Disney Skyliner (Gondola Transportation System) Read Post 1 Now Open!

[danikoski]

Turns out that there are at least two systems that have AC, London's also has it. It uses super capacitors to supply the power. Super capacitors can store power, but unlike batteries they charge and discharge very rapidly which works for these systems because they can charge at each turn station.

http://gondolaproject.com/2012/09/12/how-londons-emirates-air-line-cable-car-powers-cabins/

I was just going to post that...Since Doppelmayr worked on the cable cars for the London line, and Doppelmayr is the rumored contractor for Disney's system, I'm guessing they have it all worked out.

As a side note, Wiki states the London line has a capacity of 2,500 per hour in each direction, or the equivalent of 50 bus loads.

 

[Josh Hendy]

I hope those capacitors are really big because Florida is super hot compared to London. And the body heat of 40 or 50 people must add up to many thousands of watts that must be vented or cooled.

 

[Sweettears]

I wouldn't be so sure about that when you consider how little surface area there is for solar cells and how much power AC requires.

Thanks. That is why I added the disclaimer up front.

 

[circus4u]

There is a guy from https://liftblog.com/ posting about this over at WDWMagic. He has stated that there is only one gondola system in the world that has AC. AC is not an easy thing to do because gondola cars are not normally connected to a power source.

My first thought would be what about lights inside them if there is no power source. Would they run at night?

 

[danikoski]

I hope those capacitors are really big because Florida is super hot compared to London. And the body heat of 40 or 50 people must add up to many thousands of watts that must be vented or cooled.

Each gondola will probably only hold 10-15 people, but because they move continuously, they have a pretty large capacity per hour.

 

[sachilles]

as to another entrance and/or a path.
Many folks have talked about 3rd entrance to Epcot. Consensus suggests that additional cost to man that entrance makes it prohibitive/unlikely.

Wondering out loud IF a third exit could make sense for that spot by the African outpost? Minimal staff would be needed, and maybe it's only open after illuminations or something. Sort of like the bypass out of tomorrow land to the front of the MK. Mostly just to allow the large mass to dissipate. Staff a crossing guard across Buena vista. Then allow folks on to the gondola to pop/Aoa or to DHS.

 

[skier_pete]

as to another entrance and/or a path.
Many folks have talked about 3rd entrance to Epcot. Consensus suggests that additional cost to man that entrance makes it prohibitive/unlikely.

Wondering out loud IF a third exit could make sense for that spot by the African outpost? Minimal staff would be needed, and maybe it's only open after illuminations or something. Sort of like the bypass out of tomorrow land to the front of the MK. Mostly just to allow the large mass to dissipate. Staff a crossing guard across Buena vista. Then allow folks on to the gondola to pop/Aoa or to DHS.

I still don't think this happens. You could get a bit of a crowd at the Gondola station, but remember the loading rate of the gondola is still going to be much faster than a bus. So if Illuminations ends and you have 1000 people in line, that will be absorbed in probably about 20-30 minutes. It's still better than walking to the front of the park, waiting 20 minutes for a bus, cramming on the bus, and then still having a 15 minute drive to the resort. A 20 minute wait out the back gate for a 5-10 minute ride back to your property sounds pretty good, really.

 

[focusondisney]

Rumor has it no AC in the Gondolas.

OUCH! They do know these are in Florida and not Maine, right?

No AC won't surprise me. The Friendship boats from Epcot to HS have minimal to no AC. And you are on those for 20 minutes or more. Disney has gotten away with that for years so I don't see why they would worry about AC for a gondola that guests will only be on for 5 minutes.

 

[LeeAndRobin]

I hope those capacitors are really big because Florida is super hot compared to London. And the body heat of 40 or 50 people must add up to many thousands of watts that must be vented or cooled.

Well, it looks like there will be a max of 20 people per car. The average human puts out 97.2 watts. Thus, a total heat load of 97.2 * 20 = 1944 watts. Certainly a lot, but not "many thousands of watts".

 

[KYMickey]

Well, it looks like there will be a max of 20 people per car. The average human puts out 97.2 watts. Thus, a total heat load of 97.2 * 20 = 1944 watts. Certainly a lot, but not "many thousands of watts".

That's true but you aren't taking into account the heat load as a result of the sun hitting the outside of the cabin. That's going to provide a lot more he load than the people inside.

 

[beer dave]

Maybe the entire thing will be enclosed in a tunnel. They could have projections in the windows........

 

[LeeAndRobin]

That's true but you aren't taking into account the heat load as a result of the sun hitting the outside of the cabin. That's going to provide a lot more he load than the people inside.

I wasn't addressing the load from the sun. I was addressing the statement the poster made about the load from humans.

 

[Q-man]

So I see measurements lining up this way based on that map: 8000 feet roughly to go from AoA/POP to CBR. Then 5600 feet to go to DHS. Assuming this completely separate EPCOT run, that would be the winner at closer to 9500 to 10,000 feet if it was to come in at the International Gateway. Yeah, I used Google maps, a ruler, and approximations for the tower positions to calculate the numbers, so there is certainly a significant margin for error.

I wonder what speeds we are talking about here. 1.5 miles from AoA/POP, at 15 miles an hour, is a 6 minute traverse. Then unload, move to DHS boarding, wait in line, get on a new Gondola, probably a 4 minute traverse to DHS. Going from CBR to EPCOT I'm assuming at least 8 minutes of travel time with the corners at 15mph. You can multiply all times by 1.5 if you think it tops out at 10mph.

What's the point of this? From AoA/POP to EPCOT it's 14 or 15 minutes on the Gondolas, plus wait lines and load and unload at CBR. How long does it take the bus to get you from AoA/POP to EPCOT? Google cites 21 to 26 minutes depending on where you are picked up (and avoiding those pesky things like loading ECVs). So assuming your transfer and wait time at CBR is less than 5 minutes, and the wait for the first bus and the first gondola, and travel to the bus top and the gondola stop is essentially a wash, I guess this would save you a bit of time. Certainly would be more fun though, and I suppose that's the real point.

Before people start picking at my numbers, and feel free to do so, I'm not defending them. They are estimates on distance, WAGs on speeds, and unofficial data for buses. But it was a slow last few minutes for work and I was curious what I'd come up with.

If you're headed to the WS add 20 minutes of walk time on.

If you watched Illuminations from UK are you going to walk out the IG and take the gondola or walk back out front for a bus?

 

[skier_pete]

If you're headed to the WS add 20 minutes of walk time on.

If you watched Illuminations from UK are you going to walk out the IG and take the gondola or walk back out front for a bus?

Exactly, it probably won't be so much about wait/travel times, it will be more about where you are. If you are in Future World, you would probably grab a bus. In WS, you head for the gondola.

As I think about it, I wonder if this doesn't eliminate the bus, but does CUT it. Imagine instead of a bus for Pop and one for AOA, with the Gondola, now they only run one bus that shares at Pop and AOA - that would be for both DHS and Epcot, so you eliminate 50% of the buses to those two parks, or about 20% of the total bus needs for AOA and Pop. (MK, AK, and DS buses would remain unchanged.)

 

[sachilles]

We like to take the IG to one of the epcot resorts and taxi back to our resort. Wonder if it might cut down on that traffic as well. Can be a bit of a busy time after illuminations.

Front of epcot is very congested anyway, no matter what they do, having more passenger capacity out of the IG will be welcome.

 

[nkosiek]

We like to take the IG to one of the epcot resorts and taxi back to our resort. Wonder if it might cut down on that traffic as well. Can be a bit of a busy time after illuminations.

Front of epcot is very congested anyway, no matter what they do, having more passenger capacity out of the IG will be welcome.

Except that gate was built for the resorts that are currently there. Now you'll be adding 3 possible resorts worth of people for an area that really only has 4 turnstiles. That's not a huge area for the numbers this might bring.

 

[LSLS]

Except that gate was built for the resorts that are currently there. Now you'll be adding 3 possible resorts worth of people for an area that really only has 4 turnstiles. That's not a huge area for the numbers this might bring.

That's a GREAT point. You aren't just adding 3 more resorts, they are 3 of the biggest ones.

 

[jknezek]

That's a GREAT point. You aren't just adding 3 more resorts, they are 3 of the biggest ones.

Agreed. But the nature of the transportation system is also different. Unlike the boats and buses, you aren't bringing 50-100 people at a time to those 4 gates. You are only bringing 10-20 people (depending on capacity) every few minutes. So the spacing is different. Might they have to expand the number of turnstiles? Yes. But probably not as much as an entrance that services the hundreds coming in off the monorail all at once, or many bus loads showing up all at once. The resorts are huge, but the delivery system, while having a large capacity, is actually better spaced to allow for orderly procession through fewer gates.

 

[skier_pete]

Agreed. But the nature of the transportation system is also different. Unlike the boats and buses, you aren't bringing 50-100 people at a time to those 4 gates. You are only bringing 10-20 people (depending on capacity) every few minutes. So the spacing is different. Might they have to expand the number of turnstiles? Yes. But probably not as much as an entrance that services the hundreds coming in off the monorail all at once, or many bus loads showing up all at once. The resorts are huge, but the delivery system, while having a large capacity, is actually better spaced to allow for orderly procession through fewer gates.

Well - the hourly capacity of those gondolas is going to be a lot higher than the boats - The boats maybe hold 200 per boat, but you only have 4 boats an hour dropping off - which is 800 per hour. The gondolas I would guess will have a capacity in the 2000 - 3000 per hour range. Now, the boats surge people -you get 200 people in 5 minutes, and then nobody for 10 minutes. (Well, except walkers, but that number is fairly low as well.)

We really only have to consider Epcot here, the DHS entrance will remaining unchanged.

However, I really don't think this is a big deal. You are not going to actually get 2000 people every hour coming through the gondolas. Think about there will be 2,100 rooms at CBR and CBT combined, 2,800 at Pop, and 1000 at AOA. Now, let's assume we average 3.5 per room at Pop and CBR (between 3 and 4 being typical), and say 5 per room at AOA. That's 22,150 guests at all 4 resorts combined when they are at full capacity. So on any one day, maybe a 25% of those guests are going to epcot, 25% to DHS - which is a generous number considering there 4 parks, 2 water parks, DTD, and those that spend the day at the resorts. So that's 5,500 guests combined going to DHS and 5,500 guests to Epcot. But those guests are not all going to enter the park at the same time, they'll be spread out across most of the day. (Maybe most of them in the morning, but even then we know that only a small percent of guests take advantage of rope drop....the example I always use here is think about the busses to the parks in the morning. At any resort, a bus shows up every say 20 minutes. That means each resort may contribute up to 300 guests to rope drop.)

So let's say those 5,500 guests all go to the park by noontime, but are spread out relatively evenly between 8 AM and noon. That's 1,375 guests per hour. Roughly half the capacity (if we use 2000 - 3000 hour) of the gondola. Or 22 guests per minute.

So back to the original subject at hand - the capacity of the IG..now we are sending an extra 22 guests per minute through this gate. This says that another 5-6 gates would be enough to handle that capacity. (The IG is really over capacity as it is.)

 

[sachilles]

For exit times, the number of turnstiles should be irrelevant. The fact it's a bottleneck, ok, yeah that's a concern.
I have to believe that the gondola station might get it's own "gate" or at the very least some alteration to the current gate to address the capacity issue.