Disney: Paying more and getting less!!!

[akadada]

I agree.

You also have to take into account what you get for your ticket pricing. When I started going regularly, no-expiration was a given on most tickets, and hopping was included on a four day pass or longer. Then they decided to charge almost the same amount of money, but now give you the privilege of paying extra for those features if you wanted them. That was a huge effective cost increase to get what had been included automatically.

I remember when the "break even" point for an AP was more than 8 park days. So if you were going to be spending more than 8 days in the parks you might as well get an AP. What is it now? I think it's over ten days because you can't add any more than ten days to a MYW ticket.

And the dining plan? In 2008 they took away the appetizer and gratuity and lowered the price by a dollar to something like $37/night I think. Now look at the price! What is it for 2013? Almost $56/night?

Inflation has only been running around 2-ish percent per year over the past five years so you can't just blame it on "everything is more expensive!"

All great points!

 

[jmclester]

What is an RFID ticket?

 

[akadada]

2) service has declined imo. don't know where else folks travel but sorry disneys service is not top notch especially for what they charge. In fact go down the street to the new Waldorf (which is some times cheaper than a disney deluxe) then let's talk quality.

3) My biggie is food. which I think anyone who has gone for a few years will agree has also gone down.

A couple of years ago we went to Paris for a few hundred bucks more. totally different experience and my kids had just as much fun (and food was 1000000X's better).

It's a big world you can go other places and still love the mouseworld.

Exactly!

Service and food quality is way down from our perspective.

We went to Italy for 16 days for maybe $1,500 more than a one week (8 days actually) off season at a deluxe resort with deluxe dining (whether deluxe dining or not, it's comparable). Italy was way more fun as well.

When we go Disney now, we stay off site, get a 2BR or 3BR (usually better quality room as well) for about 30% - 50% of the Deluxe or Villa (via Dave's Rentals) rates or do a half offsite and a couple nights onsite for the location experience.

And the cost for 8 days is still $6,000-$8,000! (Family of four).

Crazy. . . yet for those with a strong sense of the obvious irony here: I'm still talking on this board and we still go to Disney every 18 - 36 months... hmmm; I guess it's hard to break an addiction. Doh!

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Honestly, Disney still gives our family the best value for our vacation dollar and works out to be the cheapest vacation available for us to take.

I just priced out flights for the two of us to Vegas and to the Caribbean, and while Vegas was competitively priced, the flights to the Caribbean alone, with no accommodations, were just about half of what we pay to do Disney. Vegas was cheap, even with accommodations, making it about what we pay to do Disney, but we'd still have to pay OOP for everything else like food, entertainment, shows, etc. If we were to fly there, not eat, do no shows, then yeah, it'd be cheaper... But the rest of it? Not so much.

Is Disney for everybody every vacation? No, and that's fine. One less person I have to wait behind at Soarin. But I've never understood "I pay more and get less" mentality. In terms of value, especially if you take advantage of the buttload of promotions that are out there for Disney trips, it may be a lot of money, but in terms of value it's pretty hard to find something that is on par or better.

If I had more money, I'd be more inclined to do other things, but after just pricing out a 3k vacation that doesn't include dining or entertainment for the Caribbean, it's hard to get pumped knowing that for 1k less, I can get a full vacation, food, entertainment, plus airfare.

 

[eliza61]

Exactly!


Crazy. . . yet for those with a strong sense of the obvious irony here: I'm still talking on this board and we still go to Disney every 18 - 36 months... hmmm; I guess it's hard to break an addiction. Doh!

Not really. for me it's not a "one or the other" proposition. I think folks on these boards take disney really personally.
I still love disney and we do have good vacations but it just doesn't have all the value for my vacation dollars.

IIs Disney for everybody every vacation? No, and that's fine. One less person I have to wait behind at Soarin. But I've never understood "I pay more and get less" mentality. In terms of value, especially if you take advantage of the buttload of promotions that are out there for Disney trips, it may be a lot of money, but in terms of value it's pretty hard to find something that is on par or better.

.

Not hard at all.

It depends on how you define value. from your post it seems like the dollar amount is your main determining factor. for me it's different.

For example for me it's food. I'd rather pay 10X's the price and be guaranteed a good meal then to get free dining and be served mediocre food. So for me free dining is absolutely the worst thing out there. Even if it's free, I hate lousy food. so I am getting less. I stay deluxe, I have no issue with the price but I do expect certain things for that price. I hate having a sub par room which I have had experience with at the world. Now I will tell the truth that all my complaints have always, always been rectified but once again I have had it often enough at the world where it's not a "one time" event. So yeah I do see it as 'getting Less".
So my description of "value" is not the same.
Pretty hard to find some thing else? Are you kidding. Sorry take the 500 dollars you pay at night at the GF and go to vegas. NO way can you compare the treatment you'd get at the Wynn, the Bellagio, the Venetian and say it's comparable. (Just my opinion). I'm comparing resort to resort, not cost of airfare.

So there are many ways to determine value. some it's the bottom line, some it's what you get for those dollars.

disclaimer: I am not saying what ever way you decide is the correct way only that there are many different ways. I just commented because you said it's hard to find comparable quality. IMO it's down right easy.

 

[dadddio]

What is an RFID ticket?

It is a ticket with an embedded Radio-Frequency IDentification chip, not unlike the chip that many restricted access ID cards have. Many of the features of the MyMagic+ program that is currently being rolled out or soon to be rolled out require these chips. Some of these features include resort door locks, park gates, FP return queue access, swipe-to-pay, et al.

 

[jmclester]

It is a ticket with an embedded Radio-Frequency IDentification chip, not unlike the chip that many restricted access ID cards have. Many of the features of the MyMagic+ program that is currently being rolled out or soon to be rolled out require these chips. Some of these features include resort door locks, park gates, FP return queue access, swipe-to-pay, et al.

Ok thanks daddio. That makes sense. Our door locks at Riverside were like that in Jan.

And eliza61...of topic but i LOVE your "Stripes" reference in your tag line!!

 

[Sur]

We find it to be true, also, that Disney gives us the best bang for our buck- in similar trips elsewhere. Year after year we can go and not do the same thing twice.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Not hard at all.

It depends on how you define value. from your post it seems like the dollar amount is your main determining factor. for me it's different.

For example for me it's food. I'd rather pay 10X's the price and be guaranteed a good meal then to get free dining and be served mediocre food. So for me free dining is absolutely the worst thing out there. Even if it's free, I hate lousy food. so I am getting less. I stay deluxe, I have no issue with the price but I do expect certain things for that price. I hate having a sub par room which I have had experience with at the world. Now I will tell the truth that all my complaints have always, always been rectified but once again I have had it often enough at the world where it's not a "one time" event. So yeah I do see it as 'getting Less".
So my description of "value" is not the same.
Pretty hard to find some thing else? Are you kidding. Sorry take the 500 dollars you pay at night at the GF and go to vegas. NO way can you compare the treatment you'd get at the Wynn, the Bellagio, the Venetian and say it's comparable. (Just my opinion). I'm comparing resort to resort, not cost of airfare.

So there are many ways to determine value. some it's the bottom line, some it's what you get for those dollars.

disclaimer: I am not saying what ever way you decide is the correct way only that there are many different ways. I just commented because you said it's hard to find comparable quality. IMO it's down right easy.

Value is the bang for your buck. Of course if you spend more, you'll get more. If you spend 10x more then me, you should expect better service. It's only reasonable and it makes sense.

But if my vacation fund is 2k, if I take that 2k and go to Disney, it's going to get me more then it gets me in Vegas. 2k gives me at Disney everything I need for the week, including dining. I don't get that at Vegas... Just airfare to Vegas costs me about $500 more then airfare to Orlando, and that is an extra $500 gone that I wouldn't have spent getting to Disney.

If I had a vacation where I could just keep hucking money out there for better experiences, then yes obviously you'll have a better experience then the person who's not spending 10 times more. But that's not value. That's you paying 10 times more and getting 10 times more. Even at Disney, if you pay 10 times more then somebody else, you'll have a way different experience in terms of quality. But if we're saying that we have a budget of X amount and I need to have a great experience and need to make it stretch, then Disney is one of the best experiences out there, especially for those that shop the deals, when it comes to vacations. 2k at Disney gets me way farther then 2k going to Vegas. I'm not saying you can't do Vegas on 2k, or that Vegas isn't worth going to on 2k, but you're going to take hits on quality on that 2k trip you wouldn't be with going to Disney. The 2k I invest in my vacation at Disney will get me a lot more then what I'll get at other places.

As far as the free dining being the end of the world as we know it, that's something I've never, ever bought into. 9 out of 10 times the complaints about the DDP come from people who either don't know how to properly use the DDP, people who don't understand how the dining industry works as a whole, or, frankly, people who believe that any experience that includes the word "free" has now been cheapened and therefore must be not as good. Those who, by offering it for free, the allure of the service is now gone as it's available to be enjoyed by all and, therefore, the attractiveness in the exclusivity that comes with having something others don't doesn't exist to give people that boost of having more then the guy next to them.

In all the trips I've had, pre and post DDP, the only tangible changes I've seen that has occurred to the food and dining experience are made due to changing food trends, changing family/experience needs and expectations, and simple economics. Honestly, at this point, with as many amazing places as there are to eat, both on and off the DDP, whenever I hear that somebody had a bad dining experience or mediocre food and it's the fault of DDP or FD, my assumption is that they must have screwed up somewhere. I mean, honestly, it makes no sense to me whatsoever that somebody like Gordon Ramsay or Anthony Bordain can go to Disney with their families and declare specific places and dishes among the best in the country, and state the overall dining experience to be among the best in vacation and entertainment dining in the continental US, but there is a general sentiment among some on here that because they can't find Mickey's head on a pat of butter and Disney X place no longer serves (insert outdated dish/food prep method here), therefore the DDP and free dining has degraded the food experience to a degree where it's mediocre.

I mean really, Tom Colicchio goes to Disney with his family for Food and Wine religiously every year and raves about the food... Last trip he singled out Le Cellier, Jiko, and Teppan Edo, went to Twitter to rave at the food, but people here say that Le Cellier is like Outback? Jiko is no better or worse then any other specialty sit down? Teppan Edo is the same quality-wise Benihana? I don't understand how somebody who's so renowned for his palate and eye for food and has built a career off his culinary savvy can arrive at such a dramatically different conclusion then people here who think that dining at Disney has been ruined by FD. I mean, Gordon Ramsay can tell by taste the difference between a lobster from Canada and a Maine lobster, but Disney was able to hornswaggle him to thinking that the food at San Angel Inn was great and not of the same quality as Chilis? Makes NO sense.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Funny things about Disney food....if I compare the food Disney serves now, to what they 'used' to serve...I'd still say the food they serve now is way better than what they used to have. But I am thinking of days of nasty steamer-dish hamburgers they used to serve, alongside limp fries, and boring prepackaged 'salads.' Like icky potato salad (nothing against potato salad persay, just the version they served was boring.) I am also gald the erra of smoked turkeylegs everywhere has diminished, The smell always makes me want to hurl. Also, while not great WDW pizza is WAY better than the nasty ones they USED to serve.

Yes, there was a time around 2005 when Disney food was more intersting than what they serve now, but they was true for almost EVERY restaurant. I can't think of ANY restaurants that have not cut back and raised prices as a result of the recession. My local grocery store prices have also skyrocketed in the same time frame.

There are mnay reasons to discontinue goiing to WDW, but I sort of find this one a bit curious.

Also....I've been to WDW enough times to know, one bad CM experience does not mean all of WDW has gone downhill.

I do chuckle at the poster who said the Disney GO-bug just hits her. DH and I always talk about taking a slow pace. Well, mostly DH wants a slower pace. Last summer I tried REALLY hard. I was all set to spend several quiet days at the resort....We got there and DH was bitten by the GO-bug! He's the one who refused to take a quiet pace! Go figure!

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Funny things about Disney food....if I compare the food Disney serves now, to what they 'used' to serve...I'd still say the food they serve now is way better than what they used to have. But I am thinking of days of nasty steamer-dish hamburgers they used to serve, alongside limp fries, and boring prepackaged 'salads.' Like icky potato salad (nothing against potato salad persay, just the version they served was boring.) I am also gald the erra of smoked turkeylegs everywhere has diminished, The smell always makes me want to hurl. Also, while not great WDW pizza is WAY better than the nasty ones they USED to serve.

Yes, there was a time around 2005 when Disney food was more intersting than what they serve now, but they was true for almost EVERY restaurant. I can't think of ANY restaurants that have not cut back and raised prices as a result of the recession. My local grocery store prices have also skyrocketed in the same time frame.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers that... I remember the turkey legs being their unique, standout fast food experience, and it was expensive as all heck (nobody remembers the price for those went DOWN for the better part of a decade) and if you wanted a quick serve that wasn't something too different then what you get at McDonalds, for about 5 times the price, you were just out of luck.

I remember a friend who said "You remember when the butter looked like Mickey? Those were better days for Disney food..." And I'm all like "I do, that was right around the time when, if it was super hot out, the grease smell of Cosmic Ray's dominated Tomorrowland and half of Fantasyland and they had to change from paper to Styrofoam because guests complained that the grease made the plates fall apart before they could get to a chair. They had issues with seagulls going into the trash because people were throwing away most of their fries." I remember when Rainforest Cafe went in DTD and everybody freaked out because Disney was "finally" getting great food and the walk up line, because they didn't do reservations, was hours upon hours long.

 

[bloodonthesaddle]

Inflation since 2003 has been approximately 2.4%

Day pass since 2003 has been approximately 5.5%

I can't find data on yty increases for hotel rooms except mousesavers assumes 3.2% when comparing DVC.

The point being: Factually Disney adjustments far exceed inflation, While the quality of the experience has decreased anecdotally for some. Myself included.

All commodities have increased in price in the last 10 years at a higher rate than inflation. Also the weakened exchange on the dollar has made it that much more cost effective for foreign visitors to visit WDW. My trips over the last 10 years I have noticed a lot more British, Brazilian and Canadian visitors than I had in the past.

 

[Planogirl]

I'm with those that will be skipping WDW. It doesn't make sense for us financially this year.

As for bang for the buck, that is in the eyes of the beholder. We can take many vacations less costly than going to WDW but those places might not appeal to everyone. Plus I think that sometimes the chance to rest and enjoy some peace and quiet is valuable too.

 

[brockash]

We have been going to disney yearly for the last 7 years, we live in NJ. We (especially me) have loved our trips there. However, I do believe we will skip this year because of the price increases and the extraordinary crowds that disney has been getting. I just can't justify spending so much money to go and wait in long lines for more money that we have ever spent before. Is anyone not going or taking some time off? I am really going to miss our yearly trip but hopefully we will enjoy other vacation destinations.

I completely understand your frustration. When I look at what we paid for our first trip 6 years ago, to now, it makes me sick to my stomach...not to mention the fact that many of us haven't received much of a raise, if any between then and now. I'm the biggest fan of our group that goes to Disney every year (we go with extended family, with 3 families total,) but I'm not sure how much longer we'll be keeping it up. It's really hard to justify, especially when many of them would be just as happy with a week-long beach trip, and it'd be so much cheaper. We already have 1 of the families that is bowing out this year, because they just don't want to spend the money, and it's harder and harder to justify spending that kind of money every year. I agree that I feel like the price increases are getting a little insane, and I know our visits to Disney are limited because of them. On the other hand, my kids are getting older and would probably enjoy experiencing some other things, so I suppose it's not all bad, just sad for me lol.

 

[LSUfan4444]

We have been going to disney yearly for the last 7 years, we live in NJ. We (especially me) have loved our trips there. However, I do believe we will skip this year because of the price increases and the extraordinary crowds that disney has been getting. I just can't justify spending so much money to go and wait in long lines for more money that we have ever spent before. Is anyone not going or taking some time off? I am really going to miss our yearly trip but hopefully we will enjoy other vacation destinations.

Yes, you have been paying more and getting less while at WDW. Along with just about every other vacation destination in the world that is trying to appeal to the cost conscious family.

For the most part, Disney costs what it costs. It is up to the individual vacationer to make their vacations are valuable as possible. You can increase what you get for your money, and that will increase the value for sure, but it is up to you to try and get the most for your money.

 

[Dis703]

I'm actually increasing our visits this year. We are also in NJ and have been 3 times in the last 7 years with our last trip being in 2010 with our then 2 year old. We now have twin toddlers and a 4 year old and are getting annual passes this year to plan for a second trip within the year and possibly a third. Part of the reason we are doing it this year though is to take advantage of the twins being under 3 still.

There are other places I'd like to go eventually when the kids are older, but for now it's all about Disney.

 

[flicx]

Not really. for me it's not a "one or the other" proposition. I think folks on these boards take disney really personally.
I still love disney and we do have good vacations but it just doesn't have all the value for my vacation dollars.





Not hard at all.

It depends on how you define value. from your post it seems like the dollar amount is your main determining factor. for me it's different.

For example for me it's food. I'd rather pay 10X's the price and be guaranteed a good meal then to get free dining and be served mediocre food. So for me free dining is absolutely the worst thing out there. Even if it's free, I hate lousy food. so I am getting less. I stay deluxe, I have no issue with the price but I do expect certain things for that price. I hate having a sub par room which I have had experience with at the world. Now I will tell the truth that all my complaints have always, always been rectified but once again I have had it often enough at the world where it's not a "one time" event. So yeah I do see it as 'getting Less".
So my description of "value" is not the same.
Pretty hard to find some thing else? Are you kidding. Sorry take the 500 dollars you pay at night at the GF and go to vegas. NO way can you compare the treatment you'd get at the Wynn, the Bellagio, the Venetian and say it's comparable. (Just my opinion). I'm comparing resort to resort, not cost of airfare.

So there are many ways to determine value. some it's the bottom line, some it's what you get for those dollars.

disclaimer: I am not saying what ever way you decide is the correct way only that there are many different ways. I just commented because you said it's hard to find comparable quality. IMO it's down right easy.

I think it is funny that vegas was brought up. Quite frankly for us Vegas destroys disney in cost/ value. I live in PA and I go to Vegas at least once a year. I have only spent over 200 dollars once to fly to Vegas and generally fly for between 150 and 175 roundtrip each year. Flying to Orlando is just slightly cheaper. The biggest difference is food and room costs for us. We have stayed at hotels in vegas which are comparible to the deluxes at disney for no cost/comped. When you are talking 300 to 400 a night at disney for the same rooms it does not take long for the savings to add up. As far as food goes it too is no contest,Vegas blows disney away. I eat a fabulous buffet at fremont street for 8.00 a person. It has better food than I have ever eaten at disney and at a fraction of the cost. Here is the thing my wife and I gamble but we keep it at 150 dollars a day,gambling at this level (both on same casino card) gets us free rooms. Now they also have a my vegas website on facebook where you can earn free showtickets and food for trips to vegas too! Overall it makes it a no brainer for us. For two people for three nights we have about 450.00 dollars before gambling invested going to vegas. That is all inclusive, air,food,taxi,room. I love disney but hey I gotta be realistic and do what I can more easily afford.

 

[akadada]

All commodities have increased in price in the last 10 years at a higher rate than inflation. Also the weakened exchange on the dollar has made it that much more cost effective for foreign visitors to visit WDW. My trips over the last 10 years I have noticed a lot more British, Brazilian and Canadian visitors than I had in the past.

Can you substantiate that point? A cursory review of commodity index ETFs to CPI does not agree. (Which may not be a fair comparison given ETF's are futures products).

Nonetheless, certainly a good point if true. While if not a 100% accurate, most likely at certain times certainly true.

And to expand, the observation of international visitors is a reflection of currency devaluation. Unfortunately for most here, though, we purchase Disney experiences in US Dollars.

That conversion issue is going the other direction of late, which bodes poorly for Disney if your observation is correct. Perhaps why everything increases.

 

[bloodonthesaddle]

Can you substantiate that point? A cursory review of commodity index ETFs to CPI does not agree. (Which may not be a fair comparison given ETF's are futures products).

Nonetheless, certainly a good point if true. While if not a 100% accurate, most likely at certain times certainly true.

And to expand, the observation of international visitors is a reflection of currency devaluation. Unfortunately for most here, though, we purchase Disney experiences in US Dollars.

That conversion issue is going the other direction of late, which bodes poorly for Disney if your observation is correct. Perhaps why everything increases.

Don't have data to substantiate across the board in front of me, however one example I do have is gas. February '99 I was in Atlanta for a college baseball tournament and a gallon of regular gas cost $0.89. Today according to gas buddy app a gallon of regular gas costs $3.68 in Atlanta. An increase of over 400%. Basic inflation accounts for an increase of 42% assuming 3%annual inflation if my math is correct. That 358% increase has been moved to the cost of the commodities that have to be transferred from point a to point b using a transportation method that uses fuel. An example of this is sugar in Hawaii costs more on the mainland because the sugar cane has to be shipped to California to the refineries and then the sugar has to be shipped back to Hawaii.

My second point about currency devaluation was more a reflection on the feedback of being more crowded in the parks because the foreign guests are now getting more for their money's worth and those paying with US Dollars gets less for their dollars worth in comparison, sorry for the delay.

 

[DisneyGal24]

Don't have data to substantiate across the board in front of me, however one example I do have is gas. February '99 I was in Atlanta for a college baseball tournament and a gallon of regular gas cost $0.89. Today according to gas buddy app a gallon of regular gas costs $3.68 in Atlanta. An increase of over 400%. Basic inflation accounts for an increase of 42% assuming 3%annual inflation if my math is correct. That 358% increase has been moved to the cost of the commodities that have to be transferred from point a to point b using a transportation method that uses fuel. An example of this is sugar in Hawaii costs more on the mainland because the sugar cane has to be shipped to California to the refineries and then the sugar has to be shipped back to Hawaii.

My second point about currency devaluation was more a reflection on the feedback of being more crowded in the parks because the foreign guests are now getting more for their money's worth and those paying with US Dollars gets less for their dollars worth in comparison, sorry for the delay.

Thank you! The summer of '99 was awesome and so were the gas prices. Everything has gone up in the last 10 years+!