Disney Riviera Resort

[dlavender]

We may be coming at this from two different directions. No, DRR/CBR will probably not have multiple night clubs and bars. However neither do the Contemporary, Animal Kingdom, Wilderness Lodge, etc.

In drawing comparisons to the Boardwalk area, I was referring to the setup and easy accessibility of additional resources. Heck if Riviera guests want access to even more amenities, they're about a 5 minute gondola ride away from the Boardwalk itself.



But this isn't "Villas at Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort." In terms of branding the new property, obviously Disney wants to create as much separation as possible. Caribbean beach was not mentioned during the D23 presentation or the press release. Nearly a week later, there are still people who don't realize that Riviera is being built on former CBR land.

CBR's check-in location will almost certainly change since it's basically on the Riviera side of the resort. Separate entrances are virtually a given.

I'm giving Disney the benefit of the doubt in assuming that they will build Riviera to typical deluxe standards including room design, dining, feature pool, etc. If that doesn't happen, obviously it will change my opinion. After back-to-back conversion projects at Poly and WL, this is their first new construction since Grand Floridian villas. And that one hasn't disappointed.

Assuming impressive Riviera facilities, I don't believe that having to walk over to CBR to rent a boat or buy a turkey wrap (or any other item not offered on DRR restaurant menus) will be a deal-breaker for many. Prices, nightly point cost, dues or theme may be deal breakers--but not just the idea that they may have to mingle with neighbors from a moderate.

It's still a shift.

And AK has a zoo, Contemporary has the MK, WL has the lodge and boat access to the MK with views of MK fireworks. They all have not only access to deluxe resort amenities, they also have a "hook".

Now you are building a new DVC with its only hook being a shared gondola system with POP, and sharing amenities not with a deluxe but with a Mod.

Perhaps to most it wont matter if the new rooms are built right.

We don't know pricing, so I guess we (I) should reserve judgement until that day. But I can't see why anyone would accept BLT if BLT was next to CBR and not next to contemporary.

If it works out, they should put towers next to all the All stars.

 

[cranbiz]

Don't give them any more ideas!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

But this isn't "Villas at Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort." In terms of branding the new property, obviously Disney wants to create as much separation as possible. Caribbean beach was not mentioned during the D23 presentation or the press release. Nearly a week later, there are still people who don't realize that Riviera is being built on former CBR land.

CBR's check-in location will almost certainly change since it's basically on the Riviera side of the resort. Separate entrances are virtually a given.

I'm giving Disney the benefit of the doubt in assuming that they will build Riviera to typical deluxe standards including room design, dining, feature pool, etc. If that doesn't happen, obviously it will change my opinion. After back-to-back conversion projects at Poly and WL, this is their first new construction since Grand Floridian villas. And that one hasn't disappointed.

Assuming impressive Riviera facilities, I don't believe that having to walk over to CBR to rent a boat or buy a turkey wrap (or any other item not offered on DRR restaurant menus) will be a deal-breaker for many. Prices, nightly point cost, dues or theme may be deal breakers--but not just the idea that they may have to mingle with neighbors from a moderate.

Customs house has to be demolished (good riddance...and I should know cause I met my wife there...)

So caribbean has to have another checkin constructed. That's got to be a big part of "centertown" and basically makes it Dixie landings...

Other than that...I agree with everything you say...except the BOLD parts

And the grand was a STRAIGHT mooch off the old hotel...thats why it didn't "disappoint". All they added was the mad hatter dump bucket.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It's still a shift.

And AK has a zoo, Contemporary has the MK, WL has the lodge and boat access to the MK with views of MK fireworks. They all have not only access to deluxe resort amenities, they also have a "hook".

Now you are building a new DVC with its only hook being a shared gondola system with POP, and sharing amenities not with a deluxe but with a Mod.

Perhaps to most it wont matter if the new rooms are built right.

We don't know pricing, so I guess we (I) should reserve judgement until that day. But I can't see why anyone would accept BLT if BLT was next to CBR and not next to contemporary.

If it works out, they should put towers next to all the All stars.

This is cynical even for me...but you're not wrong either

 

[tjkraz]

But I can't see why anyone would accept BLT if BLT was next to CBR and not next to contemporary.

If your vision of this is "BLT next to CBR" then I'd say we are pretty far away in our perception. They've already announced the rooftop restaurant with fireworks views. That alone puts it ahead of BLT.

The BLT project began more than 10 years--and three DVC GMs--ago. I would propose that more recent projects would do a better job of predicting what Riviera will bring.

 

[dlavender]

If your vision of this is "BLT next to CBR" then I'd say we are pretty far away in our perception. They've already announced the rooftop restaurant with fireworks views. That alone puts it ahead of BLT.

The BLT project began more than 10 years--and three DVC GMs--ago. I would propose that more recent projects would do a better job of predicting what Riviera will bring.

Is BLT not connected by a short walkway to one of the best signature dining experiences in all of WDW?

Does Cal grill not offer rooftop viewing, right next store to the most popular park in the entire world?

Doesn't the tower itself have a viewing spot atop?

The backside of EPCOT is now more desirable?

I guess our perceptions are definitely far apart.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If your vision of this is "BLT next to CBR" then I'd say we are pretty far away in our perception. They've already announced the rooftop restaurant with fireworks views. That alone puts it ahead of BLT.

The BLT project began more than 10 years--and three DVC GMs--ago. I would propose that more recent projects would do a better job of predicting what Riviera will bring.

Um...blt has a rooftop bar where people go for 20 minutes to watch and leave...

You must have missed the announcement.

What have they done recently to suggest dvc isn't being done on the cheap?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm thinking more of the "it serves weird food" complaints.

The wdw clientele have awful tastes in food...this we know.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

1. Is BLT not connected by a short walkway to one of the best signature dining experiences in all of WDW?

2. Does Cal grill not offer rooftop viewing, right next store to the most popular park in the entire world?

3. Doesn't the tower itself have a viewing spot atop?

4. The backside of EPCOT is now more desirable?

I guess our perceptions are definitely far apart.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No

 

[tjkraz]

Is BLT not connected by a short walkway to one of the best signature dining experiences in all of WDW?

Does Cal grill not offer rooftop viewing, right next store to the most popular park in the entire world?

Doesn't the tower itself have a viewing spot atop?

The backside of EPCOT is now more desirable?

I guess our perceptions are definitely far apart.

A moment ago you derisively referred to Riviera as "BLT without the contemporary, next to CBR." Obviously the analogy is flawed if you're then giving BLT credit for California Grill. At a bare minimum, Riviera is BLT next to CBR, with additional dining and amenities which are not native to BLT.

What have they done recently to suggest dvc isn't being done on the cheap?

I'll just say this: All of my comments have come from the angle of what buyers are likely to expect in a new DVC destination. I'm not anticipating the reception to be markedly different than other recent properties. I think Disney will do enough to logistically separate Riviera from CBR when presenting to buyers. I think the room design will be up to deluxe standards. I think the gondola and its ease of accessing Hollywood Studios, Epcot and the BW area will provide appeal. I think many rooms will have superior Epcot views than either Beach Club or Boardwalk villas.

As for general commentary on the state of Walt Disney World, I'll leave that discussion to others. Not my area of interest.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The wdw clientele have awful tastes in food...this we know.

One again, to you I must say "how dare you"?

I think we have expectations set appropriately that this is a THEME PARK. Not Manhattan.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

A moment ago you derisively referred to Riviera as "BLT without the contemporary, next to CBR." Obviously the analogy is flawed if you're then giving BLT credit for California Grill. At a bare minimum, Riviera is BLT next to CBR, with additional dining and amenities which are not native to BLT.

Serious question: What practical difference in the world does this make when it's literally 2min away by walkway??

 

[mab2012]

I can't see us being in the market to buy here, even if we might be in the market to buy more DVC points around that time.

But if the per-night point cost is on the low-to-moderate end of the scale, we would probably be happy enough to stay there. I'd take BCV or BWV first, of course, but those are not the easiest resorts to book at 7 months (and likely to get harder, as we all know).

I don't care much about theming. I do care about overcrowding, so depending on what they build, that might be an issue. But mostly I care about location. And while this new resort doesn't quite have the prime location you get with BCV or BWV, it'll be the next best thing insofar as EPCOT/DHS access is concerned. I know some have concerns about the gondolas, but I don't share them.

I do think there have been some valid concerns raised here about the wisdom of this project and how it might impact the DVC model overall. Unlike VGF or Poly, it doesn't look like existing members are going to be a big target market for this one. It may well be more like SSR, where it seems a lot of people bought just because they wanted DVC, and SSR was what they were selling at the time. The details will matter. A lot.

 

[tjkraz]

Serious question: What practical difference in the world does this make when it's literally 2min away by walkway??

Criticizing Bay Lake Tower for not having any amenities within the building itself is apparently a thing. I don't particularly get it either.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Criticizing Bay Lake Tower for not having any amenities within the building itself is apparently a thing. I don't particularly get it either.

As an owner at BLT, all I can say is that it is a meaningless distinction to us. We are SO CLOSE to Contemporary -- closer than various parts of many resorts are to one another!!

 

[dlavender]

A moment ago you derisively referred to Riviera as "BLT without the contemporary, next to CBR." Obviously the analogy is flawed if you're then giving BLT credit for California Grill. At a bare minimum, Riviera is BLT next to CBR, with additional dining and amenities which are not native to BLT.

That's my whole point, BLT doesn't work if its not next to Contemporary.

BLT wouldn't work next to CBR.

The whole allure to DVC was to enjoy the deluxe at mod price, right?

You can essentially buy in to a deluxe resort (even though a separate building), but end up with mod type pricing.

Now you are trying to sell a whole new resort that happens to be by a mod?

It's a complete shift.

You basically are trying to say, in my analogy, that the new DVC is the contemporary.

I don't think it will be that. I think it will be BLT, and there's the problem.

 

[tjkraz]

That's my whole point, BLT doesn't work if its not next to Contemporary.

BLT wouldn't work next to CBR.

Agree. But I don't see Riviera as an 8-story tower with no restaurant (we already know that isn't the case), no gift shop, no bus stop, no monorail station, etc.

 

[dlavender]

Agree. But I don't see Riviera as an 8-story tower with no restaurant (we already know that isn't the case), no gift shop, no bus stop, no monorail station, etc.

They'd have to make it a stand alone deluxe.

Then the DVC could have its own DVC tower add on one day.....

Perhaps they can pull it off.

But it would essentially need double the amount of amenities than the other DVC's, since it wont have the opportunity to share with a neighboring property.

 

[tjkraz]

They'd have to make it a stand alone deluxe.

I have every expectation that will be the case. Again, this isn't Caribbean Beach Villas. It's not an add-on to a moderate. It's conceived as an entirely separate destination...which just happens to be on land reclaimed from CBR. When complete, the proximity between Riviera and CBR will be similar to the (also separate) Beach Club and BoardWalk resorts.

Unless we find out otherwise, there's every reason to think that Riviera will have its own dining, shops, recreation and transportation. We already know riviera will have its own gondola load station separate from CBR's. We know it will have at least one TS restaurant. I don't think it's a stretch to assume there will be a QS dining option and some sort of pool.

Guests shouldn't be required to walk over to CBR for much, if anything. (Primary things that come to mind would be marina, playground(s), bike rentals, sports courts...such little-used amenities may not be duplicated at Riviera, similar to how BW doesn't have a marina and BC doesn't rent Surrey bikes.) But the close proximity of CBR means that Riviera guests will have even more options for dining, shopping, pool hopping, etc.

 

[dlavender]

I have every expectation that will be the case. Again, this isn't Caribbean Beach Villas. It's not an add-on to a moderate. It's conceived as an entirely separate destination...which just happens to be on land reclaimed from CBR. When complete, the proximity between Riviera and CBR will be similar to the (also separate) Beach Club and BoardWalk resorts.

Unless we find out otherwise, there's every reason to think that Riviera will have its own dining, shops, recreation and transportation. We already know riviera will have its own gondola load station separate from CBR's. We know it will have at least one TS restaurant. I don't think it's a stretch to assume there will be a QS dining option and some sort of pool.

Guests shouldn't be required to walk over to CBR for much, if anything. (Primary things that come to mind would be marina, playground(s), bike rentals, sports courts...such little-used amenities may not be duplicated at Riviera, similar to how BW doesn't have a marina and BC doesn't rent Surrey bikes.) But the close proximity of CBR means that Riviera guests will have even more options for dining, shopping, pool hopping, etc.

I get that CBR Villas Riviera will be a separate resort from CBR.

But having a TS and a QS doesn't do enough in my mind to compensate for the loss in shared amenities with deluxes that the other properties enjoy.

Now if they put in stormalong bay 2.0, and California Grill 2.0, they might get closer.

The marina is closed at CBR, if I remember correctly (a move I hate since I felt that was a great amenity)

But strolling around CBR on a Surrey is a little different than cruising around BC/BW/YC on a Surrey. Just because its the same bike, doesn't mean its the same ambience and experience. So sharing anything with CBR is a downgraded experience vs sharing with a deluxe. That's my contention.