disney renting out dvc units

[cac_li]

Does it bother anyone that Disney can rent out DVC declared units if they are not booked 60 days prior to check-in? I am wondering if this is why I am having difficulty getting last minute reservations--any thoughts?

Does anyone know if we as owners have any input in rules that are created for our timeshared? If so, how do we go about getting involved?

cac_li@yahoo.com

 

[OKW Lover]

I'm happy with the situation. Its certainly much better than letting a unit go empty.

 

[TisBit]

Revenues from CRO rentals goes to help offset dues and budgets. While there is a cap to this revenue, it is just normal operating procedure for Timeshares. Usually at less than 60 days they will release units back and forth from CRO to points rentals....I have heard it going both ways.

I don't think there is a HUGE demand for DVC units though, they are pretty expensive through CRO....so we aren't competing with value or probably even moderate room folks....

The alternative is for the units to sit empty, MF's to go up and Disney to stop investing so much into DVC. With DVC, Disney gets the best of both worlds...we pay for a lot of the operating costs for a resort, but there is still profit through CRO on the rooms.

 

[Chuck S]

Actually,the 60 turn over is probably the smallest percentage of cash availability, and those units can be reclaimed by DVC for point usage if they aren't already rented for cash (first come, first served). So I don;t have a problem with it. Remember that the vast majority of cash availability you see is because other owners have chosen to trade out to other locations, and those units can't be returned to DVC inventory, as it would essentially be renting the same unit twice on points. DVC was never designed for last minute bookings on points.

 

[disney dumbo]

I'm wondering how many units the developers holds to rent out. I'm working with points in a holding account... only book 60 days prior. Regular res... shows availablity... but no DVC units... and waitlist haven't cleared. Sat. and Sun night. I know it's busy time of year with spring breaks.

But it makes me think that the developer holds the majority of it's units for extremely busy times of the year... which is great business sense... but difficult for DVC members.

Is it declared somewhere how much developer keeps... I'm guessing they own plenty with the ROFR, etc. I'm guessing they can play by their own rules... on how they use those points. Is there any accountiblity made available to the members?

Just wondering too if there ever is a situation where waitlist doesn't clear but reg. res. shows availablity even on check in day?

 

[TisBit]

I'm wondering how many units the developers holds to rent out. I'm working with points in a holding account... only book 60 days prior. Regular res... shows availablity... but no DVC units... and waitlist haven't cleared. Sat. and Sun night. I know it's busy time of year with spring breaks.

But it makes me think that the developer holds the majority of it's units for extremely busy times of the year... which is great business sense... but difficult for DVC members.

Is it declared somewhere how much developer keeps... I'm guessing they own plenty with the ROFR, etc. I'm guessing they can play by their own rules... on how they use those points. Is there any accountiblity made available to the members?

Just wondering too if there ever is a situation where waitlist doesn't clear but reg. res. shows availablity even on check in day?

Developer holds 4% for CRO....not including contracts that they excercised ROFR on and any that were traded out...

I am sure that there are times where someone did not get a ressie when CRO was available, most people are not real flexible in the last 30 days, so that is why all waitlists are scrapped at 30 days unless the member contacts the. Then the last 7 days are day by day....I have heard some posts that have come through at the very last minute, but not sure if there is "official policy" on moving rooms from CRO to points the last couple of days.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I'm wondering how many units the developers holds to rent out. I'm working with points in a holding account... only book 60 days prior. Regular res... shows availablity... but no DVC units... and waitlist haven't cleared. Sat. and Sun night. I know it's busy time of year with spring breaks.

But it makes me think that the developer holds the majority of it's units for extremely busy times of the year... which is great business sense... but difficult for DVC members.

Is it declared somewhere how much developer keeps... I'm guessing they own plenty with the ROFR, etc. I'm guessing they can play by their own rules... on how they use those points. Is there any accountiblity made available to the members?

Just wondering too if there ever is a situation where waitlist doesn't clear but reg. res. shows availablity even on check in day?

I think the majority of the CRO rentals come from exchanges into the Disney Collection (including the cruise). If you want the option of using the Disney Collection, then you will have to deal with seeing Disney CRO having available units when DVC does not. Someone already used that "unit" (read, points) for a trade, and now CRO has that inventory to "sell" to make up for the revenue.

 

[crisi]

I think the majority of the CRO rentals come from exchanges into the Disney Collection (including the cruise). If you want the option of using the Disney Collection, then you will have to deal with seeing Disney CRO having available units when DVC does not. Someone already used that "unit" (read, points) for a trade, and now CRO has that inventory to "sell" to make up for the revenue.

The other piece of this equation is that CRO needs to be able to rent those rooms - or they wouldn't "buy" them from DVC - and the more they can get for those rooms, the cheaper the trades are. DVC is likely to need to turn over more points (and therefore charge us more to cruise) if they only turn over low demand resorts during low demand time.

 

[drusba]

Does it bother anyone that Disney can rent out DVC declared units if they are not booked 60 days prior to check-in? I am wondering if this is why I am having difficulty getting last minute reservations--any thoughts?

Does anyone know if we as owners have any input in rules that are created for our timeshared? If so, how do we go about getting involved?

cac_li@yahoo.com

DVC has a percentage interest in each unit that it does not sell when the resort is sold and can rent (through CRO) that interest if it chooses any time of year or use it to account for maintenance issues that take rooms out of service. That's the 4% interest mentioned above although I think it varies and may be as low as 2% at the new resorts.

DVC can get available space (rooms) as a result of trade outs and can rent that, essentially any time of year.

Then at 60 days out it can rent any remaining inventory.


And no the members do not have any say in those rules. Those rules are actually spelled out in the disclosure documents new members get when they buy.

In fact, the members have no say in any of the rules, not just the above. It works like this. When you buy, you get disclosure documents that set out all existing rights and rules. DVC can make certain changes to rules but cannot make any that would materially alter the rights and interest you have. The documents actually grant you a right to vote in association matters which include changes to rules. However, under the same document, you assign back your rights to vote to DVC. Net effect, DVC controls all voting and does it for you and you cannot veto what it does (nor take back the assignment of voting rights you made). (This is all prefectly legal under timeshare law.) There are certain things where you retain a right to vote but those are unlikely to ever occur --for example, voting to remove a resort from being a DVC resort or to remove DVC as the manager of the resort.

Thus, the influence you are left with to change or modify anything is essentially persuasive only. You get enough members to complain about something and DVC may listen. However, something like the 60 day rule, since it is spelled out in the disclosure documents is not likely to be changed.

 

[momsully]

I had to add a day today to our April trip. We are well within the 60 day window. MS told me it looked like there was availability (1 Bedroom Savannah View) but they needed to call and get the room released. It took about five minutes on hold but they were able to get what I needed back from CRO.

 

[Dean]

DVC holds as much as 4% unsold which is mostly used for maintenance and the like. Little of this inventory appears to go to rentals. DVC does have the right by POS to anticipate inventory and rent it out ahead of time accordingly.

 

[macosx]

Developer holds 4% for CRO....not including contracts that they excercised ROFR on and any that were traded out...

I am sure that there are times where someone did not get a ressie when CRO was available...

Where did you find the 4% number? I've noticed (along with others) that sometimes, DVC member reservations are unavailable/sold out, but just go on their web site (CRO?) and the empty rooms are sitting right there waiting. Guess they're holding out for more revenue, but I haven't come accross specific contracts or publications that spell out how they keep the process fair to members.

 

[Dean]

Where did you find the 4% number? I've noticed (along with others) that sometimes, DVC member reservations are unavailable/sold out, but just go on their web site (CRO?) and the empty rooms are sitting right there waiting. Guess they're holding out for more revenue, but I haven't come accross specific contracts or publications that spell out how they keep the process fair to members.

It's referenced in the POS. I don't have it handy but it says something to the effect that DVD may retain up to 4%. Generally this is used for maintenance and to balance the system but is occasionally rented out as well from what I hear.

 

[TisBit]

Where did you find the 4% number? I've noticed (along with others) that sometimes, DVC member reservations are unavailable/sold out, but just go on their web site (CRO?) and the empty rooms are sitting right there waiting. Guess they're holding out for more revenue, but I haven't come accross specific contracts or publications that spell out how they keep the process fair to members.

As Dean said, it is mentioned in the POS, but I also remember my guide specifically talking about the 4% and how that revenue helps offset costs. Also, remember that if DVC opened up unsold rooms (or non-declared) rooms for points rental, it would off set the system, basicly at times the resorts could be almost completely empty because all of the points had been used during the peak periods in non-declared inventory.

 

[cac_li]

That is the reason I brought this issue up. I needed to cancel a reservation ( Feb trip)and the points would be put in a holding acct(April use year)--when I tried to reschedule a trip, there were no dvc units available for more than 2 days in a row before the end of my use year, but ms said I could rent for cash (which I was definitely not going to do b/c I had 110 points to use).

This entire scenario has really made me question my DVC timeshare as much as I enjoy it. When I book a feb vacation(which I almost always do b/c I am a teacher) and for some unforeseen circumstance have to cancel--DVC does not always have an option for me b/c my use year ends in April.

I wish that DVC would not make it difficult or restrictive to use the timeshare that we already paid for and pay the maintenance on--

I am trying to think of a proposal to make to DVC that would be beneficial to both DVC owners and Disney -- if DVC wanted to stop the selling of pts, which many members probably do so they don't just lose them, maybe DVC can rent them back from us--and then rent out to the public at a profit for them--it is a win-win for both sides.

It just bothers me when I feel that DVC is creating rules that are going to cause me and other members to have to burn points--I just feel that is not right. In this year's catalog, they have made a change that you can't book within the last 4 months for any of the other places--last year, it was 2 months--things like that concern me. I have good friends who have owned OKW since it first opened and they have commented that they are having a much harder time making reservations than ever before.

Anyone have any suggestions or ideas?

 

[Plutofan]

I personally believe that Disney makes a lot of money by renting out points at the 60 day mark. If you run the numbers with estimates you can see that this has the potential of big profits for Disney so I do not think that Disney will ever change the rules. The cap at 2.5% in the budget was put in place for a reason. Just my thoughts. Unfortunately Disney will not disclose how much they make.

 

[Dean]

That is the reason I brought this issue up. I needed to cancel a reservation ( Feb trip)and the points would be put in a holding acct(April use year)--when I tried to reschedule a trip, there were no dvc units available for more than 2 days in a row before the end of my use year, but ms said I could rent for cash (which I was definitely not going to do b/c I had 110 points to use).

This entire scenario has really made me question my DVC timeshare as much as I enjoy it. When I book a feb vacation(which I almost always do b/c I am a teacher) and for some unforeseen circumstance have to cancel--DVC does not always have an option for me b/c my use year ends in April.

I wish that DVC would not make it difficult or restrictive to use the timeshare that we already paid for and pay the maintenance on--

I am trying to think of a proposal to make to DVC that would be beneficial to both DVC owners and Disney -- if DVC wanted to stop the selling of pts, which many members probably do so they don't just lose them, maybe DVC can rent them back from us--and then rent out to the public at a profit for them--it is a win-win for both sides.

It just bothers me when I feel that DVC is creating rules that are going to cause me and other members to have to burn points--I just feel that is not right. In this year's catalog, they have made a change that you can't book within the last 4 months for any of the other places--last year, it was 2 months--things like that concern me. I have good friends who have owned OKW since it first opened and they have commented that they are having a much harder time making reservations than ever before.

Anyone have any suggestions or ideas?

As set up (60 days breakage inventory), it's entirely possible that no one will ever be able to use holding account points other than possibly to sub in an existing reservation. Actually until a few years ago one couldn't use holding account points until 30 day out rather than 60. IMO, DVC members have had an easier than expected time on reservations for a long time. I think any availability at 7 months out or less is gravy from my way of looking at it.

 

[Dean]

I personally believe that Disney makes a lot of money by renting out points at the 60 day mark. If you run the numbers with estimates you can see that this has the potential of big profits for Disney so I do not think that Disney will ever change the rules. The cap at 2.5% in the budget was put in place for a reason. Just my thoughts. Unfortunately Disney will not disclose how much they make.

This 2.5% is after CRO takes their 50%. I'm doubting there's much profit for DVD in this area.

 

[Chuck S]

DVC has always been set up to work best for those that can plan long term. For the OP, the problem isn't necessarily due to any one factor, including DVCs rental of points in the 60 day window.

I, like another poster, have had DVC reclaim days turned over to at the 60 days mark for last minute changes (I added a day one week out). So in all likelihood, the OPs problem was not caused by the 60 day turnover, but a combination of factors like member trades.

A room that is traded IS technically being occupied by a DVC member on points, only then it is traded to another collection requiring DVC to pay cash, thus DVC has to rent it out for cash to recoup. Then, the use year can into play, with April only giving the OP a short window in which to use holding points, being a teacher, can we assume she was wanting to travel during Spring Break or Easter week? Of course, there is no availabilty for that period at 2 months out.

 

[cac_li]

I was willing to go for a long weekend in March but there were no reservations at all available for more than 2 days together.