Disney to cancel FPs if room is cancelled

[jlundeen]

Kind of? There aren’t really any major differences in booking rules with a TA and doing it yourself.

well, I think they do have the ability to put a room reservation on hold for 24 hours for you and, as far as I know, we cannot do that ourselves by booking it directly through Disney. Maybe we can, but I just have never come across it. But, to stay on topic, I would think that if any travel agent was using strategies that were not part of booking rules of the organization they are booking, that it would be looked on unfavorably, and there may be consequences. Maybe I'm just naive, but that's the way I assumed it always worked.

 

[DisBuckMan]

Great discussion going on. I did want to comment on the prevalence of "gaming the system" attitudes.
-If someone books a reservation and then cancels it to gain the 60 day fp window, that was 'gaming the system' and Disney was right to end the practice.
-If someone books a reservation and pays for it / keeps it for one night and gets a 60 fp advantage, that is not 'gaming the system.' That reservation was legitimate and that person deserves the same rights as any other paying customer. To suggest otherwise makes no sense.

I think what bothers me most about the somewhat miserly satisfaction of posters being excited about Disney making their system more complicated, is that $$$ is at the heart of it.

-If someone can only afford to stay on property for a night or two in a value resort - is it really considerate of those who can afford to stay for 14 days onsite to rub their hands with glee that they get more benefits than the one who could only afford one night? Consider for a moment the single mother who saved up for a decade for this trip and just books that one night because it's all she can afford, and she'd really love for her children to get a few fp's? Now she's stuck with having to book only a few of her fp's at 60 days, and save the rest for 30. Which is fine. But, it seems pretty heartless to revel in her misfortune for my own benefit.

-To the 'umbrella policy' naysayers: I don't understand why it is so 'wrong' for Disney to allow, for example, a set of Grandparents who live in Orlando to be able to go on the same rides / fp's with their grandkids who are staying onsite and they only see once every 5 years. A big part of Disney's revenue is large family / friend units gathering. Why does it bother you so much that Disney is trying to create a smooth guest experience for these families? It's not a 'loophole' or 'gaming the system.' It's excellent guest relations. My local golf and country club allows members to bring guests all the time - who receive the same perks as members. So what? It's good business for them.

In sum, I guess I'd just like to know where the 'gaming the system' sentiment starts and ends. When my family gets free water at QS instead of paying $5 for a bottle of water, are we 'gaming the system' because we didn't pay for it and other guests aren't 'in the know' enough to know it's an option? Are we 'gaming the system' when we pack our own snacks or lunch because other guests are paying for their meals and didn't know bringing in their own food was an option? What about getting a photopass photographer to take pictures of you with your own camera instead of paying for a photopass package? Ask any photopass photographer and they'll tell you it's totally acceptable practice. In fact, it was a photopass photographer who SUGGESTED our family do this. It's not 'gaming the system.' It's being fiscally intelligent. I would put forth that these types of great tips are what the Disboards are all about. We shouldn't be asking the moderators to cease all discussion about something we personally think is 'gaming the system,' especially if it really isn't.

If Disney has not clearly stated a policy to the contrary, you are not gaming the system. To the contrary, you are most likely a guest who is not a millionaire and is trying to find ways that your family can enjoy Disney World without becoming bankrupt.

What about the family of 4 who saved up for 10 years to go to Disney, who paid to stay in Disney resorts to get the benefits, but isn't able to get the fastpasses they want due to folks abusing the loopholes you stated above?

Quote/link the DISNEY policy where 7 day rolling fastpasses are/were allowed.

Quote/link the DISNEY policy where it allows for "umbrella" friends and family members getting fastpasses.

Disney does and has had a clearly stated policy regarding only ONSITE guests getting 60 fp privileges. They've simply not been good about enforcing it...until now.

I haven't seen one single person complaining about anyone making a one night reservation and keeping it to get 60 day fp privileges. But, that privilege covers check in and check out day now....like it's supposed to be. Not an entire week for those who choose to stay offsite.

From looking back at some of your posts on other threads, I'm not surprised you're upset.

As I said in a previous post...Don't be mad about Disney enforcing its own policies/closing loopholes...be happy for the times in the past your were able to exploit them.

 

[rteetz]

well, I think they do have the ability to put a room reservation on hold for 24 hours for you and, as far as I know, we cannot do that ourselves by booking it directly through Disney. Maybe we can, but I just have never come across it. But, to stay on topic, I would think that if any travel agent was using strategies that were not part of booking rules of the organization they are booking, that it would be looked on unfavorably, and there may be consequences. Maybe I'm just naive, but that's the way I assumed it always worked.

Yes that is something they can do.

 

[DavidNYC]

Grandma/grandpa book a week at Pop and put all the kids/grandkids up in a house in Windsor Hills. It is NOT Disney’s intention for all those people to have 60+ length of stay FP’s. It’s just another loophole like all the others.

How about the family of 8 who stay onsite and have 1 local grandparent join them? I agree with the poster above that is dismayed at the attitude that any possible Disney concession is automatically looked at in the worse possible light. Your concern can be addressed by limiting number of offsite guests in a FP group. But saying if you bring grandma with you she delays the FP window for the other 8 seems harsh.

What I think this really is unfortunately is the first step of them further monetizing the FP system like the club level option. I’d bet anything by then end of 2019 we see several other purchase options for FP. I always thought Disney wouldn’t do that as it’s so against the spirit of what it used to be but my thinking has shifted.

 

[Boski]

If Disney has not clearly stated a policy to the contrary, you are not gaming the system. To the contrary, you are most likely a guest who is not a millionaire and is trying to find ways that your family can enjoy Disney World without becoming bankrupt.

A lot of the policies were/are clearly stated, they were just never enforced. And people abused the fact that they were never enforced for their benefit at the expense of those who followed the rules.

 

[SouthFayetteFan]

Ok we get it. Different people consider different things to be “loopholes” or whatever. Guess what...neither of you are going to change the other side’s opinion! Can we stop arguing over this and just wait for more hard data. At this point we have no proof of an FPs getting cancelled. That’s why I’m still following this thread. I’m not here to a) be educated in loopholes OR b) hear others demonize those that apparently used these loopholes.

And I guess I’m really following this thread as a lover of split stays who is hoping that Disney reverses course on an extremely unfortunate decision there.

 

[crvetter]

How about the family of 8 who stay onsite and have 1 local grandparent join them? I agree with the poster above that is dismayed at the attitude that any possible Disney concession is automatically looked at in the worse possible light. Your concern can be addressed by limiting number of offsite guests in a FP group. But saying if you bring grandma with you she delays the FP window for the other 8 seems harsh.

What I think this really is unfortunately is the first step of them further monetizing the FP system like the club level option. I’d bet anything by then end of 2019 we see several other purchase options for FP. I always thought Disney wouldn’t do that as it’s so against the spirit of what it used to be but my thinking has shifted.

I can sympathize with this hypothetical though getting a room setup that might sleep 9 or 10 in this case and add her to the reservation would be perfectly acceptable. It guarantees that no one is abusing the system. I don’t think it is to lead to a massive monotization of the system. Might have been to avoid it by reducing strain.

 

[DavidNYC]

I can sympathize with this hypothetical though getting a room setup that might sleep 9 or 10 in this case and add her to the reservation would be perfectly acceptable. It guarantees that no one is abusing the system. I don’t think it is to lead to a massive monotization of the system. Might have been to avoid it by reducing strain.

LOL - waiting for posts that talk about how adding someone to your room that isn’t actually staying there is the next loophole to be cracked down on (or the soon to be created business of selling the remaining room capacity on your reservation!). Loopholes all around - question always will be where Disney draws the line and says the benefit to closing it doesn’t outweigh the inconvenience causes to others!

 

[DisBuckMan]

And 30 days advance is an off-site perk. Dropping FP at 10 days out is not affording those that benefit that they have as well. They should change the resort room policy to be 30 days or to clearly state upfront that cancellations between 30 and 5 days will forfeit FP that are booked. Not at the time the cancellation is being done - but as a term of booking.

Further - I also think that on any night you have a onsite reservation - you should be able to keep the FP you made for them.

Let Disney start the ‘crackdown’ by stopping the 60 day rolling wave and cancelling FP for rooms/packages cancelled between 60 and 30 days. There are too many legitimate reasons for changes to reservations that happen to jump into all of this.

What about reservations that are cancelled at 28 days...or 20 days? Most folks who are exploiting the loopholes aren't booking entire packages...they're booking room only. Therefore, they have until 5 days before their trip to cancel without penalty.

 

[crvetter]

LOL - waiting for posts that talk about how adding someone to your room that isn’t actually staying there is the next loophole to be cracked down on (or the soon to be created business of selling the remaining room capacity on your reservation!). Loopholes all around - question always will be where Disney draws the line and says the benefit to closing it doesn’t outweigh the inconvenience causes to others!

Well you pay per adult (past 2) so not a loop hole. They have fully paid for their right. It’s the same argument for throwaway rooms (which I’m not for but I do find hard to argue against when used for check in to check out day privileges for fastpass only). I was merely showing that a scenario as you suggested Disney has a path to rectify. But you are right I can see it being abused.

Also selling your extra capacity gives them access to your room. So that’s putting a lot of trust in someone that doesn’t have familial or friendly relations with you. Which would be the appropriate people to do this with (someone that lives locally).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As for your water statement Disney Park Moms (an official Disney sure) has said people can get the water at QS so it is free information: https://disneyparksmomspanel.disney...r-bottle-refill-stations-similar-ones-366785/

As for the photopass photographers Disney Parks Moms have covered this: https://disneyparksmomspanel.disney...raphers-picture-own-camera-theirs-know-58631/

So these three items aren’t really the same to compare as loopholes like the fastpass ones. A loophole is specifically finding a way to manipulate the rules for an advantage. These three items are explicitly allowed so not a loophole.

Disney Parks Mom Panel are not employees of Disney; they are contractors. And sometimes they do have inaccurate information.

Here's Disney's fine print:



Disney is very clear that what the Disney Parks Mom Panel says is neither Disney's official word nor even monitored by Disney before posting the information.

If you go to Disney's website there is no mention of free water available at Quick Service locations. There is no mention that on occasion PhotoPass photographers will take your photo with your own phone. When we went to Universal a TM there offered very nicely without us asking (we were posing for a selfie) if he wanted us to take a photo of us. That's not listed on Universal's website either that they would do that on occasion. And I do actually remember a poster on a random thread who was all up in arms about people getting courtesy cups rather than paying for water bottles. But take this for what you will I had no idea you could get courtsey cups until the DIS. That Parks blog you linked was well after I'd had gone to Disney though I'm sure there are a multitude of other random found somewhere on the internet Disne Parks Mom Panel Q & A's about it. Forgive me for not going and doing a black hole search for that lol.

 

[jlundeen]

well, I'm just so amazed at so many people who just seem to want black and white answers here, when there are so many shades of grey. I think if they tried to cover every single situation in a way that would absolutely rule out anybody abusing loopholes, none of us could afford our stay at Disney! I know I couldn't!

I think Disney's bottom line is that they want guests to have a good time and want to return. (Not only dollars for this trip but future dollars.). Trying to plug every single possibility that someone could possibly get something that someone else doesn't know about, is just insane. I don't know any system that can possibly successfully do that.

You cannot legislate ethics, what is acceptable to one person, may not be acceptable to another. You can choose to believe what you believe. That cannot be regulated.

And remember how many application issues are caused every time ANY kind of a coding change is implemented. I think the last time I was trying to book fast passes for a trip, the application was down for days. Lots and lots of unhappy people there!

 

[Branderson610]

I am just thankful that I can afford to take my daughter to Disney. If there isn't a fast pass I want available, I can usually get it by checking fps up until our trip. I work in a title 1 school, with kids who live in poverty. Some of the 1st world problems and elitism on this post make me laugh. I can guarantee a single mom saving to take her kids to Disney is not worrying about fp's she is just happy that she was able to provide this opportunity to her kids.

 

[Boski]

Ok we get it. Different people consider different things to be “loopholes” or whatever. Guess what...neither of you are going to change the other side’s opinion! Can we stop arguing over this and just wait for more hard data. At this point we have no proof of an FPs getting cancelled. That’s why I’m still following this thread. I’m not here to a) be educated in loopholes OR b) hear others demonize those that apparently used these loopholes.

And I guess I’m really following this thread as a lover of split stays who is hoping that Disney reverses course on an extremely unfortunate decision there.

Well most people feel a big reason for this move is to eliminate loopholes so the discussion is relevant. Not to mention the fact that most of the DIS threads that discuss loopholes "do not allow to debate if the loophole is allowed", so yea I for one am really happy this thread allows a open discussion about these issues. You can always ignore all of us who are participating in that part of the discussion.

 

[crvetter]

Disney Parks Mom Panel are not employees of Disney; they are contractors. And sometimes they do have inaccurate information.

Here's Disney's fine print:

View attachment 384541

Disney is very clear that what the Disney Parks Mom Panel says is neither Disney's official word nor even monitored by Disney before posting the information.

If you go to Disney's website there is no mention of free water available at Quick Service locations. There is no mention that on occasion PhotoPass photographers will take your photo with your own phone. When we went to Universal a TM there offered very nicely without us asking (we were posing for a selfie) if he wanted us to take a photo of us. That's not listed on Universal's website either that they would do that on occasion. And I do actually remember a poster on a random thread who was all up in arms about people getting courtesy cups rather than paying for water bottles. But take this for what you will I had no idea you could get courtsey cups until the DIS. That Parks blog you linked was well after I'd had gone to Disney though I'm sure there are a multitude of other random found somewhere on the internet Disne Parks Mom Panel Q & A's about it. Forgive me for not going and doing a black hole search for that lol.

The point I was making was that the information that Disney does this is readily available. When you ask a CM for something you are inherently asking permission. The fastpass loopholes are different in that regard to the water and the photos. No CM is being asked so inherent permission is not being given to use the loopholes.

 

[Marionnette]

Has anyone tried a split stay recently (since yesterday)? Some other threads are claiming it worked for them. I hope it was a glitch that was fixed.

As of this morning, the FPs that I made with a DVC split stay for late April are still in the MDE account. The DVC reservations were made after this thread was resurrected (i.e. I made them yesterday afternoon). The FPs were made for only the second part of the split, which was beyond the 60-day FP window for that stay.

But it's probably my post on the DVC forum that you're referencing.

 

[Wish Upon A Starbucks]

Well most people feel a big reason for this move is to eliminate loopholes so the discussion is relevant. Not to mention the fact that most of the DIS threads that discuss loopholes "do not allow to debate if the loophole is allowed", so yea I for one am really happy this thread allows a open discussion about these issues. You can always ignore all of us who are participating in that part of the discussion.

I just read through four pages of what ifs and hypothetical nothingness. I would prefer sticking to factual reports. Maybe we need two threads, one to report facts and one to debate? It’s hard to “ignore” the other non factual discussions when that accounts for 98% of the thread.

 

[jlundeen]

One more thought, and then I'll be quiet - at least for awhile.

Those who want a level playing field for all -

I totally understand. I can't tell you the times that I was not able to use my favorite Parade viewing or Illuminations viewing spot due to a "private party". Or how about when a park closes early because of a "private party" - is there any difference between the price that we all pay to visit that park that day, or any other day where there are "normal" hours? And how about those days when there are the Halloween or Christmas parties? Same price to get in the gates those days even with fewer hours.

Why are there no complaints of inequality in those cases.... and many many others...... Disney is a huge corporation, and no one here can begin to even suggest that we can know Disney's reasoning or "intent" on anything....

 

[Spaceguy55]

I just read through four pages of what ifs and hypothetical nothingness. I would prefer sticking to factual reports. Maybe we need two threads, one to report facts and one to debate? It’s hard to “ignore” the other non factual discussions when that accounts for 98% of the thread.

Yes a separate sticky thread much like the dog thread, just have real experiences without comment or speculation

 

[Gentry2004]

One more thought, and then I'll be quiet - at least for awhile.

Those who want a level playing field for all -

I totally understand. I can't tell you the times that I was not able to use my favorite Parade viewing or Illuminations viewing spot due to a "private party". Or how about when a park closes early because of a "private party" - is there any difference between the price that we all pay to visit that park that day, or any other day where there are "normal" hours? And how about those days when there are the Halloween or Christmas parties? Same price to get in the gates those days even with fewer hours.

Why are there no complaints of inequality in those cases.... and many many others...... Disney is a huge corporation, and no one here can begin to even suggest that we can know Disney's reasoning or "intent" on anything....

I think lots of people find the things you listed unfair, myself included.