you the best chance of the waitlist fulfilling.

At the very least - if they're going to take more points from me then I'd like to be able to try and get the unit I would most need or would like to stay in if it's not an option at the time I'm booking.

Kathy: I just love the doggy-rear in your signature! Is that a Corgi you have? I saw two "huge" Corgi's at the vet yesterday and they were sooo cute.

 

[canals68]

This really is horrible. What a joke. Now as I'm looking more at it, it really hurts those who were able really stretch their points with Sun through Thursday stays.

 

[toocherie]

But, but, but...if the change doesn't alter the booking patterns, what is accomplished? As a Sun-Thurs traveler, I'll still stay Sun-Thurs, spend the extra points, and continue to avoid weekends. So the cost has gone up for me and down for the weekender (which is fair), but the weekender still doesn't get my week nights. Don't know if this will be typical or not, but I guess time will tell. In my case and probably many others, the week night points didn't go up enough to warrant my spending less days, and the weekends didn't go down enough to interest me in staying longer.

I think that's the fear some posters have mentioned--that this isn't the end of the changes (just the changes that could be made for THIS year). At some point it will affect the booking patterns. We just don't know what that point is.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Kathy: I just love the doggy-rear in your signature! Is that a Corgi you have? I saw two "huge" Corgi's at the vet yesterday and they were sooo cute.

Yep - that's a "bunny butt"! We actually have two cardigan corgi's so the wiggles are just a bit different! They're very fun dogs and I love 'em to pieces.

 

[tjkraz]

But, but, but...if the change doesn't alter the booking patterns, what is accomplished? As a Sun-Thurs traveler, I'll still stay Sun-Thurs, spend the extra points, and continue to avoid weekends. So the cost has gone up for me and down for the weekender (which is fair), but the weekender still doesn't get my week nights.

But those "extra" points of yours have to come from somewhere. If you keep your current holdings and take fewer trips, then you are freeing up weekdays for other people which would not have been available under the old charts.

Meanwhile someone who uses points for weekend stays will find their points go further.

Or DVC will be more attractive to people who favor the more reasonably-priced weekends.

However you slide it, the weekday nights now have capacity to absorb a larger number of all DVC points that have been issued.

 

[photobob]

But, but, but...if the change doesn't alter the booking patterns, what is accomplished? As a Sun-Thurs traveler, I'll still stay Sun-Thurs, spend the extra points, and continue to avoid weekends. So the cost has gone up for me and down for the weekender (which is fair), but the weekender still doesn't get my week nights. Don't know if this will be typical or not, but I guess time will tell. In my case and probably many others, the week night points didn't go up enough to warrant my spending less days, and the weekends didn't go down enough to interest me in staying longer.

You make a great point. I too am a Sun-Thurs traveler and the point change will not change that. I will continue to go Sun-Thurs. I am looking at either less days in a years time or staying in studios more.

 

[goldilocks_63]

I used to do longer weekends.... but then the cost of flying made my travel habits change, to where we would do atleast 1 week, and sometimes 10 days, because of the cost of airfare.

I wonder if this also factored in the decision. I think I was told once that the average trip was 5 days... (which coincides with the SUn - THursday).... so maybe this is an effort to keep people onsite longer.

Raise revenue on the Sun - THurs Studio crowd (has to be a lot of those), and also free up space so people could book a week. Also, encouraging those weekends to be at wdw, verses universal (Isn't harry potter coming there soon).

Just my thoughts.... GOldi

 

[drusba]

But, the basis for point reallocation was supposed to be on occupancy patterns unless you are suggesting that the sales department is driving the point allocations.....

If you look at 2010 VGC point values, you will see the weekend values are still quite heavily weighted.

You are on to something. The section in the POS in which Disney reserves the right to make a change in allocation of points expressly limits the excercise of that right "to respond to actual Club Member use patterns and changes in Club Member use demand," "to meet the Club Members' needs and expectations as evidenced by fluctuations in Use Day demand at the Club Member's Home Resort experienced by [Disney] during a given calendar year," and the right to allocate can be exercised "solely for adjusting the Home Resort Reservation Component to accommodate Club Member demand." Moreover it states that in setting up the initial chart for a resort that the DVD entities "have taken into account the location and anticipated relative use demand" for the resort. In other words, the very section that creates the power to reallocate declares the initial point chart to be valid and to have already accounted for estimated demand and states that it can only be changed based on actual experience at the resort during at least a calendar year.

Frankly, I think the BLT owners have a solid case that the chart changes are improper because the very section upon which Disney relies to justify its actions does not allow it to be done before there has been an actual pattern of occupancy at a resort.

 

[disworldnum1]

i know its whipping a dead horse,but the point changes will stop my every year use and make it an every other year use.I always rented sun to fri at bwv standard view for 160 points.Now the same rental is 170 points.So Disney will lose out on my spending every other year.You would think they would want a family down there sun to fri instead of just friday and saturday..way to go

 

[jdg345]

Not sure if this has been posted, but I just found a link to it (I'm not going through 80 pages of fun) ...

http://gallery.me.com/drowells#100081

It's a side-by-side comparison of the changes.

I just chalk it up to another enhancement brought on by overwhelming member request.

 

[jamstew]

Raise revenue on the Sun - THurs Studio crowd (has to be a lot of those), and also free up space so people could book a week. Also, encouraging those weekends to be at wdw

I'm one of the Sun-Thurs studio people. I do stay at least a week at WDW, onsite, just not all at DVC. My money doesn't go anywhere else (although my Dsis & niece really want to see Harry Potter).

 

[tjkraz]

You are on to something. The section in the POS in which Disney reserves the right to make a change in allocation of points expressly limits the excercise of that right "to respond to actual Club Member use patterns and changes in Club Member use demand," "to meet the Club Members' needs and expectations as evidenced by fluctuations in Use Day demand at the Club Member's Home Resort experienced by [Disney] during a given calendar year," and the right to allocate can be exercised "solely for adjusting the Home Resort Reservation Component to accommodate Club Member demand." Moreover it states that in setting up the initial chart for a resort that the DVD entities "have taken into account the location and anticipated relative use demand" for the resort. In other words, the very section that creates the power to reallocate declares the initial point chart to be valid and to have already accounted for estimated demand and states that it can only be changed based on actual experience at the resort during at least a calendar year.

Frankly, I think the BLT owners have a solid case that the chart changes are improper because the very section upon which Disney relies to justify its actions does not allow it to be done before there has been an actual pattern of occupancy at a resort.

You may well be correct, but it's also something you could cautiously file under the heading of "be careful what you wish for..."

Bear with me for a moment. Let's assume that BLT would actually get a reprieve from the 2010 increases. That sets up the following scenario:

Two bedroom Villa
Friday-Saturday Stay
Dream Season

Beach Club Villas: 58 points
BWV Preferred: 58 points
OKW: 52 points
AKV Savanna: 59 points
BLT Lake View: 70 points
BLT MK View: 86 points

While the weekday points at BLT will remain at their lower variants, the weekends will be much higher. This disparity will be high enough to convince some guests to move from BLT on the weekdays to other resorts.

That would lead to an even greater disparity between weekday/weekend occupancy at BLT. And in 1-2 years when DVC has enough data to reallocate the BLT charts, the weekday prices may be even higher than what is currently posted for 2010.

(In my mind it's undeniable that some people would make this move--the only point open to debate is the severity of the shift and whether it's significant enough to alter the point chart further.)

 

[toocherie]

You may well be correct, but it's also something you could cautiously file under the heading of "be careful what you wish for..."

Bear with me for a moment. Let's assume that BLT would actually get a reprieve from the 2010 increases. That sets up the following scenario:

Two bedroom Villa
Friday-Saturday Stay
Dream Season

Beach Club Villas: 58 points
BWV Preferred: 58 points
OKW: 52 points
AKV Savanna: 59 points
BLT Lake View: 70 points
BLT MK View: 86 points

While the weekday points at BLT will remain at their lower variants, the weekends will be much higher. This disparity will be high enough to convince some guests to move from BLT on the weekdays to other resorts.

That would lead to an even greater disparity between weekday/weekend occupancy at BLT. And in 1-2 years when DVC has enough data to reallocate the BLT charts, the weekday prices may be even higher than what is currently posted for 2010.

(In my mind it's undeniable that some people would make this move--the only point open to debate is the severity of the shift and whether it's significant enough to alter the point chart further.)

My thoughts too--even if that argument would stand up for the initial points chart, even after a year of occupancy (or maybe even less?) DVC could change the point chart based on occupancy--so the BLT members would get a reprieve for a year. But honestly, per my prior post, do any of us know where these point chart changes are leading? Would anyone at this point be surprised to see additional changes next year? or maybe the year after that? I wouldn't.

Edited to add: I seem to remember that prior threads talking about BLT several people indicated that they would stay one a night or two at BLT because of the higher point costs (especially for the Magic Kingdom view) and then move to a "cheaper" resort (point-wise) for the remainder of their stay. I would suspect they would time those short stays on a weekday to save even more on points (at least, that's what I would do in that situation!) So, it may be that when an occupancy pattern is determined after a year there may be even more of a disparity between weekend and weekday stays than at other resorts. In which event the weekday points at BLT would have to be raised even more and the weekend stays reduced.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Frankly, I think the BLT owners have a solid case that the chart changes are improper because the very section upon which Disney relies to justify its actions does not allow it to be done before there has been an actual pattern of occupancy at a resort.

And just out of curiosity.....3 months ago we purchased an add-on at Kidani Village and I have not yet been able to use my points there until after May when it opens ? No pattern of use has been tested at Kidani ?
I would love to have a case to purchase an extra 10-15 points..........and at the price before the increase on Jan 15. Do u think Kidani owners have any case on the grounds that BLT owners would ?
Maria

 

[toocherie]

Not sure if this has been posted, but I just found a link to it (I'm not going through 80 pages of fun) ...

http://gallery.me.com/drowells#100081

It's a side-by-side comparison of the changes.

I just chalk it up to another enhancement brought on by overwhelming member request.

Thank you--this was very helpful--it looks like the changes are all over the board.

i know its whipping a dead horse,but the point changes will stop my every year use and make it an every other year use.I always rented sun to fri at bwv standard view for 160 points.Now the same rental is 170 points.So Disney will lose out on my spending every other year.You would think they would want a family down there sun to fri instead of just friday and saturday..way to go

So, every two years you will have 320 points--how are you going to use the extra points over 170? will you stay longer? get a different sized unit? invite family to join you?