Disney steps up efforts to bring 'Avengers' to parks

[fannatic]

Theme Park Insider confirmed today that the Transformers is the secret attraction being worked on at Universal Studios. Because they're in such a rush, it also pretty much confirms his other rumor that they have reached a deal with Disney over Marvel. One of the top people in Universal Creative said in December that they would not bring the Transformers to Orlando if Spider-Man was there. The rides are too similar. So, will D.C. or Gotham Island be the next Islands of Adventure expansion?

 

[tjkraz]

I must be confused. I thought you kept telling us that Spider Man would eventually be converted to Transformers since they are identical. Why would Universal spend millions to upgrade Spider Man and then--what--demolish it entirely (???) to build a clone elsewhere??

Sounds to me like someone simply changed their minds on the "they are too similar" aspect.

And why would Disney need to buy out the contract? Have you given up on the idea that it expires in a few years?

 

[DanBoris]

Theme Park Insider confirmed today that the Transformers is the secret attraction being worked on at Universal Studios. Because they're in such a rush, it also pretty much confirms his other rumor that they have reached a deal with Disney over Marvel. One of the top people in Universal Creative said in December that they would not bring the Transformers to Orlando if Spider-Man was there. The rides are too similar. So, will D.C. or Gotham Island be the next Islands of Adventure expansion?

Here is the quote from Theme Park Insider on Tranformers: "Universal hasn't announced either of these developments, but we've seen the blueprints of the new Harry Potter land, and the public building permits for the Soundstage 44 replacement are consistent with the size and layout of the Transformers show building, and we've heard from at least two sources in Orlando who tells us that it's Transformers. "

so this isn't any more confirmation then we already have on Transformers. All the evidence points to it, but still not confirmation.

The only thing I found recently on that site about the Marvel contract was just random speculation in a blog post from 6/18:

"Here's where I'm much less confident, but see an explanation that makes logical sense. What if Disney, flush with cash from Avengers and desperate to bring Marvel into its Orlando theme parks, made Universal a massive offer - so large that Universal couldn't afford to refuse? Universal would want Transformers at the Universal Orlando Resort to replace Spider-Man ASAP, even if that meant blowing up existing operational plans. "

 

[fannatic]

I don't know for sure that all of this is true, but it sounds logical. A few months ago I emailed Universal Florida and asked them when the Transformers will replace Spider-Man. They said it hadn't officially been announced so they didn't have all the details, but to watch for an announcement. I may have misinterpreted this to mean it would replace the current Spider-Man ride. While others say it's
the exact same ride layout, Theme Park Insider said they are different, that it would be cheaper to build a new building than to alter the other one. I'm sure someone can find the quote about what they said concerning this matter.

 

[KingK12]

From what we've seen it can be renewed at infinite-um meaning it may never run out as long as US pays the dues.

Basically keep on dreaming for Marvel in Orlando.

That would be so cool if it did come to Orlando but like you said I'll keep dreaming!

 

[tjkraz]

I don't know for sure that all of this is true, but it sounds logical.

The Transformers attraction sounds logical but there is nothing which points to an impact on Spider-Man or Marvel.

I appreciate your obvious passion for seeing the Marvel rights go back to Disney but you're clinging to the most unlikely rays of hope. Many reliable sources have cited the perpetual rights agreement and Disney highest officials have done nothing to contradict that notion. Yet you hold up a Screamscape post which mentions a renewal date as being correct while all others are apparently wrong.

Now we've got dated comments from a Universal exec about Spidey and Transformers not coexisting, so the conclusion is that Spider-Man is closing and Marvel rights being bought-out.

It just isn't sound reasoning.

 

[fannatic]

Don't get me wrong, I love Universal. But, they had their chance to buy Marvel, in which case they really would have had a perpetual contract, but they passed. Disney now owns Marvel. Universal will not be allowed to add anything new to Marvel Island, so what's the point. It just makes them look kind of pathetic holding another company's characters hostage, because they can't create their own franchises. I know Disney and Avatar (the same thing applies there). At the most, I'll say that Marvel will be at Universal for 5 years. But, more than likely, 2 or 3 years.

 

[Metro West]

Don't get me wrong, I love Universal. But, they had their chance to buy Marvel, in which case they really would have had a perpetual contract, but they passed. Disney now owns Marvel. Universal will not be allowed to add anything new to Marvel Island, so what's the point. It just makes them look kind of pathetic holding another company's characters hostage, because they can't create their own franchises. I know Disney and Avatar (the same thing applies there). At the most, I'll say that Marvel will be at Universal for 5 years. But, more than likely, 2 or 3 years.

Pathetic or not, Comcast has something that Disney wants so whenever the rights are purchased, Disney is going to pay through the nose for them...you'd better believe that. I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney pay Universal what they paid for Marvel or even more so it's not going to be cheap. Besides...Disney knew all about the contract with Universal long before they bought Marvel so nothing is being held hostage. Disney should tried to get the rights before they purchased but they didn't and now they have to deal with it.

 

[tjkraz]

Pathetic or not, Comcast has something that Disney wants so whenever the rights are purchased, Disney is going to pay through the nose for them...you'd better believe that. I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney pay Universal what they paid for Marvel or even more so it's not going to be cheap. Besides...Disney knew all about the contract with Universal long before they bought Marvel so nothing is being held hostage. Disney should tried to get the rights before they purchased but they didn't and now they have to deal with it.

LOL. Not sure I agree that "Comcast has something that Disney wants." Comcast / Universal is locked into a licensing agreement which guarantees a steady revenue flow to Disney. Disney doesn't have to invest a single dime to earn that money. They don't have to build a single attraction, restroom or churro booth and they get millions in licensing fees, merchandise revenue, ad revenue, exposure for their characters, etc.

Meanwhile Disney has 8 other parks around the world in which they are free to add a Marvel presence.

All things being equal, perhaps Disney wishes that the agreement didn't exist. But I doubt they are crying in their soup over the money it brings in.

And don't forget that Disney also has something Comcast needs: ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNNews, The Disney Channel, Disney XD, ABC, etc. Those carriage agreements likely cost a lot more than the Marvel licensing agreement.

How will we know if Disney is desperate to reclaim the Marvel rights? Answer: If Disney reclaims the Marvel rights. They have deep pockets and could afford to write a check to get the characters back.

But IMO it's far more likely Disney will continue to reap the benefits of the Florida agreement while adding Marvel characters in California, Paris or some other location where there are absolutely no hurdles.

 

[Metro West]

But IMO it's far more likely Disney will continue to reap the benefits of the Florida agreement while adding Marvel characters in California, Paris or some other location where there are absolutely no hurdles.

I agree...I guess we'll all have to wait and see what shakes out.

 

[tjkraz]

I'll even go one step further and say that if Disney has any intention of building a stand-alone Marvel park at Disneyland, they are better off leaving that as the (near) exclusive destination for Marvel content. Better to market the heck out of the Marvel park and lure east-coasters out to DL rather than jumping through hoops to terminate the Universal agreement and then investing in a lesser Marvel presence at WDW. Make it a sort of Disneyland exclusive.

 

[fannatic]

This is a bit off topic, but I wonder if someone can help me out. The rumored expansion of Downtown Disney is suppose to take the West Side parking lot and
turn it into a huge structure with two levels of parking and on the top level - what is described as "entertainment". I thought this might be for a future park, but now I'm not so sure. I've read that Downtown Disney is 120 acres. This may include the parking lots. A decent park would have to have around 100 acres at least. Anyway, does anyone know the exact facts of the parking lots at Downtown Disney?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This is a bit off topic, but I wonder if someone can help me out. The rumored expansion of Downtown Disney is suppose to take the West Side parking lot and
turn it into a huge structure with two levels of parking and on the top level - what is described as "entertainment". I thought this might be for a future park, but now I'm not so sure. I've read that Downtown Disney is 120 acres. This may include the parking lots. A decent park would have to have around 100 acres at least. Anyway, does anyone know the exact facts of the parking lots at Downtown Disney?

Whatever plan that this is a part of...it more than likely represents the top or near the top of potential cash investment in the rehab scenario...

Which means the chances are near zero that this particular plan would be pursued.

Disney seems to be lacking the will to invest this kind of capital at downtown...for all intents and purposes - they've let it fall into disrepair and offer declining options.

Part of it may just be the facts of life: all the merchandise they sell is mass produced and can be gotten off the Internet...so investing huge bucks in a standalone retail district seems kinda foolish...and outdated

 

[Disneyfreak44]

I wish WDW could get marvel attractions

 

[Andy713]

I believe one of the ways Disney could possibly bring pressure on Universal in regards to IOA is if they (Disney) decided to build Marvel attractions in California on a scale that would put IOA's Marvel stuff to shame. I'm talking a full on, mega themed land, that included multiple rides, highly detailed queue's, unique merchandise, and promote it like crazy.

Not saying it would happen, or not knocking what IOA has done, but creating something like this could possibly make IOA's take on the Marvel universe seem almost irrelevant.

Just some thoughts...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

So let me get this straight...

In order for Disney to "keep up with universal"...which they've never had to do nor are ever likely to do...they are going to build a west
Coast "shadow park" of marvel
Characters to "show up" Universal in florida??

The reality is that the marvel rides at IOA are 13 years old and aren't that "relevant" in the first place.

And before you give the "what about avengers..." line - by that logic (sic) there must be millions of travelers who have Booked at uni Orlando to go on hulk and doctor doom in the cultural phenomena that is the Avengers craze (haven't heard too much about that in a month or so...have we?)...I only need 2 to
Validate the claim.

There's a lot of comicon zeal starting to run amuck around here...I'd call it wishful thinking - but I'm not sure the term is accurate.

 

[Andy713]

So let me get this straight...

In order for Disney to "keep up with universal"...which they've never had to do nor are ever likely to do...they are going to build a west
Coast "shadow park" of marvel
Characters to "show up" Universal in florida??

The reality is that the marvel rides at IOA are 13 years old and aren't that "relevant" in the first place.

And before you give the "what about avengers..." line - by that logic (sic) there must be millions of travelers who have Booked at uni Orlando to go on hulk and doctor doom in the cultural phenomena that is the Avengers craze (haven't heard too much about that in a month or so...have we?)...I only need 2 to
Validate the claim.

There's a lot of comicon zeal starting to run amuck around here...I'd call it wishful thinking - but I'm not sure the term is accurate.

I wasn't suggesting Disney keep up with anyone. Not my point. The thread is about the Avengers coming to disney, so I merely offered an opinion on how Disney could possibly put pressure on UNI by creating something bigger, better, and more fleshed out. As a possible result, the east coast IOA Marvel park MAY not seem as valuable to hold onto. And not building a Marvel park to "just" put pressure on UNI, but an unexpected benefit.

And what difference does the age of Marvel at IOA make? 13 years or 100 years, at this point they're the ONLY Marvel park, so even at 13 years, they're still the newest. I wasn't even making the point that the attractions themselves are irrelevant or not, but the concept of a Marvel park being unique would become "obsolete". I guess thats a better term than irrelevant.

This is a forum about speculation that's full of "wishful thinking". I don't sit on Disney's board of directors, I'm not the CEO, and nothing I say here matters at all to the "corporate vision", but I like to imagine this or that and guess and play what-if. This is about theme parks, not life or death, so I'm sorry if my Marvel "zeal" runs amuck from time to time, I'm just expressing a point of view or an opinion about something I like, which is Disney, who happens to own Marvel. And Pixar. And ESPN. And ABC. And God knows what else. It's ALL Disney.

I wasn't going to give anyone a "what about Avengers" line. Hadn't crossed my mind. But thanks for shutting down that line of imaginary thinking along with the things I did say.

This is supposed to be fun...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I wasn't suggesting Disney keep up with anyone. Not my point. The thread is about the Avengers coming to disney, so I merely offered an opinion on how Disney could possibly put pressure on UNI by creating something bigger, better, and more fleshed out. As a possible result, the east coast IOA Marvel park MAY not seem as valuable to hold onto. And not building a Marvel park to "just" put pressure on UNI, but an unexpected benefit.

And what difference does the age of Marvel at IOA make? 13 years or 100 years, at this point they're the ONLY Marvel park, so even at 13 years, they're still the newest. I wasn't even making the point that the attractions themselves are irrelevant or not, but the concept of a Marvel park being unique would become "obsolete". I guess thats a better term than irrelevant.

This is a forum about speculation that's full of "wishful thinking". I don't sit on Disney's board of directors, I'm not the CEO, and nothing I say here matters at all to the "corporate vision", but I like to imagine this or that and guess and play what-if. This is about theme parks, not life or death, so I'm sorry if my Marvel "zeal" runs amuck from time to time, I'm just expressing a point of view or an opinion about something I like, which is Disney, who happens to own Marvel. And Pixar. And ESPN. And ABC. And God knows what else. It's ALL Disney.

I wasn't going to give anyone a "what about Avengers" line. Hadn't crossed my mind. But thanks for shutting down that line of imaginary thinking along with the things I did say.

This is supposed to be fun...

Fair enough...but understand that what typically happens is that somebody reads the speculation, fails to realize that it is such...then it pops up months or even years down the road and everyone spins their wheels with it...

But that's not your issue and I shouldnt have jumped on your thoughts as such...my apologies.

But the reality is - I believe - the same: Disney has little to gain from rushing to build any marvel based construction projects. They have beyond a cake arrangement as it stands.

And I've read Iger's comments...but if you ask the Disney hierarchy they are going to of course claim that they are aggressively, all the time, 24 hours a day.

It's part of their PR play book/ schtick

 

[Andy713]

Fair enough...but understand that what typically happens is that somebody reads the speculation, fails to realize that it is such...then it pops up months or even years down the road and everyone spins their wheels with it...

But that's not your issue and I shouldnt have jumped on your thoughts as such...my apologies.

But the reality is - I believe - the same: Disney has little to gain from rushing to build any marvel based construction projects. They have beyond a cake arrangement as it stands.

And I've read Iger's comments...but if you ask the Disney hierarchy they are going to of course claim that they are aggressively, all the time, 24 hours a day.

It's part of their PR play book/ schtick

And my apologies for sounding so defensive. You make very valid points and I definitely respect your opinions. All I do is pure "blue sky" stuff. Just opinions that I admit sometimes get very fan boyish.

TDO/Disney/Iger just make things so frustrating at times.