I do feel the desire (not obssesion) to balance an argument concerning values and morals with rational thought.
I've watched this conversation from a-far .. or at least lurked without posting for a few days now.
I have some thoughts to add to the discussion .... expanding in part from Viki's thoughts on "faith".
While I think it's fair to say that I believe RHall (or anybody) has the right to believe that gay *anything* -- is wrong in his or her own faith... I also believe that anyone's right to that belief (or any other) terminates where my right to self-determination begins...
Society at large makes concensus, conscious choices about what it generally acceptable and not acceptable. In the grand scheme of things, how does me being gay -- change anyone else's life?
It does not... unless they choose to focus on it... to the exclusion of every other aspect of my being or of my life even.
If being gay were a choice.. or a decision.. or something that wishing or prayer could change -- one of those things would have worked on me by now.
I had a very long and difficult road to accept who I am and my own personal place in this world and my own personal relationship with God. In some ways, I wish everyone in the world had to travel a similar difficult path... maybe many of us do, I'm not sure. I do think, if each of us made such a similiar personal and introspective journey, it would make us all a little more understanding towards our fellow man/woman.
While it is true that I have little time for those who, acting on faith, believe I have no place in this world... I don't feel the same way towards them. I try to treat them and their beliefs with respect; be they Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim, Scientologist, Mormon or Wiccan. I have faith that if I do that much, God will sort it all out as He deems necessary, when and if He so chooses.
Some seem to believe that the very act of giving me basic rights and freedoms in this world; the very act of treating others with respect and honoring their basic humanity, somehow diminishes the rights and freedoms, respect and honor, 'left over' for them. That my marriage.. should I ever have one.. would somehow diminish the true meaning and covenant or your marriage with -your- God ?
How is that possible? How can my marriage or union before God, have that much power over yours?
I've never understood this thinking.
I know some feel strongly, passionately even that they are right. But such thinking leaves no room for the notion that maybe it's the Jews that will inherit the earth. Then what? Or what if it was really Mohammed that was the real son of God? Buddha? The Mormons? Scientologists?
How can we possibly know? We don't. We each individually make our choices for our relationship with God and we individually believe these things on
faith.
I cannot fathom that God would condemn to an eternity of ****, the people who were of different faiths than mine. That is billions and billions of people throughout the history of the time. My faith and my relationship with God tells me a just and loving God would not do such a thing. Regardless of who he or she is and which faith is 'right'.
And for those who believe I have no place in this world, I don't happen to believe that this one thought or belief shapes their entire being. I have faith in the inherent goodness of man.
Just as for me, being gay doesn't shape my entire being.
It's a small part of who I am.
Nobody has to accept it. But if I must accept that their beliefs are theirs to hold and cherish; and I accept their marriage as a union before God, I don't question that.... I accept the same respect in return.
Those who condemn this decision from Disney are welcome to do so. And they are welcome to withhold their dollars from the companies and organizations who do things they feel are against their belief structure. And they are free to shout from the rooftops their displeasure.
What these forces cannot do.. is ask me to change my personal being.. the very things that make me -- ME -- just because some don't agree or it makes them uncomfortable.
Calling me morally wrong.. leaves out a few words.. "morally wrong in your view in light of your relationship with your God." Remember above all, any individual, is but one fraction of the population of one religion.. which is in itself.. a small fraction of the religions and beliefs of the population on this Earth.
Someone can hold the belief that I am going to burn for all eternity if that is their faith. All I ask is they treat me with the same respect as any other human being on this planet. And that they have faith that God -- whoever's God - will sort it out when so required.
Have faith. It all comes down to having faith.
Faith. Have the faith to believe that if your personal belief structure is right -- your actions of condeming and judging are misplaced. That is God's work to do. In fact, if you are Christian, you know that He has specifically charged you with NOT judging and condemning.
He asks us, even commands us, on faith no less, to leave that work to Him.
And you know that Jesus, the son of God, frequently did some of his best work among the outcasts, the social and literal lepers of his time. He didn't condone the prostitute, the destitute, the homeless or the sinner; but he respected each as a human being. And He did not judge. And He was the son of God, free of sin, yet
He did not judge... In fact he went out of his way to show them respect and courtesy; to honor their basic humanity.
Faith. Have the faith and courage to believe that you can live near, around, beside and in communion with those with whom you might fundamentally disagree on the most basic of issues. And yet still share the common bond of the brotherhood/sisterhood of humans and mutual respect...
And have faith that in so doing, your own personal faith and beliefs cannot be corrupted by others; by their beliefs or even their actions. This will be a strong shining example of your faith and the love of God for all to see.
And you may actually grow as a person
and in your own personal faith and relationship with God.. whichever God that may be.
That.. is my rational thinking.
Knox