Disney steps up efforts to bring 'Avengers' to parks

[lockedoutlogic]

I too love Marvel, and I think putting in a unique, one of a kind shop would be a great way to expose people to a product line that they might never would before. And as I stated earlier, create truly unique items available only there, creating a destination for Marvel/Comics fans.

On a different note, I wonder how long it'll be before Disney announces a Marvel themed resort? Prob not in WDW, but somewhere...

First,

Disney no longer has any interest in producing "unique, one of a kind items only available there"

It cuts into the bottom line to NOT have them produced en masse in SE Asia and shipped to any retailer willing to sell them...the most you'll see now are Walmart-target-amazon-toyrus "exclusives"...which are a contradiction in terms because they are sold by the biggest sellers to anyone, anywhere.

If disney were to sell items ONLY at a park or resort area...then they know a high priced secondary market would immediately pop up - where their items are flipped at a much higher price...which they don't like either.

Disney's marketing scheme is 100% saturation selling...has been for two decades and is unlikely ever to change.

Second, a marvel resort would be cool...but it is never going to happen...much too tilted to Y chromosome and therefore not a good track on the longterm scale.

The avengers is a huge success and a good movie...but after seeing it - I got what I thought i would. It's still a boy movie without much debate. Spiderman is no doubt to be the same...as well as ironman 3, Thor 2, hulk 5, xmen 15, and on and on

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I worked as a Concierge CM , a job where you spend most of your time giving directions and explaining transportation, and not a single person ever asked what Disney transportation they should take to Harry Potter. You are way off with that

I worked managing "concierge CMs"

Its not relevant to this thread...but please (pretty please?) don't portray concierge at WDW to be anything big time.

I appreciate and respect all CMs who do and have done fantastic work at WDW...but you and I know that there isn't much of a distinction based on this title.

I would say that "guest services" is a good description...as there are thousands across WDW that do the same thing, more or less, and have similar experience and skill sets.

Sorry if I'm off based...seemed to be crossing into the realm of arrogance

 

[Andy713]

First,

Disney no longer has any interest in producing "unique, one of a kind items only available there"

It cuts into the bottom line to NOT have them produced en masse in SE Asia and shipped to any retailer willing to sell them...the most you'll see now are Walmart-target-amazon-toyrus "exclusives"...which are a contradiction in terms because they are sold by the biggest sellers to anyone, anywhere.

If disney were to sell items ONLY at a park or resort area...then they know a high priced secondary market would immediately pop up - where their items are flipped at a much higher price...which they don't like either.

Disney's marketing scheme is 100% saturation selling...has been for two decades and is unlikely ever to change.

Second, a marvel resort would be cool...but it is never going to happen...much too tilted to Y chromosome and therefore not a good track on the longterm scale.

The avengers is a huge success and a good movie...but after seeing it - I got what I thought i would. It's still a boy movie without much debate. Spiderman is no doubt to be the same...as well as ironman 3, Thor 2, hulk 5, xmen 15, and on and on

I guess what I was trying to say was create unique items to compliment/enhance all of the "common" things found elsewhere, plus make the store itself unique, it's design, layout, whatever. I totally get what Disney does and why, it's just wishful thinking on my part, which makes this sort of thing fun. As a kid, what I wanted for Christmas and what I actually got were two different things, but it's still fun to wish.

As for Marvel being male dominated, yes I suppose it is, however, the male-female ratio in that "world" is somewhat different from when I was 12-15 to now. I see a lot more female interest in the genre than in years before. I haven't any data on this, just personal observations. Maybe not a full sized, dedicated resort, but perhaps part of a larger effort, or themed rooms within an existing resort..?

 

[dairylives]

Oh boy...

I worked managing "concierge CMs"

Now we can really have some fun. Its not relevant to this thread...but please (pretty please?) don't portray concierge at WDW to be anything big time.

I appreciate and respect all CMs who do and have done fantastic work at WDW...but you and I know that there isn't much of a distinction based on this title.

I would say that "guest services" is a good description...as there are thousands across WDW that do the same thing, more or less, and have similar experience and skill sets.

Sorry if I'm off based...seemed to be crossing into the realm of arrogance

Here's a tip: if you don't want to be seen as arrogant, don't start your comments with "oh boy..." and "now we can really have some fun".

I never insinuated i was any sort of big shot, i simply said us in resorts, especially concierge ( who deal with transportation questions non-stop) CMs keep informed of what is going on in the parks and resorts, and that includes frequently asked questions.

Regardless, you seem to have a very poor grasp of what a concierge CM at a deluxe resort does, so explaining this to you might fall upon deaf ears. If you'd like to "have some fun", by all means, let's hear it. I'm sure you know my (old) job better than I.


In interest of avoiding further derailment, maybe you should just PM me your response. Probably for the best.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Here's a tip: if you don't want to be seen as arrogant, don't start your comments with "oh boy..." and "now we can really have some fun".

I never insinuated i was any sort of big shot, i simply said us in resorts, especially concierge ( who deal with transportation questions non-stop) CMs keep informed of what is going on in the parks and resorts, and that includes frequently asked questions.

Regardless, you seem to have a very poor grasp of what a concierge CM at a deluxe resort does, so explaining this to you might fall upon deaf ears. If you'd like to "have some fun", by all means, let's hear it. I'm sure you know my (old) job better than I.

You know what, you're right...i have removed those portions of the post as a courtesy.

To me they were playfull...and indeed that was the intent...but i see that tone is a repeated problem here. If you could take a moment to get past the tone - as everyone has their own - then i was trying to tell your statement could be construed as arrogant. Which it did.

My point was not to tell you what concierge "did" or "didn't" do...it was to acknowledge that using "concierge" was a name drop tactic that held little water. Because as you know full well that beyond the lounge absolutely nothing goes on at the "level" that would guarantee greater skill, service, or insight. And that's what you have implied. Each of the eight spots are slightly different - but generally speaking their function and privileges are very limited. My opinion and experience. But, with all do respect, I know EXACTLY what a "concierge" does and what Disney "concierge" doesn't do...so there's a tip back.

But I am confused as to how there seems to be politeness lessons on one hand, while the other dishes out snit....

perhaps we need not judge each other? This seems silly...for my part i would rather avoid all the lecturing and quips in this particular case.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I guess what I was trying to say was create unique items to compliment/enhance all of the "common" things found elsewhere, plus make the store itself unique, it's design, layout, whatever. I totally get what Disney does and why, it's just wishful thinking on my part, which makes this sort of thing fun. As a kid, what I wanted for Christmas and what I actually got were two different things, but it's still fun to wish.

As for Marvel being male dominated, yes I suppose it is, however, the male-female ratio in that "world" is somewhat different from when I was 12-15 to now. I see a lot more female interest in the genre than in years before. I haven't any data on this, just personal observations. Maybe not a full sized, dedicated resort, but perhaps part of a larger effort, or themed rooms within an existing resort..?

Well, this marvel thing is still relatively new...so who knows what they may or may not do. But i don't see them trying to build "destination" stores as part of the franchise. If anything, they have all but abandoned that practice...as the main stores at Disney resort locations now packed mass produced stuff that is not unique in anyway...and that has even trickled down now to the "specialty" kiosk level - buy and large.

I think that marvel was never really intended to be "incorporated" into the disney "brand" though...and i'm actually surprised they even experiement with selling spidey toys in the parks to this point.

I think Disney's "future" as they perceive it is to amass established IP and collect behind the scenes licensing, revenues, and product fees associated with media and product sales. I also think that's basically disney corporate suicide...but whatever.

the "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" approach. While maybe not maximizing the take on their products...they avoid basically all overhead costs...which is a way of having more guaranteed return on their characters without cost deductions.

 

[Andy713]

Well, this marvel thing is still relatively new...so who knows what they may or may not do. But i don't see them trying to build "destination" stores as part of the franchise. If anything, they have all but abandoned that practice...as the main stores at Disney resort locations now packed mass produced stuff that is not unique in anyway...and that has even trickled down now to the "specialty" kiosk level - buy and large.

I think that marvel was never really intended to be "incorporated" into the disney "brand" though...and i'm actually surprised they even experiement with selling spidey toys in the parks to this point.

I think Disney's "future" as they perceive it is to amass established IP and collect behind the scenes licensing, revenues, and product fees associated with media and product sales. I also think that's basically disney corporate suicide...but whatever.

the "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" approach. While maybe not maximizing the take on their products...they avoid basically all overhead costs...which is a way of having more guaranteed return on their characters without cost deductions.

I agree, Disney's current approach seems counter productive especially when viewed against what used to be their business model. But I'm not saying what they will do or should do, just what I'd like to see. Yes, I'm a fan and yes I may tend to oversimplify the issues, but that's really all I can do.

Marvel and the whole pop culture popularity it's currently enjoying is quite new, so the possibilities are varied. Handled carefully and at the same time, not over saturating the market, who knows, it may be what Westerns were in the past.

Growing up, I'd never in a million years would've dreamed of Disney owning Marvel Comics. So this "dream team" if you will, has conjured up a thousand what if scenarios in my mind, so I like sharing/expressing some of the more reasonable ones. Will they ever happen? Who knows, but like I said, I'd never thought the Mouse and Iron Man would ever be part of the same corporate family.

 

[pilferk]

I think Disney's "future" as they perceive it is to amass established IP and collect behind the scenes licensing, revenues, and product fees associated with media and product sales. I also think that's basically disney corporate suicide...but whatever.

the "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" approach. While maybe not maximizing the take on their products...they avoid basically all overhead costs...which is a way of having more guaranteed return on their characters without cost deductions.

As a HUGE aside:

I don't think Disney is alone in that, either.

Content is becoming more and more valuable (or at least, it seems to be). It's seemingly a long term revenue generator and, once you cover the purchase price, it's one with no overhead (as you point out). As more and more mediums become available to the consumer to deliver content, and the almost non-stop consumption of content moves forward....the more content you control, the more money it looks like you're going to make. The providers are basically beholden to you...or they have no content to provide (and no way to generate revenue).

Witness Netflix (who almost slit their own throats) and the steps they've taken to make sure they can afford the increased content fees they know are coming (and, in some cases, have already come) for their digital streaming. They almost toppled their entire business based on the FEAR of the increases that were coming...in some cases years before they actually materialized. I'm all for long term planning...but those increases actually seemed to have Netflix leadership buying new undergarments. And while some of it was justified, their LEVEL of fear seems to be a closet indicator, here.

Many providers signed cut rate deals with content owners, for streaming (and even broadcasting) content. Those deals are coming due pretty quickly..and the people controlling the content are banking on increasing their revenue. Providers are either going to pay, or shed subscribers in droves (or both, if you're Netflix and your midas touch quickly turns to a cowpie touch).

I'm not sure it's the way I want to see the Mouse go, either. But I think it's almost inevitable that they, at least, MOVE toward it. Hopefully they'll find that NEW IP generation is worth the risk involved. We'll see.

 

[yitbos96bb]

In perpetuity, so long as Universal meets certain tenets (maintenance, marketing, and merchandising).

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312510008732/dex1057.htm

Now, Uni only has rights to specific characters and their "families" (ie: rogues gallery and all associated groups/memberships of those groups)..not the whole Marvel-verse. But they've got the current heavy hitters covered.

The contract is pretty much ironclad, there is no real "renewal" process, and (despite, I'm sure, Disney's best legal minds) no apparent "out" clause. Remember, Marvel signed this deal when they were coming out of bankruptcy. The terms definitely are very kind to Universal.

Disney would basically have to buy Universal out of the contract to get rights to those characters in Orlando. And they have zero leverage, right now, in the process. Which means Universal would ask for truckloads of money (think billion+)....which Disney would be, quite frankly, stupid to pay them.

Disney is getting a steady stream of income from Universal (licensing and merchandising). There is zero overhead, zero development costs, and zero material costs associated with that revenue stream....and zero risk. They just collect the checks.

It's hard to justify huge outlays of cash to your stockholders given the above scenario.

Is it possible? Sure.

Is it likely, any time in the near future? No.

If other characters rise to popularity (though comic fans tend to know when they're being bamboozled, and force fed something), they'd be fair game (provided they weren't members of the X-verse, Spidey realm, or Avengers pantheon). For example, if Ghost Rider had actually worked out...Disney could use him in Orlando. We haven't seen anything, for now, that would indicate there's anything like that in the pipeline at marvel, and typically it takes years to get a character into the mainstream pop culture conscious.

Is there anything on licensing costs? Are they fixed for all time? Do they go up n a fixed schedule? Can Disney set them?

 

[ThurlFan]

Hopefully they'll find that NEW IP generation is worth the risk involved. We'll see.

Better hope they don't have too many more John Carters up their sleeve...

 

[Metro West]

Is there anything on licensing costs? Are they fixed for all time? Do they go up n a fixed schedule? Can Disney set them?

I'm guessing there is something in the contract about how much those fees can go up in any given year or over an amount of time. I doubt Disney could set them at whatever they wanted. There would have to be some sort of control...but that's only a guess.

 

[AryaForQueen]

From CNBC:

Cant be in Orlando?!?!?!
But... Hollywood Studios would be PERFECT!
Darned Universal Studios

 

[Metro West]

Cant be in Orlando?!?!?!
But... Hollywood Studios would be PERFECT!
Darned Universal Studios

Universal had the Marvel characters wrapped up LONG before Disney ever thought of buying the company. Disney knew this would be an issue before buying Marvel.

 

[jimmy339]

I hope that Disney has some control over the fees, it seems that the most likely way to get the marvel characters is to make them too expensive however if thy keep doin huge record breaking films universal will pay it. I'd like to see the marvel characters come to WDW but not in any of the current parks as these are Mickeys parks and belong to Disney characters, I'd like to see a marvel park at WDW. They could maybe use this park for more intense thrill rides/roller coasters?

 

[DCTooTall]

Is there anything on licensing costs? Are they fixed for all time? Do they go up n a fixed schedule? Can Disney set them?

From what I remember seeing in the SEC filing, The rates increase annually. The increases are based upon general inflation with a recognized 3rd party index as the guide used to determine the percentage increase.

I hope that Disney has some control over the fees, it seems that the most likely way to get the marvel characters is to make them too expensive however if thy keep doin huge record breaking films universal will pay it. I'd like to see the marvel characters come to WDW but not in any of the current parks as these are Mickeys parks and belong to Disney characters, I'd like to see a marvel park at WDW. They could maybe use this park for more intense thrill rides/roller coasters?

Tell that to all the PIXAR characters who meet and have attractions in the current parks (3rd party characters who's films were distributed by Disney before being bought by Disney)... Or All the Lucas properties (Star Wars and Indy... who have no connection to Disney outside the parks)... Or The Twilight Zone... Or Aerosmith... Or even most of the films featured in the Great Movie ride (any of the scenes with the exception of Mary Poppins)... or Technically any of the featured players in the Hall of Presidents or American Adventure (Not sure any politician could be classified a Disney character.... Even if they get called a mickey mouse candidate)


My Point is that Disney has not limited themselves to just "Disney Characters" in any park until now, so why would they suddenly decide to start?

 

[Andy713]

From what I remember seeing in the SEC filing, The rates increase annually. The increases are based upon general inflation with a recognized 3rd party index as the guide used to determine the percentage increase.

Tell that to all the PIXAR characters who meet and have attractions in the current parks (3rd party characters who's films were distributed by Disney before being bought by Disney)... Or All the Lucas properties (Star Wars and Indy... who have no connection to Disney outside the parks)... Or The Twilight Zone... Or Aerosmith... Or even most of the films featured in the Great Movie ride (any of the scenes with the exception of Mary Poppins)... or Technically any of the featured players in the Hall of Presidents or American Adventure (Not sure any politician could be classified a Disney character.... Even if they get called a mickey mouse candidate)

My Point is that Disney has not limited themselves to just "Disney Characters" in any park until now, so why would they suddenly decide to start?[/QUOTE

I don't think I'd have a problem with a Marvel presence in DHS, as long as it's thematically consistent. Anywhere else, not so much. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Pixar etc. seem to "blend" quite well with the Hollywood thing. I'm guessing any Avengers or Iron Man attraction would be, theme wise, based on the movies. I'm wondering if some people's objections to any of these characters at Disney is the association they have with the comic BOOKS that they originally came from?

 

[Andy713]

Sorry for the messed up post. I'm tired...

 

[DCTooTall]

I don't think I'd have a problem with a Marvel presence in DHS, as long as it's thematically consistent. Anywhere else, not so much. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Pixar etc. seem to "blend" quite well with the Hollywood thing. I'm guessing any Avengers or Iron Man attraction would be, theme wise, based on the movies. I'm wondering if some people's objections to any of these characters at Disney is the association they have with the comic BOOKS that they originally came from?

True... Thematically a lot of those work in the MGM park... it was built originally as a working studio afterall. (Keep in mind though that Star Tours and an Indy ride are in Disneyland, so the same sort of 'Lucas Contamination" exists on the west coast in their 'Castle Park')

But What about all the Pixar that's infected every other park? Tomorrowland has almost been completely turned into Pixar-Land. (Hell... More pixar attractions than Pixar Place at least). And Then you've got the Pixar infestation at Animal Kingdom and EPCOT as well.

OH!!! And one very visable Non-Disney character that is all over the parks that I can't believe I missed..... POOH! The character is still owned by it's creator's trust, A.A. Milne. Disney has a pretty large license for the characters (now... didn't start as big), But Pooh has been walking around the MK and DL for decades now [including evil creepy Pooh with the red eyes], and now has his own ride and Character Breakfast. (His ride actually displacing previous attractions in both WDW and DL that could claim being much more of a Disney Creation.)

Sorry for the messed up post. I'm tired...

No problem. It happens.

 

[Broncobilly83]

Just returned from a trip to WDW and did not find Marvel merchandise anywhere on property. This looks like a change from my previous visit a couple of years ago where it was all over Future World, Tomorrowland, and DTD.

This post caught my attention as I too remember the parks (I think all four) having a wide array of Marvel items in the shops. Figures, shirts, hats, etc

Does anyone know why this changed from 2010 to now?

 

[pilferk]

Is there anything on licensing costs? Are they fixed for all time? Do they go up n a fixed schedule? Can Disney set them?

There is some adjustment of fees (but I think it might just be the minimum merchandising portion) adjusted based off inflation.

Other than that (which is in an additional filing), there doesn't look to be anything in the way of fee adjustments.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312510008732/dex1058.htm