Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[BroganMc]

So it's official now?

Ok then I'm officially PO'd. Has anyone else checked what they did to the SSR charts?

The total cost per week has gone UP in several seasons and unit sizes (from studio to 2bedroom). The only one to see a consistent lowering of points have been the already overpriced Grand Villas.

Adventure Season
Studio - +1
1bedroom: -6
2bedroom: -1
GV: no change

Choice
Studio: +8
1bedroom: -2
2bedroom: -4
GV: -4

Dream
Studio: same
1bedroom: -1
2bedroom: +1
GV: -4

Magic
Studio: -2
1bedroom: +4
2bedroom: +2
GV: -4

Premier
Studio: -2
1bedroom: +4
2bedroom: +1
GV: -32


I thought the point was to rebalance the weekly totals to make weekends more affordable not entire weeks unaffordable? What happens to those who purchased exactly enough points to vacation every Spring or Summer for a week in a 2bedroom? They are now 2 points short every year.

I'm just not seeing how DVC will get out of this unscathed. At best it's a huge PR fiasco; at worst I can see a class action suit in the works. This has caused a value loss for a lot of ownership interests.

As to how it affects me, I figure I've lost about $1000 worth of ownership on my SSR contract. Before this change, I could manage a week in a studio for 4 of the 5 seasons and be 3 points under. Now I am 6 points short. That's a 9 point difference per year. To adjust either I can stay less, pay a cash night, or do a 25 pt add-on (which will cost me another $2500). The last thing I want to do is give DVC more of my money.

 

[hoodedrooster]

To say this is a sales ploy is not understanding the situation. It may hurt sales but this change is done by DVC, the management company, not DVD, the development company. They are separate in large part. There will be consequences but there always are with any change. While you may not add on, someone else likely will. And someone will stay in those rooms, actually a higher number of total people if the occupancy balance is better throughout the entire year.

Dean: Yes, I know DVC and DVD are legally different but they are still Disney and do work together. As far as increasing the prices and points (Sun - thurs), your statement that "someone else likely will" is what real estate agents were saying just a year ot two ago about real estate in Florida and other states until the bubble burst. Anyway, no argument from me that overal Disney will be fine with this after this dies down and people that know nothing about the change and price decide to buy. I have no problem with Disney doing this I was just saying we will be spending less time and money at WDW due to the change. Cheers.

 

[lisareniff]

The weird part is ONE week in February at VB got bumped from Magic to Premier and ONE week in April bumped down from Premier to Magic...anyone know why February 21 to 28 is so special in 2010? A local event in Vero, maybe?

From what I have gathered, they determine Premier Season to be the 7 weeks preceding Easter and the week following Easter. Sometimes this includes President's Week, like last year, depending on the date of Easter.

I am also one of those Sun-Thurs VB BC optimizers. The reallocated the max amount on Presidents Week, 20%. It was a very very good deal, 300 points for the 5 nights in a BC! Its a bummer for me but I understand many of the weekends were going unreserved or reserved for cash. Those weekend nights were twice as high at 150pts and the demand needed to be leveled out. It needed to be done but they once again showed total disrespect with how they treat the members with it's implementation.

...and I'm sad about the increase for my well crafted vacation plans.

 

[Inkmahm]

extremely illogical to say that point charts thats you signed up for were "gouging" you - you got what you agreed to. you realized your vacation plans were going to "gouge" you and you still signed the DVC contract anyway?

DVC has a right to change the charts and probably should - and it's nice for you if that works to your benefit - but it's not at all the "same" to have the rules changed on you, as it is to get what you expected. you could "accept it" or choose not to buy...getting rid of a contract after the fact is a little more of a hassle...

Gouging in comparison to weekdays and yes, I did. I've said that over and over. I also accepted that the points could change in the future because I actually read the paperwork that I signed when I bought DVC. I'm happy for the changes announced today.

 

[Inkmahm]

So.......what you are telling her is that

"well, you knew the weekend points where higher but bought anyways so that's your fault, but the Sun-thurs people got used to this benefit of taking advantage of the misbalancing of points and therefore we have a right to complain?"

How is that different than when it is said upfront in the POS that points can be reallocated as long as the overall total cannot increase. We just recently bought, and we knew not to "expect" anything.......

The rules weren't changed, DVC did what they had to by the rules.....

Exactly. The rules were not changed at all.

 

[DisneyDreams21]

The changes in the past year have irked me some, but the new chart will actually do two things for me directly: eliminate a trip or two each year and prevent me from offering my previously enthusiastic reviews when I talk to potential members.

I truly feel bad for those who purchased for a specific # of points and are hindered by the changes in major ways. I knew they could change the points charts and I crossed all my t's and dotted my i's when I purchased, but emotions aside, I will simply be going less. Include the emotion part and I will be looking at other vacation options to replace some of those extra Disney trips. The warm and fuzzy feelings just took a hit.

 

[Dean]

I thought the point was to rebalance the weekly totals to make weekends more affordable not entire weeks unaffordable?

I assume their point was to even out demand and therefore utilization over the entire year. Given the requirement to keep the points the same for the entire resort for the whole year and that it's impossible to predict exactly, I'm sure this is the "best guess" based on a plethora of historical data for DVC and WDW in general. Be careful because the other approach they can take is to change around the seasons by moving say early Dec to a higher season and lowering something else. I'm a little surprised they didn't this time, shucks, maybe next year.

I'm just not seeing how DVC will get out of this unscathed. At best it's a huge PR fiasco; at worst I can see a class action suit in the works. This has caused a value loss for a lot of ownership interests.

I doubt any of these things, the worst they're going to get is likely some that are ticked because what they use went up, very unlikely to be even a mild PR issue in the big scheme of things. If you see it on national news, let me know. Any lawyer who looks at this will drop it like a hot potato simply because it's clearly written in the rules that not only can they, but they have the responsibility to do so if demand is out of balance. You can bet DVC can easily produce documentation to justify both the need and method. The only issue one can quibble with is the timing which may speak to the quality of the current middle and upper management (taken with other recent issues) but not the legal rights or responsibilities. You can also bet that more than one person has already been raked over the coals for this getting out just after BLT sales were started.

 

[Dean]

Dean: Yes, I know DVC and DVD are legally different but they are still Disney and do work together.

I guess that's the rub. Technically they are different and I think they work together less than you think which may be why I see this differently than most. Have a great weekend.

 

[lisareniff]

Maybe you should listen to me more and to the salespeople less. ....

I have found listening to you and other knowledgeable posters to be one of my best sources of understanding. The guides? I wish I had a better tolerance for reading legalese.

Thanks for your years of help.

 

[BeccaG]

It's the defending emotion as having substance that really gets me shaking my head. As I said, this change will affect me negatively as well, probably more than most. My usual December reservations will be approximately 70 points more than they would have been under the current chart.

And that I can 100% agree with, and I am sorry your plans are getting "messed" with too!

 

[arielfan]

It's says on the DVD with Casey that your points will never change for as long as you own!!! So how can they change the points???

 

[lugnut33]

I'm sure some did but if you read my take on timeshare sales staff you'll know that you should take anything they say with a grain of salt the size of a HUMMER. DVC's are better than most but their job is to sell. Truthfully, it's unlikely they knew this was coming, they're usually the last to know such things and we often know them here before they do. They may have known it was being worked on but wouldn't have known enough specifics to make any changes in their suggestions. I wouldn't be upset with them due to timing. IF they suggested to buy exactly the amount of points with no cushion for a smaller unit or less than a full week without a warning, I'd look for a new guide even if this had not happened because I wouldn't think they were doing a good job, period.

Maybe you should listen to me more and to the salespeople less. At some point the buyer has to take responsibility to understand the product and read the literature and to remember that verbal representations are not binding. Basically plan for the worst scenarios.

And if you had read better you'd note that I said "even if the sales staff didn't know, somebody surely did". That somebody would be higher-ups, or do you think they decided to do this in a day? I also think people here are mad with those higher-ups, not so much the sales staff because they realize that they are clueless.

And maybe at some point DVC/Disney needs to take some responsibility also? Why change the point system so close to the booking window opening? Why allow low point sales to go on at BLT/AKV? Why change the min. add on just before his comes down? Why bungle the announcement?

I honestly believe that had they announced this back in the fall of 08 with the implementation date of 2010 and given the real reasons for it (to get people to stay longer and more evenly utilize the total points), then I think it would have been better received. People could have adjusted to it better. It would be like the IRS coming out right now saying, "OK, we've decided to increase everyone's tax by 10%". Of course it's legal, but not right and it would p.o. a bunch of people.

 

[BroganMc]

Be careful because the other approach they can take is to change around the seasons by moving say early Dec to a higher season and lowering something else. I'm a little surprised they didn't this time, shucks, maybe next year.

The very reason early December was so popular with members was the lower point costs. Pushing it to a higher season negates that incentive and then you have the effect of fewer members seeing it as time worthy to go. Demand drops and moves to another time of year.

So then what do we get? Another changed point chart, until demand rolls to a different structure and another changed chart. Eventually it becomes the timeshare of the rolling requirements.

I doubt any of these things, the worst they're going to get is likely some that are ticked because what they use went up, very unlikely to be even a mild PR issue in the big scheme of things. If you see it on national news, let me know.

You know as well as I that timeshares (or sales of any kind) exist on the person-to-person recommendations. That's the PR I'm talking about. How likely do you think people are to recommend DVC over say Marriott with this change? In my case, I know if I recommend someone buy a weekly ownership at Marriott during the summer season, they will be getting that week for the life of the contract. But if I can no longer say that about DVC. Any weekly summer ownership has now just gone up in point price and therefore ownerships purchased before decreased in value. In other words, a week is still a week at Marriott but a week at DVC is now 6 days.

Look closely at those charts again. I'm finding it hard to see how it all balances out to the same allocation. SSR shows increases that far outweigh any point drops throughout the year.

You can also bet that more than one person has already been raked over the coals for this getting out just after BLT sales were started.

What?! BLT sales have been going for months. The problem is that these charts have been released TOO LATE for any new buyers to adjust. Bookings for Jan 1, 2010 begin Monday. They absolutely had to release these charts now. And they've done so one week AFTER changing the minimum point add-on for BLT from 25 to 100. If they desired to be fair and honest with members, they would have released these charts well before the Jan 15 deadline. They've been sitting on this information because they know it would adversely affect some members and then forced them into spending more for add-ons. It's a cheesy flam-flam operation.

Dean I know you know alot about timeshares in general but I think you're missing the extent to how this affects individual members. Demand was definitely higher in the periods adjusted but the way it was addressed has significantly devalued ownership for a lot of people. And those are the ones who will hurt DVC's PR the most. Whether it appears in the national media is immaterial. Whether DVC sales in the next quarter veer sharply and we see more resales and less friendshare sales, that's the judge.

 

[AUTigerFan]

The very reason early December was so popular with members was the lower point costs. Pushing it to a higher season negates that incentive and then you have the effect of fewer members seeing it as time worthy to go. Demand drops and moves to another time of year.

So then what do we get? Another changed point chart, until demand rolls to a different structure and another changed chart. Eventually it becomes the timeshare of the rolling requirements.
\Quote]

I think that DVC needs to get the point charts right to optimize occupancy, especially as the number of members increase. However, the stability of the system is important as well. Just like the stock market craves stability and hates uncertainty (I admit this is oversimplified), DVC needs a stable points chart to sell to new members. If DVC gets into the position where they have to adjust more often, I believe customers won't be as willing to buy. When I bought, I knew that there was the possibility of reallocation, but I never dreamed it would be this drastic. I feel there are a lot of people with me on that as well. I will adjust to this change, and will continue to vacation at Disney. But if every few years the charts change, I will probably get fed up and sell.

 

[Inkmahm]

so she shouldn't use the term "gouge" but you can miscorrectly state that DVC "changed the rules?" OK.


Don't overstate my words, I didn't say SUn-THurs "Cruelly" took advantage. But they DID take advantage of the disproportionate system. Not saying it wasn't their right to do so, or that it was "cruel" just stating a fact. If there wasn't an advantage in staying Sun-thurs to be had, I don't think there would be such an uproar on a 54 page and counting thread.........

Thank you.

 

[ashbradnmom]

Oh....how I have often wished my job and hours would have allowed this over the years.....




Montgomery County here ! So we're practically neighbors. But I've seen drastic differences from one school district to the next. My kids used to be in Catholic school and they seemed more understanding about absences. And no apologies needed.....there are just so many variables besides just missing school, that I don't want to clog up this thread with. But let it suffice that aside from the fact, vacationing in slow season is not only not a choice, it's not even a remote option for us. I have one in college and for every 3 classes they miss, they drop 1 letter grade as per almost every professor. When you're on a partial scholarship, this is not an option. I just couldn't get into all the details when I first posted.......but trust me on this......and no hard feelings dd08.....

I meant no disrespect by any of what i posted. I just think that if you want to pull your kids out for a couple of days you should be able to. If teachers can get subs when they miss a day(and alot of them do quite often where i live) then they should get punished as well. If they miss a certain amount of days then they should loose pay or something along that line but that is not how it works whrere i live.

And again i mean no disrespect to anyone we are all Disney lovers that is why we bought in the first place

 

[jamstew]

I meant no disrespect by any of what i posted. I just think that if you want to pull your kids out for a couple of days you should be able to.

And you can do that if you live in a district that has liberal absentee policies. If one wants the right to pull their kids out of school for whatever reason, they should investigate the district's attendance policies. If being able to take off during the school year is an important consideration, I suppose they can choose to live somewhere else.

We chose the school district where my kids went to school because it was the best in the area and had the lowest school taxes. It would never have occurred to me to make that choice based on whether or not I could pull them out of school for a vacation. Public schools (at least in Texas) are controlled by local school boards, members of which are elected by residents of that district. Those Boards must follow State and Federal guidelines and may adopt more stringent policies of their own. If you don't like the school's local policies, go to a school board meeting and present an alternative. I've done it quite a few times

 

[Megsmachine]

I meant no disrespect by any of what i posted. I just think that if you want to pull your kids out for a couple of days you should be able to. If teachers can get subs when they miss a day(and alot of them do quite often where i live) then they should get punished as well. If they miss a certain amount of days then they should loose pay or something along that line but that is not how it works whrere i live.

And again i mean no disrespect to anyone we are all Disney lovers that is why we bought in the first place

The bolded portion makes no sense whatsoever. Apples and oranges.

 

[princessvacg]

How much longer until we see this message:

In order to make vacation reservations easier for our members, DVC will be changing to 7 day vacations only. Booking will begin on Saturday and extend to the following Saturday. On the four day of your stay, you will have your towels refreshed, trash emptied and toiletries renewed. We feel this will make planning and scheduling your vacations much easier. These changes will allow housekeeping to schedule all full cleaning on Saturdays once guests have checked out and prior to newly scheduled arrivals. In addition to making this easier for our members, we expect to have some cost savings from the changes in housekeeping.

To assist with scheduling your vacations, MS will be open longer hours on Thursday and Fridays. However, they will be closed Monday through Wednesday.

Is this for real?????

 

[kikiq]

Maybe you should listen to me more and to the salespeople less. At some point the buyer has to take responsibility to understand the product and read the literature and to remember that verbal representations are not binding. Basically plan for the worst scenarios.

Actually, I found DIS the week after I first saw the presentation and initially I thought your posts were so "hard nosed" BUT then realized there was a reason we didn't ever want a timeshare, and just because this was Disney was no reason to change our mind. Rereading your posts, your advice was solid and not based on the emotion of "owning a bit of the magic". Because of you and several other DIS folks, we didn't take the "bait" when offered additional incentives, but went on our "expensive" WDW vacation at the Poly (when we could have had a "free" DVC vacation on DP). We had a list going back to our guide and she was very patient with us explaining the points and reworking the points we needed. We did finally buy enough points planning for different scenarios, not just one. Thank you for the straight forward answers and time share information you share with us.