DISNEY if you don't want the average Joe to stay at the parks just say so...

[DVCcurious]

But Disney really is price-gauging, knowing people keep coming back for more regardless.

But their record-breaking profits aren't covering all that?.

There was a lot of stuff in this post but these are the two most relevant I wanted to comment on.

First, to paraphrase Inigo Montoya, I do not think "price gouging" means what you think it means.

If I open a lemonade stand on my street and charge $50 a glass am I price gouging? We'd all agree the price is too high, but I wouldn't sell any drinks so no one would be gouged.

Disney is 100% unneccesary. No one HAS to pay their prices (unlike price gouging at gas stations or grocery stores). So I just don't think of this as price gouging. I can't afford to take my family of 4 to a NY Giants game. So is the NFL price gouging? I can't afford a BMW, so is BMW price gouging? Some things in life are premium experiences and Disney is definitely one of them.

As for the second point: all companies want to maximize profits. Take a massive left wing corp like aaple: even they park money overseas to save taxes and maximize profits and apple is so left wing they threatened to pull out of Indiana over some gay law. Most companies would not sacrifice sales like that over a principle. Most companies are all about profits. So apple is about as socially concious as you can find. Disney is acting like every other company would act, so don't put them out there like they're a villain because they have "record-breaking profits". The reality is every company wants record breaking ever increasing profits year after year. Disney is acting responibly ( to their shareholders) when they cut costs and raise prices. It really is "the right thing to do", to quote Obi-Wan Kenobi, from a certain point if view.

there I gave you a princess bride and Star Wars quote. No one reading this can complain.

And the Obi-Wan quote was "from a certain point if view" not "the right thing to do."

 

[Don Disney]

I don't know your finances or your situation so this is just a general comment But people shouldn't feel like they have to give up WDW if they still want to go. Just rebel in place and stay offsite. Eat offsite more. There are such great offsite lodging deals. I know this doesn't help with the ticket prices but if you can save a boatload of money on the other stuff, then why not?

That's about the best way to do WDW IF you still want to go and save $$$$.....we have stayed on and off property several times,but I think our "on property days" are most likely over...I agree with you 100%!!!

 

[hookedonears]

Despite it being back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth, once upon a time I was a business management major in college and therefore am capable of understanding the statistics and accounting functions used in making management decisions. What I am suggesting is that, no matter what the forces pushing on the bottom line, it's only the bottom rungs of the ladder that are expected to take the hits, not the rocket scientists up at the top who have managed the circus into this farce where year after year of increasing attendance levels and price increases don't provide the revenue flow necessary to keep the front line CMs paid. You're welcome to explain away why this should be so. Don't expect me to line up, ready to take my spoonful of pixie dust and accept it.

A % of the increase in crowds comes from Locals (day trippers) who have annual passes and are now visiting the parks more often because of FP+ and or new attractions. These visits do not add to Disney's bottom dollar. The increase in crowd levels has increased revenues to the company, but said increases do not compensate for the massive outlay of capital for the new expansions that have occurred and will occur in the parks in the coming years. Any exec. with the mind set of lets gig our patrons a little more to pad our pockets, first would have never been hired and second would be run out of town by the Board in a heart beat.

 

[rastahomie]

Disney is under no obligation - financially, morally, politically, or whatever - to make the parks affordable to the Average Joe. It's a premium destination, even if you cut corners. There's a reason why it's been ten years since I've been there and will likely be five more before I can go. But that doesn't mean that I won't go.

 

[Madame]

There was a lot of stuff in this post but these are the two most relevant I wanted to comment on.

First, to paraphrase Inigo Montoya, I do not think "price gouging" means what you think it means.

If I open a lemonade stand on my street and charge $50 a glass am I price gouging? We'd all agree the price is too high, but I wouldn't sell any drinks so no one would be gouged.

Disney is 100% unneccesary. No one HAS to pay their prices (unlike price gouging at gas stations or grocery stores). So I just don't think of this as price gouging. I can't afford to take my family of 4 to a NY Giants game. So is the NFL price gouging? I can't afford a BMW, so is BMW price gouging? Some things in life are premium experiences and Disney is definitely one of them.

As for the second point: all companies want to maximize profits. Take a massive left wing corp like aaple: even they park money overseas to save taxes and maximize profits and apple is so left wing they threatened to pull out of Indiana over some gay law. Most companies would not sacrifice sales like that over a principle. Most companies are all about profits. So apple is about as socially concious as you can find. Disney is acting like every other company would act, so don't put them out there like they're a villain because they have "record-breaking profits". The reality is every company wants record breaking ever increasing profits year after year. Disney is acting responibly ( to their shareholders) when they cut costs and raise prices. It really is "the right thing to do", to quote Obi-Wan Kenobi, from a certain point if view.

there I gave you a princess bride and Star Wars quote. No one reading this can complain.

And the Obi-Wan quote was "from a certain point if view" not "the right thing to do."

I agree with you insofar as I don't think you can price gouge on a non-essential item.

As far as Apple goes, there is a big difference between a product-based & service-based industry. Apple's reputation is not really based on interactions with their staff etc. People are willing to pay a premium for the Apple brand at the moment as the are getting perceived ROI. For some this is no longer true of WDW.

Most don't give a toss about what companies do (sweatshops, child labour etc.), but when practices impact the product they receive... Disney can be as corporately 'responsible' as it wants, but it shouldn't be surprised when it gets bitten in the a$$ either.

 

[Don Disney]

What do you want? Dilapidated parks that never change? Street people walking down Main Street, so Disney can say they welcome everyone? Do you want WDW to be run like the government? Pretty soon, the only people going would be street people. Quit blaming Disney. They are a business and have to be run like a business. They have to compete with an ever increasing stiff competition. Disney's cost to keep up with the Jones's goes up every year. Yes, fewer and fewer people can afford to go. If you want to put the blame somewhere, put it where it belongs. Having a completely flat economy over the last 7 years. Blame the drop in average salaries in this country over the last 7 years. Blame for the first time in history, over 50% of Americans are considered below middle class. Blame the economy where kids are having to live at home longer, because they can't find jobs. Blame the fact that people are working fewer hours than ever before, because full time jobs are becoming harder and harder to find and the vast majority of new jobs created, are low wage and part time. The blame should rest on the American people 7-1/2 years ago.

You must have forgotten what the SURPLUS and Economical conditions were BEFORE 2001-2009.....things were MUCH better....the last 7 1/2 is a result of,and an improvement over that time period.Disney is just being greedy...just like the rest of the 1%ers that have 98% of the wealth in this country.Nobody wants the parks to decline...just value for the $$$$ spent.

 

[jliehr]

If TWDC is in business to make money(and I'm sure we can all agree that it is) and maximize shareholder returns then why would they want less customers? They are simply trying to find out what the consumer breaking point is. They keep raising prices and more people are standing in line to get in so why wouldn't they keep charging more.

They are about pure profit, they of course want customers, but more importantly, they want to maximize the profit off each customer. People who plan only with discounts, free dining, never buy the experiences or are locals on annual passes actually hurt from a profit standpoint. They'd rather replace you with someone who flies in and does it all because it's an experience and they want to maximize it and are willing to spend more money to do so.

If Disney thought that they could get away with dropping annual passes without a huge backlash they would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[hookedonears]

Let's just say it suspends disbelief to suggest that the numbers always work in favor of executive compensation. No matter how you slice it, that's not going to be possible 100-percent of the time. And apparently right now is exhibit A if they're calling guests to ask them to move their FPs during the Easter week because capacity in the shorter than normal hours for one of the busiest weeks of year doesn't match up to projected demand. That's not a front line problem, but that's where the headaches will be.

And lets look at it another way. Lets take the $53,000,000 in cuts to executive compensation and divide it by the total number of guest who visited Disney Parks Worldwide 2015, lets say 104,000,000 in 2014. Disney could give each guest a discount of 51 cents per park visit. 2015 attendance was higher so the discount would be lower.

 

[hookedonears]

You must have forgotten what the SURPLUS and Economical conditions were BEFORE 2001-2009.....things were MUCH better....the last 7 1/2 is a result of,and an improvement over that time period.Disney is just being greedy...just like the rest of the 1%ers that have 98% of the wealth in this country.Nobody wants the parks to decline...just value for the $$$$ spent.

Don't know what the heck you're talking about. Go to tradingeconomics.com and check the GDP over the last 30 years and the country has been heading south starting 7 years ago, and projections are for it to head farther south.

 

[Jadyreen1282]

You know I'm good with prices now. But if Mickey bars go up a nickel I am D-U-N.

 

[Davey Jones II]

I knew it. Doing very little research, I believe Disney employs around 185,000 employees world wide. A large number of those are part time, so it's hard to quantify the number of hours worked annually, though if they all worked an average of 37.5 hours per week x 52 weeks, that would be 360,750,000 hours worked per year. I believe the total executive compensation packages are worth around $106,000,000 per year. Lets say we cut the exec. pay in half., assuming they wouldn't all leave the next day. They'd have an extra $53,000,000 to pay the other employees. So $53,000,000 / 185,000 employees. Hay! we could give each employee $286.49 per year, or a 14.69 cents per hour raise. Take taxes and benefits out of that and the net is less and they wouldn't have any executives, because they'd all leave.

The second most important Cast Member is the CFO. To meet the projected return on investment and growth goals, he has to manage the corporation's debt, cash, revenues and expenses. Those are the major determining factors for stock price. People are complaining that the cost are going up and Disney is cutting back on services and quality. Example, number of characters in the parks are being reduced, or the restrooms are not as clean as they use to be. Yes these cuts do affect the overall guest experience in the parks, but Disney is banking that it wont reduce the number of guest visiting. Also, if Disney wasn't making these cuts, they'd have to either increase the debt of the corporation or increase the prices on everything even more than they have, and that really would reduce the number people coming. It's all a balancing act done by highly paid statisticians, accountants and economist within the long range planning division of the Corporation.

What nonsense. You make whatever assumptions you can think of to justify Disney's onerous behavior. Take the bolded above, for example. Suddenly Disney decides to gut their workforce and their hours, at a time of record profits and booming attendance, and you assume that they were forced to do it somehow. The parks are wildly popular right now, and extremely profitable, so what on earth is forcing them to make these cuts? (Sarcasm alert) Oh, these poor executives, they're so smart and so good at what they do, but they have to deal with such a DIFFICULT situation in their parks division. They don't want to, but they have to take it out on the CMs!

It's already been widely reported that the cuts are an arbitrary "robbing Peter to pay Paul" move, to cover up the company's cost overruns in Shanghai, losses with ESPN, and other assorted business blunders. Basically, the suits never want to bite the bullet and just admit that the company's overall earnings are not as strong as previous quarters. They cover up their mistakes by bashing their underpaid and overworked CMs and cutting corners in the guest experience.

If the executives are so good at their jobs and worth every penny, why do they reach for such a quick fix, bandaid solution? Aren't they supposed to think about the long term health and reputation of this company? When they do crap like this, they are undermining employee morale, hurting their own reputation and weakening the foundation of their workforce for years to come. Employee turnover -- already spectacular, according to many former and current CMs posting on these boards -- will only accelerate. The word will get out that Disney is not a good place to work, that you might be better off flipping burgers somewhere.

They are investing in the parks, and I applaud that. But investing in their workforce seems to be a foreign concept to them. That kind of investment may be just as valuable as adding new rides and lands.

 

[DVCcurious]

Disney is just being greedy...just like the rest of the 1%ers that have 98% of the wealth in this country.

When I read statistics like these I'm reminded if the old saying: 80% of stats you see online are made up

-the joke being that the 80% number is also completely made up.


As for the content I'll say this: if you broaden your scope to all 7 billion people on earth then the people who live in the slums of Detroit ARE the 1%ers.

Look up what the average standard of living is like in Mumbai, Rio, or most of Africa. It'll make you realize that YOU are the 1%.

 

[DVCcurious]

And lets look at it another way. Lets take the $53,000,000 in cuts to executive compensation and divide it by the total number of guest who visited Disney Parks Worldwide 2015, lets say 104,000,000 in 2015 (which is way low, but this number is impossible to quantify because of park hoppers etc.). Disney could give each guest a discount of 51 cents per visit.

And I'd take that .51 and buy myself 1/7th of a Mickey bar.

 

[Minnesota!]

I wouldn't care too much if WDW prices increased yearly by the rate of inflation or maybe a bit more, PROVIDED... Disney continued offering wonderful entertainment options. For us, 1999 and the next few years was WDW's heyday with Pleasure Island including the Adventurer's Club, the most unique entertainment I've ever experienced. We'd fly from Pa to Orlando just to spend 5 nights there. A full schedule of musical offerings in WS to say nothing of the World Showcase Players, the list of great options is nearly endless. To squeeze the nickel until the buffalo bleeds while cutting corners is the very definition of greed. Charge what you want but provide value. A lot of value has been eliminated.

Bill From PA

Exactly! The price hikes I can deal with – we will find ways to save or to make it more manageable. But, when I am paying MORE for a LOT LESS…that is where I get feisty and start canceling trips!!! If I am going to work a ton of overtime, save my tax refund, and make my kids wear hand me downs so I can enjoy your product, you damn well better put some effort into your product!

I noticed that many of the people in this thread who are complaining about price increases coupled with the service decreases still have countdown tickers in their signatures. It's always "after this next trip we won't be going any more." Disney will continue to take more and give less until they feel the pain in their wallets. If you truly don't like what is happening cancel your reservations and don't make any more until things change for the better. I understand that it's not easy. I myself just cancelled a 5 night package at CSR for this June that we had following our RCCL cruise, after hearing about the recent service cuts. I sent Disney an email explaining the reason for cancelling and also detailed my frustrations to a representative that called about my email. I realize that in the grand scheme of things it means absolutely nothing to Disney, but if a lot more people did the same thing, they would have to take notice.

Oh, how I wish I “could” cancel. There are 4 of us in our family. Each of us has celebrated our birthday at Disney…except my oldest son. It has been his wish since 2008 to have his birthday there. Timing never worked till this year. So, June is still on. However, August and December have been canceled. We will be visiting Universal/Busch Gardens/ocean/Sea World.

I can deal with the ticket price increases and the tiering and even paying extra for staying at a Disney resort hotel. But they do not need to increase the price of food and beverage while decreasing the quality. I can't deal with that.

Yep. Don’t take my buckets money and give me crap in return.

 

[W.E.D.]

Less is not 1/8 of the price and a Marroitt is not a luxury/high-end hotel.

Really. Directly across the Thames from Parliament. The Paganis, Aston Martins and Ferraris I saw coming through the gate must have just been for show.

UGH. What am I doing feeding into this argument. What this all boils down to is you either think TWDC is wrong or you don't. You either have the money to visit, you save it up, or you don't. Dropping out of this thread in search of some happier threads!!

 

[hookedonears]

What nonsense. You make whatever assumptions you can think of to justify Disney's onerous behavior. Take the bolded above, for example. Suddenly Disney decides to gut their workforce and their hours, at a time of record profits and booming attendance, and you assume that they were forced to do it somehow. The parks are wildly popular right now, and extremely profitable, so what on earth is forcing them to make these cuts? (Sarcasm alert) Oh, these poor executives, they're so smart and so good at what they do, but they have to deal with such a DIFFICULT situation in their parks division. They don't want to, but they have to take it on the CMs!

It's already been widely reported that the cuts are an arbitrary "robbing Peter to pay Paul" move, to cover up the company's cost overruns in Shanghai, losses with ESPN, and other assorted business blunders. Basically, the suits never want to bite the bullet and just admit that the company's overall earnings are not as strong as previous quarters. They cover up their mistakes by bashing their underpaid and overworked CMs and cutting corners in the guest experience.

If the executives are so good at their jobs and worth every penny, why do they reach for such a quick fix, bandaid solution? Aren't they supposed to think about the long term health and reputation of this company? When they do crap like this, they are undermining employee morale, hurting their own reputation and weakening the foundation of their workforce for years to come. Employee turnover -- already spectacular, according to many former and current CMs posting on these boards -- will only accelerate. The word will get out that Disney is not a good place to work, that you might be better off flipping burgers somewhere.

They are investing in the parks, and I applaud that. But investing in their workforce seems to be a foreign concept to them. That kind of investment may be just as valuable as adding new rides and lands.

Guest retention isn't the highest priority for Disney. Their highest priority is making a profit for this year and future years to come. They know that if you don't want to come back, there're plenty others to take your place. Sounds pretty short sited, but it's been working out pretty well for them. And yes, Corporations shake up management multiple times in subsidiaries that aren't carrying their load. If that doesn't work, they sell or spin them off. It's how all Corporation work. Some subsidiaries like ABC serve duel roles like a marketing and public relations division for the Corporation, so a built in loss is tolerable. It's hard to understand however, why Disney allows the news division to continue losing money. It's a self inflicted loss.

 

[Bullseye]

It's not really a matter of people on the disboards boycotting WDW. It's a matter of people who really love Disney and enjoy WDW, taking enough of a stand to let Disney know that their guests actually matter. Right now, the Disney executives are only worrying about their bottom line. Whatever they do, people just suck it up and continue to visit the complex. You can't really blame them, because if they can offer an inferior product that is significantly cheaper and all of the minions continue to come, why not? I've been going to WDW since 1972 when I visited for the first time in a stroller. I've seen a lot of progress in that time frame, but overall, I would say that the product in general has not improved at all. The park back then was immaculately clean. Food was higher quality. CM's seemed to enjoy their jobs and wanted to make guests happy. If I want to go to a so so amusement park I can drive 3 hours from my home and go to Six Flags a lot cheaper.

Yes, but you're assuming everyone is dissatisfied as you. There's a ton of folks on these boards that don't even weigh in on these threads because they are satisfied and don't want to get dragged into the mire of discussing everything people dislike about Disney. Calling people minions just because they don't feel the same way you do is childish.

Every year there's another crisis whether it's ride closures, construction, monorail cutbacks, FP+, dining degradation, price increases, napkins, etc. Yet, not one of those things have yet to affect me in a bad way once I get there again. Comparing Disney today to 1970's Disney is not even realistic. I have no idea if cheeseburgers were better when I was there 40, 30, or even 20 years ago. It's a cheeseburger for crying out loud, at 8 years old I didn't take any mental notes . I just ate it and went on my way. The parks probably were cleaner in the 1970's, but it's not exactly like the place is a "dump" nowadays. It's still a pretty awesome place to hang out .

I just look at it from the perspective of am I still getting enough value for my money compared to other vacation choices and the answer is a resounding yes. Every year we stay in a awesome villa at a beautiful resort, we eat great TS meals and decent CS meals, and we are entertained from early morning until late, late night. And that's all for about $85 a day per person. I'm just not anywhere close to the same point as some of you who think the Disney experience is not worth the money anymore . And for what it's worth, as a shareholder I expect Disney executives to look at their bottom line every day .

 

[hookedonears]

What nonsense. You make whatever assumptions you can think of to justify Disney's onerous behavior. Take the bolded above, for example. Suddenly Disney decides to gut their workforce and their hours, at a time of record profits and booming attendance, and you assume that they were forced to do it somehow. The parks are wildly popular right now, and extremely profitable, so what on earth is forcing them to make these cuts? (Sarcasm alert) Oh, these poor executives, they're so smart and so good at what they do, but they have to deal with such a DIFFICULT situation in their parks division. They don't want to, but they have to take it out on the CMs!

It's already been widely reported that the cuts are an arbitrary "robbing Peter to pay Paul" move, to cover up the company's cost overruns in Shanghai, losses with ESPN, and other assorted business blunders. Basically, the suits never want to bite the bullet and just admit that the company's overall earnings are not as strong as previous quarters. They cover up their mistakes by bashing their underpaid and overworked CMs and cutting corners in the guest experience.

If the executives are so good at their jobs and worth every penny, why do they reach for such a quick fix, bandaid solution? Aren't they supposed to think about the long term health and reputation of this company? When they do crap like this, they are undermining employee morale, hurting their own reputation and weakening the foundation of their workforce for years to come. Employee turnover -- already spectacular, according to many former and current CMs posting on these boards -- will only accelerate. The word will get out that Disney is not a good place to work, that you might be better off flipping burgers somewhere.

They are investing in the parks, and I applaud that. But investing in their workforce seems to be a foreign concept to them. That kind of investment may be just as valuable as adding new rides and lands.

You just don't like statistics that go against your core belief and understanding. My statistics may not be exactly right, but they're in the ballpark. Look them up.

 

[Livvie]

Yes, but you're assuming everyone is dissatisfied as you. There's a ton of folks on these boards that don't even weigh in on these threads because they are satisfied and don't want to get dragged into the mire of discussing everything people dislike about Disney. Calling people minions just because they don't feel the same way you do is childish.
.

Yes, it is. So is calling people "drama llamas" who don't feel the same about Disney as they used to.

 

[Ninja Mom]

I have to say that I have enjoyed reading this thread. The one thing that I wanted to point out is the opinion that has been raised that those of us that are invested in Disney social media (Dis boards, other forums, twitter, Face book etc) are in the minority as park guests and thus are not really influential to a large enough degree with Disney management.

Because I have gone to WDW frequently in the past, many of my friends and family who don't go or who don't care to be plugged in to the happenings and trip planning knowledge depend on me for advice about how to go about planning a trip. They know that I go and that I know what I am doing when it comes to a Disney vacation.

When I run the number$ with them and explain that they will have to plan their trips with a military like precision, that they will be in the Florida heat in long lines, eating low quality food and they will be paying premium prices, that they will be staying at very expensive hotels that no where near reflect the price paid per night except for the benefit of "Location" and they will be on the receiving end of disappearing customer service and Disney "Magic", they look at me like I am crazy. They can't believe that this is the Disney vacation that they are going to experience.

If they can get past the high price of food, tickets and lodging many of them are completely turned off by the fact that they will have to pick table service restaurants 180 days out. "But I went last week and I could get Be Our Guest at 7:30 at night!" some of you say. Well.... eating that late doesn't always translate so well for this reason or that. The bottom line for the dining equation is that if you are going to WDW and you don't know the ropes AND you have your heart set on eating at a particular place during reasonable hours for your family you'd better be safe and book 180 days out, assuming that there is even availability with all the crowds flocking to Disney and being herded the same way.

Then I explain the concept of FP+ and the herding that occurs with that. I tell them that FP+ insures that they will get on 3 rides relatively quickly and then wait in longer lines (because of FP+) everywhere else. No more happy wandering in the theme park for them. The concept that the standby line can be really short but that it will advance so slowly because every person with a FP, even those who aren't even in line yet, will have priority over them is met with incredulous stares. I explain that Disney spins the positive impact that herding people can have on their trips while conveniently leaving out all the negatives. Those negatives are there for them to experience after they have plunked down thousands of dollars and it's too late.

Then I talk about all the staff and entertainment cuts paired with multiple price increases across the board. I explain that during the recession, when Disney should have been AHEAD of the curve and expanded it's domestic parks in anticipation of the inevitable economic upswing, they spent the money on outdated rubber bracelets that have been made obsolete by smart phones. Then there is all the money that was spent designing and building Shanghai Disney, propping up under performing foreign theme parks and the construction delays at Pandora. Let us not forget the anemic Fantasyland expansion at MK in WDW.

Then I get to the part where despite record profits WDW guests are being continuously price gouged to pay for these blunders because, well, Disney just can command that kind of money.

Then I ask them if THIS is the type of money they want to spend for this kind of a vacation experience? I explain to them that Disney is depending upon them being trapped in the bubble and that the whole Disney experience is being engineered these days to provide the least to the guest for the most amount of money. I call this the new Disney "Magic". Then I explain that they are much better off NOT staying on Disney property since virtually every other external accommodation is less expensive and frequently offers a better value for the money spent. I recommend that they rent a car, spend the least number of days at WDW and explore all the other wonderful things that Orlando has to offer for a family vacation. I explain that the competition has been catching up and in some cases beating Disney at it's own game.

There is a tipping point that each of us has as to whether Disney is still "worth it". The only thing that separates those of us who are Disney savvy thanks to social media, and the majority of people who aren't, is experience. Once those who aren't experienced go on a trip to WDW and see for themselves I doubt they will be back. After all, when you have more and more hardcore Disney vacation fans realizing that the parks are in a death spiral due to all of these unfortunate decisions, how long will it take for the rest of the vacationing demographic to catch on.

~NM