Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[MAGICFOR2]

Yea I am beginning to feel like I bought into Wyndham Fairfield not DVC. Makes me wonder what is coming, can’t imagine this is going to help resale prices, Uncertainty always hurts a market

bookwormde

I was thinking the same thing - wasn't time share given a bad name in the 80's because of people feeling like they'd been duped? I really thought Disney was different. I feel so sorry for the AKV people who haven't even got to use their resort before the points changed. Since when did "virtually" mean "really?"

I am just reading about this tonight! I'm not sure how it will affect our future plans yet, but it would have kept us away from our March 2009 trip - we are staying Sun-Thurs to use some "reservation points", then moving off-site. We only came because of the exact number of points we had to use, and the weekday rates were attractive. Were it costing 10 more points, we would have used them at DL or maybe one of the West Coast RCI properties.

I think DVC is shooting themselves in the foot, because people like us with smaller contracts will choose shorter visits or fewer visits -that means less money spent in the parks - great move during a recession!

 

[BroganMc]

I think that DVC needs to get the point charts right to optimize occupancy, especially as the number of members increase. However, the stability of the system is important as well. Just like the stock market craves stability and hates uncertainty (I admit this is oversimplified), DVC needs a stable points chart to sell to new members. If DVC gets into the position where they have to adjust more often, I believe customers won't be as willing to buy. When I bought, I knew that there was the possibility of reallocation, but I never dreamed it would be this drastic. I feel there are a lot of people with me on that as well. I will adjust to this change, and will continue to vacation at Disney. But if every few years the charts change, I will probably get fed up and sell.

Which is exactly what I would expect. That's why I'm coming down so harshly on DVC right now. This change was far too drastic and unreasonable. It's one thing if they had merely rebalanced the weekly points to keep the same totals per week and season. Instead they monkeyed with everything and changed the totals per week.

This after over a decade of selling based on a certain expectation of season and point schedules. I've watched many a sales presentation at DVC and I can bet you the sales guides are in a tizzy right now. They frequently advised buyers to study the charts and figure out when they'd like to go and what size unit when deciding how many points to purchase.

Reallocation of points was possible but not expected to be carried out to this level. It's gonna leave a sour taste in a lot of mouths and not have the expected effect DVC upper management thinks (selling more add-on contracts). Instead, I expect we'll see a flood of resales hit the market as people lose faith in the system and head for greener pastures.

After all, you can always rent points at a considerable savings.

 

[JPS439]

Ha! Don't you know that any complaints about DVC will warrant at least one lecture?

Was your room not cleaned properly, or did you have a broken piece of equipment in your room? Your fault for not personally making camp in the lobby for 3 hours waiting for a manager to come and fix the problem.

Were you disappointed in your room location? Your fault. Every member understands that requests are just requests ... no disappointment allowed.

Did you have a question about DVC financing? Fool. Everyone knows if you don't pay cash for DVC, then you can't afford it and need to go back to the HoJo.

Did a family member back out of a DVC vacation and your stuck with points in holding? Your fault. Everyone knows you don't invite family or friends to use your DVC points.

And, of course now, ... not enough points to book the same stay you have been booking for the past 5 years? Just close on a contract that is a few points shy of meeting your needs? Your fault b/c you should have purchased a point cushion.

Can't get into your home resort 9 months out? Your fault. Everyone knows you have to book at 9:00am exactly 11 months out.

Hurricane put a damper on your plans at DVC? Your fault. Everyone knows you don't book during hurricane season, or hurricane shoulder seasons.

Took 2 days, but I just finished all 58 pages of this thread. The best post was on page 16!

 

[maburke]

If teachers can get subs when they miss a day(and alot of them do quite often where i live) then they should get punished as well. If they miss a certain amount of days then they should loose pay or something along that line but that is not how it works whrere i live.

I bet it does. Teachers have a limited number of sick days. When I was a teacher on a school-year contract (not paid in the summers), I was not allowed to take vacation days at all, only sick days, and they were limited in number before I would lose pay. (Sorry so )

I did want to say that I don't for a moment believe that DVC did this in some way to encourage add-ons. They did it to balance out occupancy, which we really do need. When too many people are avoiding weekends, we are not going to be able to get into the weekdays that we want. That I think is also why we needed to make reservations further and further ahead of time. However, even if the total number of points remain the same, if they are evened out, it means that there are fewer ways to do a low-point stay, which I think devalues the membership. And for people who settled into a specific, well-planned pattern, this is distressing, especially coming so late (2 days before relevant reservations can start). And there is NO excuse for it coming 4 months after BLT sales started under the old-style chart, and one week after the minimum add-on went up there.

Maria, I feel for you! Give up on this thread and come back to the VB chair thread, where we love you and will give you much sympathy and gratitude!

 

[bookwormde]

I suspect that with the changes and uncertainty and the poor way the announcements have been handled that DVC has seriously decimated their “free” sales force (the existing members). I know that I have gone from wholeheartedly recommending DVC to cautiously recommending it to the point where I would just say nothing and now to the point where under current management I would actually discourage people from purchasing. I guess I deluded myself that DVC was actually being run by competent people with the interests of the members as a priority unlike other time-shares, silly me.

bookwormde

 

[drakethib]

So what is the best way to contact DVC and let them know of the dissatisfaction?

Does anyone have an email address to do so?

Has anyone done so yet?

 

[maminnie]

Without adequate notice of the point reallocation, DVC did not give their members the courtesy of allowing them to make educated decisions regarding their 2009 and 2010 points. Many have budgeted/allocated points for particular planned vacations during 2009 and 2010, banked, borrowed etc. based on the old charts. For some it may be too late to make necessary adjustments. How many would not have planned a certain trip or length of trip in 2009 if they knew they needed a few more points in 2010? How many would not have borrowed from 2010 if they knew more were going to be needed for their yearly trip to Disney? And of course how many who purchased recently at BLT or AKV would have purchased a few more points???

There is nothing emotional about this rather it is simply a fact and IMHO a very poor decision on DVC's part to release the reallocation at such a late date thereby likely effecting many of its members negatively.

maminnie

 

[CheapMom]

It's says on the DVD with Casey that your points will never change for as long as you own!!! So how can they change the points???

What is the direct quote on that? I would be very surprised if it is worded that plainly.

 

[lisareniff]

I suspect that with the changes and uncertainty and the poor way the announcements have been handled that DVC has seriously decimated their “free” sales force (the existing members). I know that I have gone from wholeheartedly recommending DVC to cautiously recommending it to the point where I would just say nothing and now to the point where under current management I would actually discourage people from purchasing. I guess I deluded myself that DVC was actually being run by competent people with the interests of the members as a priority unlike other time-shares, silly me.

I think your sediment may be common amongst many here. Before we purchased in Early 2003 there was nothing but praise and harmony toward DVC from posters here. That influenced our purchase to buy. The DISboards did have it's disgruntled members but it was more between members about which long hallways and an occasional dirty room. I'm not sure if I was to read the DISboards today if I would have purchased.

Although one of our planned trips just went up 20% (60pts) I only have issue with the implementation to the change and treatment of the members as Maminnie stated.

Without adequate notice of the point reallocation, DVC did not give their members the courtesy of allowing them to make educated decisions regarding their 2009 and 2010 points. Many have budgeted/allocated points for particular planned vacations during 2009 and 2010, banked, borrowed etc. based on the old charts. For some it may be too late to make necessary adjustments. How many would not have planned a certain trip or length of trip in 2009 if they knew they needed a few more points in 2010? How many would not have borrowed from 2010 if they knew more were going to be needed for their yearly trip to Disney? And of course how many who purchased recently at BLT or AKV would have purchased a few more points???

 

[rutgers1]

On the whole, my guess is that the DVC execs are patting themselves on the backs for a big coup. Yes, it sounds all nice and cheery that they balanced out the points and made weekends more affordable, but you have to realize that people ARE going to be vacationing less...which I think is just fine with them. Here's why - You are either going to:
1) fork over more money for an add-on
2) spend less days in their rooms

I think they actually want you to cut down your stays. Why? The less nights you stay, the more inventory they have to sell through CRO. The less moving around you do (to avoid weekend rates), they less they have to spend on mousekeeping.

Some people have mentioned that the points change was a stupid move by the DVC execs since they won't be getting our food and park ticket money. However, what you are forgetting is that the DVC execs could care less about your food and park ticket expenditures. As anyone who read Disney War knows, the various divisions of Disney (parks, DVC, movies, etc.) rarely communicate and all operate to make their own execs look good. So, if you spend less on park tickets, that is another guy's concern - not the DVC execs' concern. All DVC wants to do is sell more DVC and maximize the profits they get from those who have already purchased, and if they feel that changing the point totals can help them in any regard, they are going to do it regardless of what the current members think.

 

[disneybride96]

I am not happy with the week day points change. That being said, I understand the weekends not being full and the points adjustment being made.

However, I do believe that DVC created it's own monster in that regards. How many of you were Sun-Thurs travelers prior to buying DVC? I wasn't, but I sure enough changed when I bought in so that I could visit more often.

It makes sense that if most travelers stayed the weekends, you would have overlapping vacations thus full weekends. I suspect that the weekend points were high originally to avoid this situation. Unfortunately DVCers were smarter than they anticipated and avoided the weekends and high points, thus the low occupancy on weekends.

There are soooooo many things wrong with how this was announced, and so many individuals were misled and have really had their plans screwed up. I too almost purchased "just enough" BLT points, but luckly had my DH talk me into 100. (Those 'just enough' BLT folks should get their money back!)

DVC created their own monster. (Sun-Thurs travelers) and unfortunately they are now the ones taking the biggest hit on this points change. DVC can't be suprised that so many people are upset. They created the problem.

 

[BroganMc]

On the whole, my guess is that the DVC execs are patting themselves on the backs for a big coup. Yes, it sounds all nice and cheery that they balanced out the points and made weekends more affordable, but you have to realize that people ARE going to be vacationing less...which I think is just fine with them. Here's why - You are either going to:
1) fork over more money for an add-on
2) spend less days in their rooms

I think they actually want you to cut down your stays. Why? The less nights you stay, the more inventory they have to sell through CRO. The less moving around you do (to avoid weekend rates), they less they have to spend on mousekeeping.

Some people have mentioned that the points change was a stupid move by the DVC execs since they won't be getting our food and park ticket money. However, what you are forgetting is that the DVC execs could care less about your food and park ticket expenditures. As anyone who read Disney War knows, the various divisions of Disney (parks, DVC, movies, etc.) rarely communicate and all operate to make their own execs look good. So, if you spend less on park tickets, that is another guy's concern - not the DVC execs' concern. All DVC wants to do is sell more DVC and maximize the profits they get from those who have already purchased, and if they feel that changing the point totals can help them in any regard, they are going to do it regardless of what the current members think.

First of all, CRO doesn't get the rooms to rent unless DVC owners trade out on cruises, exchanges or to other CRO rooms. Making you stay less does not help them in this regard.

Second, shorter stays from members means more room turnover not less. More turnover, more cleaning. That member who stayed 12 days saved Mousekeeping a full cleaning.

Third, I highly doubt there will be enough add-ons to make it a worthwhile move for DVC execs. The sample of members here are showing an overwhelming majority who are obstinately refusing to add-on. DVC execs killed an incentive they had by bungling the news, apologizing and promising a fix then publishing the UNfixed charts anyway, and doing all of it after raising the sale prices and minimum add-ons. This done just days before members have to book 2010.

So while they may be chuckling over their coup, I suspect they'll be crying for a golden parachute 6 months from now when it blows up in their faces.

 

[Chuck S]

I think it will be interesting over the next year to see if, overall, this helps or hinders the resale market for 25 to 50 point contracts. I think it may increase demand at first from existing members who need a few more points for their normal established vacation habits, but will decrease demand from people that were buying small contracts just to get the AP discount and other perks, and staying only a night or two. It will also be interesting to see the effect on the overall point rental market, as those Sun-Thurs stays won;t be as attractive to renters if they are paying 20% to 30% more for the same stay. In a way, it is DVCs success and the smaller contract owners that contributed to the need for reallocation. Remember the original bu in was 230, not 150 points. And as I suggested a year or so ago, those smaller buy in contracts could have the same negative impact on Sun to Thur bookings that the locals theoretically would have had if the weekend points had been low when DVC started. This may also have somewhat led to the 7 day forward booking policy.

 

[KLR-wlv]

Well - It certainly makes them have to remake all those sales videos "With 175 points, you can stay 5 nights in magic season, plus two nights at a concierge collection hotel." Anyone saying that the sales people TOTALLY haven't been selling us on the maximization of lower point contracts by staying weeknights is deaf. Yes - my guide - when I bought (15%) more points at VB for a BC every other year - certainly recommended I use those points to stay one Saturday night, as opposed to 5 weeknights. ANd again - where are occupancy charts with reall factual numbers? I stayed a saturday night in OCtober at VB - booked last minute - and there was only one inn room left - and that's hurricane season. I really don't think those rooms are sitting empty on a regular basis. Perhaps they are anticipating that with the economy and that is why they changed - perhaps this is to entice more locals to buy. I have never had difficulty getting a reservation at DVC - so again - not sure about all these members who can't get any rooms. Perhaps locals who want a last minute trip have difficulty - but if you plan 5-10 months out - there has never been an issue in my 7 years as a member.

 

[Dean]

And if you had read better you'd note that I said "even if the sales staff didn't know, somebody surely did". That somebody would be higher-ups, or do you think they decided to do this in a day? I also think people here are mad with those higher-ups, not so much the sales staff because they realize that they are clueless.

And maybe at some point DVC/Disney needs to take some responsibility also? Why change the point system so close to the booking window opening? Why allow low point sales to go on at BLT/AKV? Why change the min. add on just before his comes down? Why bungle the announcement?

I honestly believe that had they announced this back in the fall of 08 with the implementation date of 2010 and given the real reasons for it (to get people to stay longer and more evenly utilize the total points), then I think it would have been better received. People could have adjusted to it better. It would be like the IRS coming out right now saying, "OK, we've decided to increase everyone's tax by 10%". Of course it's legal, but not right and it would p.o. a bunch of people.

LOL, there is always going to be a break point that is somewhat arbitrary. From a company standpoint they cannot and will not call the sales staff and say something like "be careful in this areas because we're going to make changes". The guides don't find out most things until we do or after, often after. The reason is if you tell them, or any similar group of employees, some will pass it along and then it becomes a much bigger mess with rumors posted places like here and then people start calling and emailing MS about the rumor of whatever the topic is. The guides are not clueless overall, it's just poor business to let such issues trickle down to such levels where it'll likely leak out. Think if your favorite restaurant closes and you show up for dinner with a reservation only to find they closed that day with a sign on the door for employees to call X number to get their final paycheck. I've seen this happen many time over the years though I don't agree with the approach, it's still the best one from a business standpoint.

To go a step further, this might be considered a trade secret for DVD/DVC and anyone who did let the cat out of the bag would likely have been putting their job on the line. You get no argument that the timing was somewhat poor, that it should have been out by or before the BLT chart was available, but it simply didn't happen so DVC and the members must go forward. Ask yourself one question, would most of the people posting saying they are upset, not be upset if DVC had done it that way. I would bet you that every single person who has posted on this thread as being upset isn't mad because of the timing, they're mad because of the change itself. The timing just rubs salt in the wound. With the two AKV fiasco's, this, the wait list changes and the reservation lead time changes; one has to ask themselves whether the current (and possibly future) DVC is right for them. The truth is they should have asked that question up front and assumed worst case scenarios. IMO these are minor issues that should not rock the foundation of one's DVC ownership and they are things where such changes and issues should be anticipated. Not that every specific change can be anticipated but that one should expect changes, and screw-ups, and know that most of them will not be favorable to everyone. I think people have held DVC to too high of a standard over the years and that some of these issues are simply bringing them back closer to earth. YMMV.

 

[KLR-wlv]

Dean - I have enjoyed your insight over the years - but with all due respect - I don't know how we should all just should have expected what we purchased to go to ****. When we have experienced one thing for the 7 or 15 years of owning a product. I guess I should purchase a house, expecting there to be a sinkhole under it, or radon in the basement, or the tree next door to surely fall on it at some point. I suppose that way of viewing all purchases would keep me from any disappointment. DVC has upheld a way of vacationing - which was sold to me - and which I have enjoyed as I understood it initially - for 8 years. WIth this drastic change - yes I believe changing weeknights the full 20% they are allowed under the contract is drastic - just as many would believe the full increase in maintenance fees allowed under law would be. What if that were the situation - what is the MF limit - 15% in one year? What would you say if - for the past 15 years DVC MF's have gone up the normal couple % points - and next year - they jump to the full % under law? I guess that should be expected too - and we should all purchase with the assumption that in 5 years, MF's will be double. I just don't trust this product anymore so I will not invest further thousands of dollars. Is that an emotionall decision? Sure - but it's a financial one for me and DVC as well.

 

[dzorn]

Without adequate notice of the point reallocation, DVC did not give their members the courtesy of allowing them to make educated decisions regarding their 2009 and 2010 points. Many have budgeted/allocated points for particular planned vacations during 2009 and 2010, banked, borrowed etc. based on the old charts. For some it may be too late to make necessary adjustments. How many would not have planned a certain trip or length of trip in 2009 if they knew they needed a few more points in 2010? How many would not have borrowed from 2010 if they knew more were going to be needed for their yearly trip to Disney? And of course how many who purchased recently at BLT or AKV would have purchased a few more points???

There is nothing emotional about this rather it is simply a fact and IMHO a very poor decision on DVC's part to release the reallocation at such a late date thereby likely effecting many of its members negatively.

maminnie

Yep For these reasons I will not promote DVC. Heck they better hope it's not to crowded when we go look at the BLT model's in a few weeks because I will not to quietly mention How I think they ******* the people that purchased BLT early.

Would I feel this way if BLT was handled appropriate way. Or is members were given reasonable notice. Nope. I can handle if they need to adjust for occupancy issues but it should be before the points for the use year are able to be used. Which would have been last January because that's when people we able to borrow their 2010 points.

Denise in MI

 

[BWV Dreamin]

LOL, there is always going to be a break point that is somewhat arbitrary. From a company standpoint they cannot and will not call the sales staff and say something like "be careful in this areas because we're going to make changes". The guides don't find out most things until we do or after, often after. The reason is if you tell them, or any similar group of employees, some will pass it along and then it becomes a much bigger mess with rumors posted places like here and then people start calling and emailing MS about the rumor of whatever the topic is. The guides are not clueless overall, it's just poor business to let such issues trickle down to such levels where it'll likely leak out. Think if your favorite restaurant closes and you show up for dinner with a reservation only to find they closed that day with a sign on the door for employees to call X number to get their final paycheck. I've seen this happen many time over the years though I don't agree with the approach, it's still the best one from a business standpoint.

To go a step further, this might be considered a trade secret for DVD/DVC and anyone who did let the cat out of the bag would likely have been putting their job on the line. You get no argument that the timing was somewhat poor, that it should have been out by or before the BLT chart was available, but it simply didn't happen so DVC and the members must go forward. Ask yourself one question, would most of the people posting saying they are upset, not be upset if DVC had done it that way. I would bet you that every single person who has posted on this thread as being upset isn't mad because of the timing, they're mad because of the change itself. The timing just rubs salt in the wound. With the two AKV fiasco's, this, the wait list changes and the reservation lead time changes; one has to ask themselves whether the current (and possibly future) DVC is right for them. The truth is they should have asked that question up front and assumed worst case scenarios. IMO these are minor issues that should not rock the foundation of one's DVC ownership and they are things where such changes and issues should be anticipated. Not that every specific change can be anticipated but that one should expect changes, and screw-ups, and know that most of them will not be favorable to everyone. I think people have held DVC to too high of a standard over the years and that some of these issues are simply bringing them back closer to earth. YMMV.

Hey Dean! Seems like the emotional posters are running to other timeshares (Marriot, Wyndham, etc) as a way to "do" something to offset the changes in DVC now. I have been slowly learning about the other timeshares, and it seems everyone has some type of risk, disadvantage, trading power issues. Each as a specific strategy that must be used to maximize that particular timeshare. I don't think others should be so quick to jump into these other timeshares. There is ALOT TO LEARN about them. I'm not so sure they are the solution to the unhappiness some are experiencing with DVC right now.

 

[Chuck S]

Friendly Reminder


Using *** to block out only part of a word that is in the board word filter, and leaving the word(s) recognizable, is considered a filter violation and subject to 30 infraction points. I realize this reallocation is an issue that negatively impacts a lot of members, but please remember the DIS Posting Guidelines and that these are family friendly boards.

Thanks.

 

[KLR-wlv]

But - regardless of the other timeshares issues - you get a 2 bedroom for 7 days - usually with no expiration - and on ebay for the $16000 I was going to buy 145 blt points with - I could buy 2 very good marriott or Hyatt weeks. not emotional - very much financial and practical - 14 days of vacationing, as opposed to 2.5 nights per year (that is until the next reallocation). Not emotional at all...