Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[Sammie]

I still think there is a point some are still missing. I seriously doubt if any that posted on this thread did not give their purchase the necessary financial focus it needed based on calm unemotional decision making. To imply otherwise, is well; insulting.

However the emotional, pixie dust loving, magic part of us did make us choose Disney to give our money to rather than some sleazy, slight of hand, time share operation.

Lately DVC is looking for like the latter and less like the house that Walt built.

 

[jarestel]

I agree that if a current owner walks away and someone else buys their contract, disney has another buyer- but that new buyer just bought out of OLD inventory at devalued prices, rather than from the enormous amounts of NEW inventory that Disney will have soon.

True enough, but WDW is probably close to, or at the saturation point for DVC properties. Hence the California, Hawaii, and whichever off-site properties they announce in the coming years. New buyers don't really care how things used to work, they care only about how they work now. If you were buying into DVC today, the weekday vs weekend points wouldn't be a make or break for you. Only existing members care about that.

 

[jarestel]

Unfortunately, Walt doesn't live here anymore, Sammie. I agree that things would no doubt be better if he did, but we have to deal with today's realities.

 

[toocherie]

Dean,

What you sign about oral representation in the contract only applies to the contract not to oral representations related to regulatory misrepresentation. Two different worlds and areas of the law

bookwormde

Not sure I understand your point--could you elaborate? Are you an attorney?

 

[tjkraz]

I still think there is a point some are still missing. I seriously doubt if any that posted on this thread did not give their purchase the necessary financial focus it needed based on calm unemotional decision making. To imply otherwise, is well; insulting.

However the emotional, pixie dust loving, magic part of us did make us choose Disney to give our money to rather than some sleazy, slight of hand, time share operation.

When it comes to something as highly regulated as a timeshare and the legal realities of property ownership, I'm not sure that DVC really has a choice.

Yes the communications were severely lacking.

But aside from that, you keep making references to this not being "the DVC of old" (or something to that effect.) I'd really like to have you elaborate on that. What things did DVD do, say, 10 years ago that set it apart from current management?

While I'm not enough of a kool-aid drinking sycophant to laud every move that DVC makes, I still think the pros far outweigh the cons. In recent years we've seen things like larger DVC rooms, more (better?) destinations, MUCH better furniture and fixtures in guest rooms, improved member perks (AP discount, attraction previews), better website, more special member events (Mixers, annual cruises, spring training games, etc.) and so on. I became a member a short time before Jim Lewis was named to head DVC, and from my perspective there are many areas in which DVC has vastly improved over that timeframe.

 

[MiaSRN62]

I wouldn't be surprised if that is DVC's ultimate goal which would then be accompanied by a minimum stay requirement to eliminate problems caused by "locals" booking up all of the weekend days. The fun is just beginning. The next 5 years should be very interesting!

Yep....don't think I ever thought it would go this way before 2-3 days ago. But now I see DVC very differently. And won't be doing any add-ons anymore.

 

[NinaRaimonda]

The points system is what makes Disney stand "Apart" from the everyday timeshare. They are not going to stray away from the points system, especially when they can use them to their advantage...

 

[jarestel]

The points system is what makes Disney stand "Apart" from the everyday timeshare. They are not going to stray away from the points system, especially when they can use them to their advantage...

They can't stray from the points system, since that would violate every contract signed from day 1. But that doesn't mean they could not regulate more strictly how those points are used.

 

[Dean]

Dean,

What you sign about oral representation in the contract only applies to the contract not to oral representations related to regulatory misrepresentation. Two different worlds and areas of the law

bookwormde

It's on the VERY first page of the POS. I'd interpret it as applying to anything related to the info in the POS. Certainly if they specifically told you frankly incorrect information AND you could prove it, you might have a case. There has been one or two successful cases in this arena with timeshares but the one I have some knowledge of involved repeated frank lies told to many many people over several years. I don't think I've seen anything posted that one could uphold as absolutely false, not complete maybe, but not false. For example saying "The points can never change" is not false, it just doesn't contain enough info.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is DVC's ultimate goal which would then be accompanied by a minimum stay requirement to eliminate problems caused by "locals" booking up all of the weekend days. The fun is just beginning. The next 5 years should be very interesting!

LOL, it depends. The problem is that we've really only seen a couple of minor issues of poor planning (AKV concierge/savannah issues), poor timing with this and changes that are clearly within DVC's right and in this case, obligation and were all reasonable. I know there are many that disagree but these are minor issues, "mountains out of molehills" come to mind. But what it does tell me is that they are now willing to make changes, something that has not been true in the past 12 years until more recently. Makes you wonder, and worry, about some of the other possibilities I've posted in the past doesn't it. Personally I don't think this is a sign that DVC is losing it and for the most part, look at the changes as positive overall. The fooled me twice issue with AKV notifications recently is the thing that bothers me the most because not only was it avoidable, this was the second time within a few months. Some might add the timing of these changes to that list of poor planning, I could see that interpretation but wouldn't go that far with this specific issue.

The points system is what makes Disney stand "Apart" from the everyday timeshare. They are not going to stray away from the points system, especially when they can use them to their advantage...

There are probably more resorts that work on points in the world now than do not, esp if you look at the newer and better ones. DVC wasn't the first and some would say, not the best points system.

 

[jarestel]

While I'm not enough of a kool-aid drinking sycophant to laud every move that DVC makes, I still think the pros far outweigh the cons. In recent years we've seen things like larger DVC rooms, more (better?) destinations, MUCH better furniture and fixtures in guest rooms, improved member perks (AP discount, attraction previews), better website, more special member events (Mixers, annual cruises, spring training games, etc.) and so on. I became a member a short time before Jim Lewis was named to head DVC, and from my perspective there are many areas in which DVC has vastly improved over that timeframe.

Good points, tjkraz! Some "enhancements" will benefit certain members while others will not. If you're on the "not" side, then things look bleak at the moment.

I've never been one who thought I would own DVC to the bitter end, for any number of reasons. Once DVC becomes more of a nuisance than a joy, I'll sell and be done with it. For now though, all of the recent changes notwithstanding, I'm still getting a net benefit!

 

[dcfromva]

All they would have to demonstrate is a change to actual vs anticipated patterns, not a change from say 2000 to now. This should have been done back in 2001 or 2002, the thing to fault DVC on is the delay. My info suggests they were so afraid of members reaction that they let it ride somewhat off balance.....
.... It's a management move, not really a business move, and one required of them by state law and the POS.

This does not make any sense at all that the points were out of whack for so long.
BCV came on line in 2002. They could have sold BCV with a different points schedule. There were no pre-existing members who would have been upset by it.
SSR came on line in 2004. They could have sold SSR with a different points schedule.

Same goes for AKV and BLT. So what was the basis for the previous points schedules?

 

[Sammie]

Unfortunately, Walt doesn't live here anymore, Sammie. I agree that things would no doubt be better if he did, but we have to deal with today's realities.

Then DVC needs to redo their website and quit selling their product based on Walt's values. That is my gripe.

 

[jarestel]

LOL, it depends. The problem is that we've really only seen a couple of minor issues of poor planning (AKV concierge/savannah issues), poor timing with this and changes that are clearly within DVC's right and in this case, obligation and were all reasonable. I know there are many that disagree but these are minor issues, "mountains out of molehills" come to mind. But what it does tell me is that they are now willing to make changes, something that has not been true in the past 12 years until more recently. Makes you wonder, and worry, about some of the other possibilities I've posted in the past doesn't it. Personally I don't think this is a sign that DVC is losing it and for the most part, look at the changes as positive overall. The fooled me twice issue with AKV notifications recently is the thing that bothers me the most because not only was it avoidable, this was the second time within a few months. Some might add the timing of these changes to that list of poor planning, I could see that interpretation but wouldn't go that far with this specific issue.

I'm always in favor of doing what benefits the DVC system as a whole rather than what benefits me as an individual. As an individual, I can bail if I decide that the the system no longer suits my needs. At this point it still does. If there comes a time when it does not, I'll sell my interests with no hard feelings.

 

[NinaRaimonda]

So the whole "dream" aspect of buying into DVC has been shattered. What a
rude awakening!!

 

[jamstew]

And lower weekend points will not encourage me to stay on weekends any more than before the allocation. Because I will always be able to stretch out my points by using weeknights.....it's just harder to do that now. I just wonder if we will see a big increase in the booking of studios and 1 bedrooms vs the 2 bedrooms from the Sun thru Thurs crowd in an attempt to retain the same length of vacation. People like me trying to recoup the lost points ? I wonder if this new allocation will make people downsize on a large scale. Only time will tell. I honestly don't think I'm the only Sun-Thurs person thinking about this & I'm sure I'm not the only Sun-Thurs DVC'er who has no plans to stay weekends simply because they dropped the points. This clearly benefits the weekend crowd the most. And there seems to be alot of them coming forward here so I don't get how there could be so much availability on the weekends considering so many here that state they stay over weekends, that DVC was pushed in the direction it took ?

Same here--I won't start booking weekends because they're still too much. The difference for me is that I can't downsize since I already stay in a studio I'll be staying the same number of nights as before and borrowing every few years when necessary, so I'm personally not freeing up week nights for anyone

 

[Sammie]

Changes that I do not like, very poor communication especially the member magazine. The DVC member magazine was a great resource the new one is a joke. They release things on the website and then email the members. The release of this adjustment, which I agree might be needed, was very poorly done.

Larger DVC rooms, where???, none are larger than OKW

To me the materials and products they buy are cheaper grade and do not last as long. I could care less for a small stackable washer and dryer in a tiny closet over a full size laundry room. Standardized the towels instead of having color coordinated towels like we got at OKW in the beginning.

Full Size walk-in closests got smaller and smaller to the point they disappeared at AKV.

The first member cruise was nice and focused on the members, every one since then has focused on sales.

The AP perk is nice and I appreciate that one.

I could go on and on but the truth of the matter is unless you were there before the current adminstration, it would be hard to realize how much has changed and very little for the better.

There used to be time when never, would a DVC member have to complain about cleaniness and the maintenance of the units. They were clean and well kept, that is not the case now.

Much of what has changed is very possible based on something less tangible. But DVC is still using that in their sales pitches and on their website.

They talk about values and traditions and heritage and they talk about how Walt would have done it.

Well lately I don't see alot of that from them. They sold me a "Home" and a membership in a "club".

They told me specifically it would be very different from a tradtional time-share, that they were far and above that.

When you mention home, you get into an area of it being personal. Since it can be said that humans are generally creatures of habit, the state of a person's home has been known to physiologically influence their behavior, emotions, and overall mental health (wiki).

So yes to some of us it is personal and not just business, because Disney told us when we bought it would be personal with them.

 

[toocherie]

This does not make any sense at all that the points were out of whack for so long.
BCV came on line in 2002. They could have sold BCV with a different points schedule. There were no pre-existing members who would have been upset by it.
SSR came on line in 2004. They could have sold SSR with a different points schedule.

Same goes for AKV and BLT. So what was the basis for the previous points schedules?

If you did not have similar points distributions for each resort then I think you would have had a disparity where people who stayed on weekends only stayed where the points were less on weekends and people who stayed Sun-Thurs. would have only stayed where points were less on weekdays--would have had the same problem but would have had different "vacancy" days at different resorts. If the points for weekends/weekdays at SSR, BLT, AKV etc. had been equalized as you suggest, you would have had those weekend only travelers crowding in those resorts--while the Sun-Thurs. travelers would book up the older resorts (where points would have been lower on weekdays). There has to be some equality among the resorts--they can't be out of whack.

 

[HookdonWDW]

Same here--I won't start booking weekends because they're still too much. The difference for me is that I can't downsize since I already stay in a studio I'll be staying the same number of nights as before and borrowing every few years when necessary, so I'm personally not freeing up week nights for anyone

Which is exactly why I don't think this will be the last points adjustment we see. Points will continue to be reallocated until they reach a point where booking habits change.

 

[NinaRaimonda]

Dean,

Are you sure you're not employed by Disney???

 

[Karamia]

I haven't read all of this yet but I am surely disappointed. I always stay Sunday through Thursday and this will impact all of our vacations. I also recommended DVC to several people, two who bought this past year. I feel I cheated them.