Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[DisFlan]

But wasn't that the PROBLEM back in the beginning? Weekends and weekdays were close to the same number of points, so locals were able to book up all the weekends, shutting out the possibility of booking an entire week to those that had to travel from far away? Won't it be right back where it all started if they do that?

It looks like they may well BE doing this. We'll know in the next year or two if there's another reassessment. I can't see where this one reassessment is going to even things out all that much.

bookworde - nice letter. Let us know when (if) you get a response.

DisFlan

 

[Sammie]

I have a theory. Years ago, the DVC bean counters may have figured they could sell more points annually by dropping the minimum buy-in to 150 points, selling a greater volume of new contracts than with a 210+ point minimum, as they likely saw a slight increase with the previous drops (230 to 210 to 170).

They also probably figured a fairly high percentage of new owners would "get their feet wet" with a 150 point contract, but then do add-on contracts to increase their ownership.

But the add-ons didn't materialize, and a substantial number of 150 point owners, rather than do add-ons went to a Sun to Thur only travel window, throwing resort usage out of balance, and increasing demand for Sun to Thur visits.

Now, it may not have been a big problem for a few years. DVC could have used the weekends for CRO reservations to offset the non-DVC trade costs. But, as the economy worsened over the last couple years, weekend cash demand may have fallen, cutting the ability of DVC to recoup those trade costs. At the same time, DVC owners that rented points were often seeing savvy renters who only wanted weekdays on points, substantially undercutting CRO cash reservations, and at the same time people with higher point counts than 150 who were renting points were causing increasing weekday DVC demand, throwing the system further out of balance.

Surely there was a combination of factors that would lead to a re-allocation.

I would say based on conversations with DVC since this happened, you are very accurate.

And I truly do not have a problem with the why, it is the HOW that is really irratating me. They have stopped treating us like Members and more like customers.

 

[ashbradnmom]

and on another note....ashbradnmom....how could is it and how much more snow did YOU get last night. It is 8 above here and we got 4".....I am dreaming of a preferred view BWV!

We are about 10 degrees and have about 2"

 

[lugnut33]

But when having to choose between decisions that determine the overall health of the program vs. making people feel good, DVC must side with the former.

Closing Space Mountain for 9 months isn't going to thrill many Walt Disney World guests. But the maintenance work is necessary so they have to bite that bullet. Removing the animals from AKV's Sunset Savanna is another unpopular move, but Kidani construction demands it happen.

I don't envision anyone sitting high in the Disney executive offices rubbing their hands together while muttering "now we have them where we want them!" Like it or not, the current system slowly slid out of balance with how the last 15 years worth of DVC buyers have chosen to use their points. An adjustment was the only way of fixing that imbalance.

Of course they gave more advanced warning about the closing of space mountain than they did the reallocation.

 

[Sammie]

Bookwormde, for security reasons, I would remove my personal info especially your email and phone number from your post.

 

[jekjones1558]

Okay, I hadn't thought about people not booking a weekend stay AT ALL, if a few weekdays weren't available to book with them, that does make sense. BUT at some point that member HAD to use their points, even if all they could get was the weekends, or, of course, lose their points.

I always used to book at 11 months. When I was still teaching full time it really wasn't hard--I knew a year ahead of time when I needed to travel. But we have health issues going on in our family now and I find myself canceling and trying to rebook and the pickin's are often pretty slim. I suspect there are lots of members whose work and other factors make it impossible to book very far in advance. Some probably trade outside of DVC. I read once on the DIS the estimated number of points that actually expire each year and I was shocked. I don't remember the number but it blew me away. A lot of members are being pinched with these points chart changes. I surely hope that there are at least an equal number who now find it a little easier to use their points.

 

[bookwormde]

sammie

I though I had changed it thanks for making me double check

Funny when I made reservation a couple of days ago I wished the very nice MS person good luck when the new charts came out.

bookwormde

 

[Sammie]

I always used to book at 11 months. When I was still teaching full time it really wasn't hard--I knew a year ahead of time when I needed to travel. But we have health issues going on in our family now and I find myself canceling and trying to rebook and the pickin's are often pretty slim. I suspect there are lots of members whose work and other factors make it impossible to book very far in advance. Some probably trade outside of DVC. I read once on the DIS the estimated number of points that actually expire each year and I was shocked. I don't remember the number but it blew me away. A lot of members are being pinched with these points chart changes. I surely hope that there are at least an equal number who now find it a little easier to use their points.

This has happened to us recently too. Our family job situation has changed, and we are not as flexible as we once were and family health issues too. Last year was the first time in many years we did not even go and the first time I had to bank points.

I am going on a trip for the first time without any of my family to keep from losing points.

The number I would like to see is how many members trade out of DVC to other locations. My guide told me he had nevered used his DVC membership for anything other than trades. He has no desire to stay at WDW and if he did he would use his CM discount for nonDVC resorts. Which was a pretty interesting comment.

 

[mickeymom629]

(Not yelling at you, MickeyMom, just venting).

I am in the same boat as you!

I have 200 points and usually get 2 bedrooms for my family of 6. Banking and borrowing, I was sometimes able to do 5 nights at BWV during spring break, but I could always count on 5 nights at OKW. Now, I will definitely be taking less trips.

And I was really looking forward to figuring out when I could do a couple of trips in a year to justify APs again. Now, I doubt I will find a year when I can afford to do that. At least, not until my kids don't come with us and DH and I can get studios or 1 bedrooms, but that's not the scenario I want for every trip.

I just don't get how it benefits Disney to do this...

 

[drusba]

Just going through the charts at BWV and wonder if this is what others are seeing with other charts. Except for a GV Sun through Thurs, if you reserve any room for five consecutive nights any time of year, regardless of which nights you choose such as weekdays only or weekdays with one or two weekend nights, the 2010 points needed for the same five consecutive nights appear to be higher than the 2009 points needed. This may also be the case for 6 night stays but I am getting "calculation" fatigue. In other words, everyone who normally goes 5 or 6 nights sees an increase regardless of which 5 or 6 consecutive nights in the week they choose.

 

[MeeskaMamaw]

Have been reading this thread for days now and ReneeQ's comments this afternoon are right on the money, at least in my situation. Also, Val is right on about Disney cutting off the hand that feeds them. You just wanted to expect a little more from Disney. We haven't even used our first points yet and I just feel deflated. Of course one of the first things we asked our guide before buying was about the points change...I can't imagine that NOT being one of the first things you would ask. She had a quick answer about how "oh they may take a point or two here or there but they have to add it back somewhere else....something like that. But it hardly ever happens" Oh well. We will live with, certainly don't like it. Really was considering a small addon too but not now. Who knows what may be next. Can't wait to see what the next increase might be in maintenance fees ??!!

 

[dis-happy]

See this is the real question to ponder. Supposedly the change was made due to complaints about availablity especially after the 6 month booking window. That only weekends were available.

So they adjusted. But, if this adjustment truly does not move some of the Sunday-Thursday crowd into the weekends they have accommplished nothing except to make the weekend crowd happy and anger the Sun-Thurs crowd.

They have not changed the booking trend and personally I don't think it will change that much. I think the members that booked Sunday-Thursday will continue to do so.

And according to the MS agent I talked to today, the phones are ringing off the wall and people are very upset.

I think you're getting at the crux of another $64. question....how does this fit in with the new waitlist policy and what exactly does DVC hope to accomplish?

 

[Doctor P]

Well, I don't think I am as up in arms about the change since for the most part it doesn't make much difference on the trips we take or even, in some cases, benefits us a little. That said, I can tell you from personal experience that there has definitely been significantly lower demand on weekends and I have used that to our benefit at the 7 month mark in the past. If I had to leave a night to be reserved at the seven month mark, I always left a weekend night as that would allow me to have fewer nights uncovered with the initial reservation AND (and this is a big AND) the demand was lower so I never have been shut out of a Friday or Saturday night at the seven month mark. That may change in the future, and that is fine since it should hopefully free up the weekday nights a little bit. Just based on some of the reservations we have made in the past, some of the point differentials are meaningful enough to shift demand--an OKW 2BR at Xmas time will now be 40 points less for the weekend (i.e., the maximum 20% reallocation). In contrast, a 2BR at Hilton Head for five weeknights at Xmas will now be 120 points versus 105 points (but the weekends will be substantially less, especially Saturday nights). So, for us, it all comes out in the wash. We might change our trips around a little bit, but we tend to go with the flow and just take the best vacation that our points will alllow at the time we want to go. I did have our vacation for 2011-2012 planned out before the new point charts (had to do it to make sure I used the right points and had an appropriate balance left for the next trip) and had to redo it based on the change in our 2009-2010 holiday trip points and the change in the points for the later trip. But, it all worked out (if they don't keep changing points every year, LOL).

 

[MiaSRN62]

So they adjusted. But, if this adjustment truly does not move some of the Sunday-Thursday crowd into the weekends they have accommplished nothing except to make the weekend crowd happy and anger the Sun-Thurs crowd.

Sammie....the above statement fits my situation to a "T".
I am one of the Sun-Thurs crowd. We have a total of 250 points now between OKW and AKV.

But, we have always utilized the Sun-Thurs both due to lower points, as well as the fact that I have owned an offsite timeshare since 1994 and I MUST check-in and out on a weekend so we have always added time to our vacation by tagging on days with DVC Sun thru Thurs. I have had no choice or flexibility with my offsite timeshare. And I knew this at the time of siging. Occasionally we have booked weekends with DVC (but I can count on one hand the number of times)......

But by DVC inducting this allocation....sure, the weekends went down, but the weeknights went up. So there is no way I can ever work around the fact that I am coming up short 30 points every year. And lower weekend points will not encourage me to stay on weekends any more than before the allocation. Because I will always be able to stretch out my points by using weeknights.....it's just harder to do that now. I just wonder if we will see a big increase in the booking of studios and 1 bedrooms vs the 2 bedrooms from the Sun thru Thurs crowd in an attempt to retain the same length of vacation. People like me trying to recoup the lost points ? I wonder if this new allocation will make people downsize on a large scale. Only time will tell. I honestly don't think I'm the only Sun-Thurs person thinking about this & I'm sure I'm not the only Sun-Thurs DVC'er who has no plans to stay weekends simply because they dropped the points. This clearly benefits the weekend crowd the most. And there seems to be alot of them coming forward here so I don't get how there could be so much availability on the weekends considering so many here that state they stay over weekends, that DVC was pushed in the direction it took ?


bookwormd....very well written and thought-out post.......

Sorry about the bold type Disneyjamie and any others I have offended. I've been on these boards for 8 years and have thousands of posts and done this quite often. You are the first person in all that time to ever say anything to me. I never thought it was an issue.

 

[bookwormde]

“The total number of points on this chart can never change. There may be adjustments for seasons and dates, but the overall total will not change for the life of your contract."

It is clear that advertising people are driving this type of marginally accurate information.

By the way this is written, if you add up the points on the chart it should not change, clearly this has happened, why not just shay that the total pints for the resort will never change but points requirements for dates, days, seasons and days assigned to seasons may change or The total number of resort points represented by this chart can never change. Oh yea being clear an honest might hurt sales.

Sorry the more I see and hear from other members the more cynical I become

bookwormde

 

[kristenrice]

After reading the last three pages, I am even more confused...

If people bought their contracts with enough points to take a Su-Th vacation, they are now forced to go fewer days....period. There is no way around it. Ok, so the luck parties of 2-4 people can maybe downgrade from a 1BR to a studio, but families of 5-6 are now stuck. I don't understand how this is supposed to increase occupancy.

 

[jarestel]

I wish there were a way to put pressure on Disney to open a window for multiple point transfers and for small point add-ons. Although I know that some folks are too angry to consider putting any more $$ into DVC vacations, I think that there are some who just want to solve their new point shortage dilemma.

The question arises whether this reallocation is a one time event or an on-going process to produce more of a points balance between weekdays and weekends. If that window were opened for you and then in 2 or 3 years the points were reallocated again, the howls would be 10 times as loud as they are today.

 

[Inkmahm]

Just going through the charts at BWV and wonder if this is what others are seeing with other charts. Except for a GV Sun through Thurs, if you reserve any room for five consecutive nights any time of year, regardless of which nights you choose such as weekdays only or weekdays with one or two weekend nights, the 2010 points needed for the same five consecutive nights appear to be higher than the 2009 points needed. This may also be the case for 6 night stays but I am getting "calculation" fatigue. In other words, everyone who normally goes 5 or 6 nights sees an increase regardless of which 5 or 6 consecutive nights in the week they choose.

No, I'm not seeing that. Our 1 bedroom BWV villa for F&W in October has decreased from 142 to 134 points for the 4 day weekend.

 

[Chuck S]

After reading the last three pages, I am even more confused...

If people bought their contracts with enough points to take a Su-Th vacation, they are now forced to go fewer days....period. There is no way around it. Ok, so the luck parties of 2-4 people can maybe downgrade from a 1BR to a studio, but families of 5-6 are now stuck. I don't understand how this is supposed to increase occupancy.

It is not, necessarily, designed to increase occupany. It is designed to balance demand for rooms. If 65% of members consistently wanted Sun to Thursday only, they could, in theory, block out a member who wanted a week or more, just as having too many weekend only user would block longer term travelers. Too much demand on weekdays and too little demand on weekends could also be somewhat behind the change to the 11 month plus 7 day booking window change, and the slight crack-down on commercial renting seen in recent years. It would seem DVC was trying other methods available to them to rebalance the system before they reallocated points.

 

[tjkraz]

See this is the real question to ponder. Supposedly the change was made due to complaints about availablity especially after the 6 month booking window. That only weekends were available.

So they adjusted. But, if this adjustment truly does not move some of the Sunday-Thursday crowd into the weekends they have accommplished nothing except to make the weekend crowd happy and anger the Sun-Thurs crowd.

Emotions aside, that's pretty much the point of the points charts--to create equilibrium between demand and supply. Making one crowd "happier" than another cannot be the only criteria for these sorts of decisions.

I bet it would make a lot of people happy if DVC had instead cut the weekday costs in half and re-doubled the weekends. But I hope I don't need to explain why that doesn't work.

They have not changed the booking trend and personally I don't think it will change that much. I think the members that booked Sunday-Thursday will continue to do so.

In the short term you are probably correct. Many will adapt by reducing their vacation frequency or picking less-expensive room sizes or classes. This will open up availability for people who wished to use points for weekdays that were previously blocked-out weeks or months before they could make a commitment.

In the long term it will impact purchasing decisions. Some people will sell their contracts--I'm not saying it will be in greater numbers than it is today--but turnover is constant. New members will discover DVC for the first time. The thousands of new owners DVC adds in the coming years will have a totally different perception of how points are used. Perhaps they will still lean toward weekdays even though the costs are higher than what you and I have previously seen. Others will simply favor the weeklong stays or weekdays plus 1. Still more will suddenly see weekend getaways as more reasonably-priced than they have been for more than a decade.