disney grand california sale start 1-25-09 for founding members

[taysmom]

I think DVC is just shooting themselves in the foot with the 100pt min. to buy in and the rumored (with good reason) $95 fee to use points at the Calif. hotels. Why? Because most of their target market are Calif. or West Coast residents, who probably make multiple trips to DLR per year. Most stay less than a week, and book less than 6 months out. I for one, can find excellent accomodations in walking distance of the parks for less than the $95 'exchange fee' they want to charge, plus the privilege of using an exhorbinant number of points per night. Especially if I am only staying 2 nights. It just seems they are pricing themselves out of the market to some degree if they implement that $95 charge. As much as I love staying at the DLR hotels, there are lots of options in the area and some are very nice and much less expensive.

As far as using the DVC points in CA., I'm not sure how many truly 'long distance travelers' are chomping at the bit to buy VGC (GCV?) but it is unlikely there is a large contingent who will plan their trips 11 - 7 months ahead and stay for a week, and do that every year like people do for the DVC properties in FLA or even HH. I'm sure some times of the year will be impossible to get, but I won't be surprised if there is some availability during the year for the casual DVCer. Of course, I could be wrong (it's certainly happened before!)

I am now kicking myself for buying more points than I needed in order to become a Founding Member, only to discover that the minimum buy in is 100 points. That is way more than I was ever intending to purchase.



Thank you! I have some HH points that I would love to convert to GCV.

I agree! When I spoke to my guide last week. I was very disappointed to learn that there was a good chance that the buy in was changing to 100 min. I had seen my guide in May 2008 and spoke to her about wanting to buy in to california and hawaii over the next years. Our conversation focused on 25 points for cash buy in and 50 plus if you wanted to finance. I left in may feeling very confident about owning at both properties. Since speaking with her last week, I have decided to put off california and hold out for hawaii. I live in cal. and can schedule my vacation when rooms are available over when I have time. It's a quick drive down so no biggie. I'd rather have the 11 month time for hawaii, since I need to fly to get there. I don't know how well BLT is selling, but now is not the time to increase the requirements. Especially when both WDW, DL and DCL are all advertising discounted prices and specials to keep the parks full. I do not need the extra points, I just need the booking window.

And I too would love the magic fairy want to convert my SSR to VGC!

 

[lurkyloo]

As someone who has rented DVC points in the past, I find it interesting that the weekend point requirement for a studio in Choice season would "cost" $40-$100 more (if rented at $10-$12 per point) than the AP rate we paid for a hotel room there during the same season, just a few weeks ago.

 

[Grumpygrandpa]

As someone who has rented DVC points in the past, I find it interesting that the weekend point requirement for a studio in Choice season would "cost" $40-$100 more (if rented at $10-$12 per point) than the AP rate we paid for a hotel room there during the same season, just a few weeks ago.

Interesting observation. However the studio is much nicer than the hotel room (maybe not enough to justify the difference).

 

[pyrxtc]

I'm very disappointed with the points chart if he "leaked" one is correct. I figured it would be more on par wiht AKV's concierge points per night but it is way over. We're looking at an additional 70 points per week to stay in a room the same size with no concierge service.

Yes, I was planning on a staying a week, actually I was planning to stay out in CA for 2 and what better place to stay.

 

[maburke]

Interesting observation. However the studio is much nicer than the hotel room (maybe not enough to justify the difference).

Okay, but let's compare apples to apples. I am looking at a 1BR in Magic Season. At BCV, the point values are 30 weekdays and 60 weekends. The cash rack rate is around $510/night. So that's why some people might pay cash for weekends and points during the week. At VGC, according to the leaked chart, a 1BR in Magic season is 46 points weekdays and 80 on weekends. If the cash rate is anything like Beach Club (and I think the hotel rack rates are comparable), then the points just don't seem worth it. I get that I'm guaranteeing availability at 11 months, and I really want to buy (I promised my sister I would, so we could visit her in LA regularly), but I'm not sure it makes financial sense.

 

[Grumpygrandpa]

Okay, but let's compare apples to apples. I am looking at a 1BR in Magic Season. At BCV, the point values are 30 weekdays and 60 weekends. The cash rack rate is around $510/night. So that's why some people might pay cash for weekends and points during the week. At VGC, according to the leaked chart, a 1BR in Magic season is 46 points weekdays and 80 on weekends. If the cash rate is anything like Beach Club (and I think the hotel rack rates are comparable), then the points just don't seem worth it. I get that I'm guaranteeing availability at 11 months, and I really want to buy (I promised my sister I would, so we could visit her in LA regularly), but I'm not sure it makes financial sense.

I have 300 SSR points. I have used my points for an 8 day stay once in FL since I bought in 05. I liked SSR and was amazed at far my points went at a DVC resort, but living on the West coast makes it hard to get out there. I lose a day on each end of the vacation in travel and have to spend over $2,000.00 in airfare for us all to go. My DL AP doesn't work out there so I have the extra expense of DW tickets. I bought my points with the intention of using them primarily at DL. So for me personally the comparison that matters is the point difference between what I have been spending at the GC Hotel and what I will have to spend at the GCV. For a DCA or Pool view Hotel room in 2009 the points range for the four different seasons are 29/47,30/49,38/61 and 41/66. For a studio at the GCV the range will be 15/27,17/29,23/40 and 27/46. As I mentioned before I think the studios are much nicer than the hotel rooms. I do agree that DVC points go much further at DVC resorts (excluding BLT and GCV). But for me I want points at GCV.

 

[tjkraz]

As someone who has rented DVC points in the past, I find it interesting that the weekend point requirement for a studio in Choice season would "cost" $40-$100 more (if rented at $10-$12 per point) than the AP rate we paid for a hotel room there during the same season, just a few weeks ago.

That's hardly unique to VGC.

A Beach Club Villas Studio in Dream season is 29 pts for a Fri or Sat night. At $10-12 per point you're looking at $290 - 348 for a rental. That's within throwing distance of Rack Rates and can certainly be beaten with AP rates.

Many members don't consider Rack Rates, point rentals or other savings methods when considering how to use their points. Others view the initial investment as a sunk cost (it's gone--why worry about it) and just consider the dues component. On that basis, 29 pts for a weekend night x dues of $3.82 per point is only $110 per night for the stay.

 

[dcfromva]

. For a DCA or Pool view Hotel room in 2009 the points range for the four different seasons are 29/47,30/49,38/61 and 41/66. For a studio at the GCV the range will be 15/27,17/29,23/40 and 27/46. As I mentioned before I think the studios are much nicer than the hotel rooms. I do agree that DVC points go much further at DVC resorts (excluding BLT and GCV). But for me I want points at GCV.

I agree with you on the hotel to studio comparision. The other factor is the points at the GCH have been higher in previous years and they flucuate from year to year (of course the GC option will most likely go away, but the points for DLH and PP will probably go up).
<sigh!> It is so hard to decide. I don't think we would need as many points if we were planning on staying in a studio. That may be what we end up doing since DS is on the verge of getting out on his own, but I feel like we have to get a few more points just in case he would still care to join us on our future CA vacations. I tend to look at it the way you do. The last visit we had two rooms as well as our upcoming visit in March. The March visit is 25 X 2 = 50 pts per night (makes the 1br point values look better. ) .

 

[Grumpygrandpa]

Well my guide finally called me and it looks like the leaked point chart at DVC news is accurate. So I'm in. 200 to start with. Now I just have to figure out if I should sell my SSR points or rent them out. Any of you financial types out there have an opinion on which is the better decision.

 

[drag n' fly]

I agree! When I spoke to my guide last week. I was very disappointed to learn that there was a good chance that the buy in was changing to 100 min. I had seen my guide in May 2008 and spoke to her about wanting to buy in to california and hawaii over the next years. Our conversation focused on 25 points for cash buy in and 50 plus if you wanted to finance. I left in may feeling very confident about owning at both properties. Since speaking with her last week, I have decided to put off california and hold out for hawaii. I live in cal. and can schedule my vacation when rooms are available over when I have time. It's a quick drive down so no biggie. I'd rather have the 11 month time for hawaii, since I need to fly to get there. I don't know how well BLT is selling, but now is not the time to increase the requirements. Especially when both WDW, DL and DCL are all advertising discounted prices and specials to keep the parks full. I do not need the extra points, I just need the booking window.

And I too would love the magic fairy want to convert my SSR to VGC!

Wow you nailed exactly how we feel. We purposely bought in DL for founding members reasons. Dh and I are now waiting for Hawaii

 

[JW9DVC]

Two sixty point contracts are sounding good to me!!! Couple nights for Christmas, I can Bank and Borrow to get even more. 120, yeah, it seems so right. I live less than 100 miles from here. I used to commute those miles everyday to work here.

I will purchase on my Birthday when Im at Disneyland. 02-10. JW

 

[Laurabearz]

Two sixty point contracts are sounding good to me!!! Couple nights for Christmas, I can Bank and Borrow to get even more. 120, yeah, it seems so right. I live less than 100 miles from here. I used to commute those miles everyday to work here.

I will purchase on my Birthday when Im at Disneyland. 02-10. JW

According to reports you wont be able to buy two 60 point contracts, only one 120.


4 days until the sales start and all we have it the "leaked" point chart and bits and pieces of info that we have placed together.

Anyone else wondering when we will get the real official information?

 

[maburke]

That's hardly unique to VGC.

A Beach Club Villas Studio in Dream season is 29 pts for a Fri or Sat night. At $10-12 per point you're looking at $290 - 348 for a rental. That's within throwing distance of Rack Rates and can certainly be beaten with AP rates.

Many members don't consider Rack Rates, point rentals or other savings methods when considering how to use their points. Others view the initial investment as a sunk cost (it's gone--why worry about it) and just consider the dues component. On that basis, 29 pts for a weekend night x dues of $3.82 per point is only $110 per night for the stay.

But it's not sunk until we buy, and we are trying to decide whether to buy. And I'm not comparing points for hotel room vs. points for villa, I'm comparing points for villa vs. cash rates for villa through CRO (if it's called that at DL). Members certainly DO consider cash rates when considering how to use their points -- that's why you see the advice here a lot for people considering the cruise to just rent out their points and pay cash for the cruise.

 

[tjkraz]

But it's not sunk until we buy, and we are trying to decide whether to buy. And I'm not comparing points for hotel room vs. points for villa, I'm comparing points for villa vs. cash rates for villa through CRO (if it's called that at DL).

Well, we don't even know what CA villa rates will be at this point.

Regardless, my point was simply that it's not a new phenomenon for weekend points costs (when valued at the ambiguous $10-12 each) to be comparable to cash rates.

Members certainly DO consider cash rates when considering how to use their points -- that's why you see the advice here a lot for people considering the cruise to just rent out their points and pay cash for the cruise.

Some certainly do. Many, many more simply use the points as they see fit without performing a cost/benefit analysis for each day of the week. Over the years I've heard countless people on this forum state that they simply bought enough points to cover their 6-7 night (or longer) stay and simply accept the fact that more of those points go toward the weekend.

Yes the weekend points are high...at ALL DVC resorts. As are the point costs for DCL, Concierge Collection, non-DVC resorts and so on. But far more people use points for those destinations than choose to rent their points. There are about 3000 DVC rooms now and unless you believe there is a single-digit weekend occupancy, the volume of points used toward those stays far exceeds postings on the rent/trade forum.

 

[maburke]

Regardless, my point was simply that it's not a new phenomenon for weekend points costs (when valued at the ambiguous $10-12 each) to be comparable to cash rates.

Agreed. But I'm guessing that the cash rate will be comparable to Beach Club (and that is a guess), and compared $510 per night, 46 points is not a great deal for a weeknight, and 80 points is a terrible deal for a weekend. I get that weekends might not be a good deal at the DVC resorts, but if NEITHER weekday nor weekend points usage saves me money over cash rates, I just can't justify the use of points, and therefore the purchase of points at that resort.

I want to buy, I really, really do.

 

[dwelty]

That's hardly unique to VGC.

A Beach Club Villas Studio in Dream season is 29 pts for a Fri or Sat night. At $10-12 per point you're looking at $290 - 348 for a rental. That's within throwing distance of Rack Rates and can certainly be beaten with AP rates.

Many members don't consider Rack Rates, point rentals or other savings methods when considering how to use their points. Others view the initial investment as a sunk cost (it's gone--why worry about it) and just consider the dues component. On that basis, 29 pts for a weekend night x dues of $3.82 per point is only $110 per night for the stay.

As an DL annual passholder, I would also like to add that the discount the OP mentioned was an amount not seen for several years. We are in the middle of a recession and hotel occupancy at both Disneyland and Walt Disney World is at all time lows. For the next year I would not be suprised to see additional discounts such as this one. However, once the economy improves, these discounts tend to go away. In 2007 there were only a handful of AP discounts at Disneyland, and they were meager indeed. DVC is a savings over the long run. It is not a fair comparison due to the financial climate of Early 2009.

 

[tjkraz]

Agreed. But I'm guessing that the cash rate will be comparable to Beach Club (and that is a guess), and compared $510 per night, 46 points is not a great deal for a weeknight, and 80 points is a terrible deal for a weekend. I get that weekends might not be a good deal at the DVC resorts, but if NEITHER weekday nor weekend points usage saves me money over cash rates, I just can't justify the use of points, and therefore the purchase of points at that resort.

I want to buy, I really, really do.

If you're looking at it from the perspective of whether to buy or not, I don't think rentals are even a concern. Renting points for a weekend stay is definitely not the way to go.

The question is whether you are better off continuing to pay cash for GC stays or buying points. Mousesavers.com has a good purchase analysis to help with some calculations.

Basically you need to spread the up-front purchase over the life of the contract. At $107 per point (net) for 50 years, you're paying about $2.14 of your purchase for each year's points plus the annual dues. With 2009 dues of $3.82, the total point cost for '09 is about $5.96. So a Magic Season One Bedroom on the weekend (80 points) is going to run you about $476. That's without any allowance for interest--either interest paid if you finance or interest lost by putting the money in DVC in the first place.

Ultimately the question is whether or not AP rates will get you a One Bedroom villa during Magic Season for less than $476 (plus interest.)

Peripheral concerns include things like:

1. Will there even be 1B villas available at cash rates, much less discounted cash rates?
2. Will discounts continue to be as attractive as they are in 2009?
3. How disappointed you will be if you cannot secure that size room for cash?
4. Are you willing to jump from a points stay (weekdays) to a cash stay (weekends) during your trip?

Buying DVC points for almost exclusive weekend use will probably not yield favorable results. But I suspect most owners who use points for weekends at WDW do it because they don't want to be limited to trips of 5 days or less and don't want the hassle of jumping from cash to points or DVC resort to non-DVC just to save a few dollars.

 

[bethy]

As an DL annual passholder, I would also like to add that the discount the OP mentioned was an amount not seen for several years. We are in the middle of a recession and hotel occupancy at both Disneyland and Walt Disney World is at all time lows. For the next year I would not be suprised to see additional discounts such as this one. However, once the economy improves, these discounts tend to go away. In 2007 there were only a handful of AP discounts at Disneyland, and they were meager indeed. DVC is a savings over the long run. It is not a fair comparison due to the financial climate of Early 2009.

I am also a DL passholder and this has been my experience also. There have been times when we've struggled to even get a room at a DLR resort at the regular rates. Up until this past year they have been booked, booked, booked. Even the GCH at $450 per night.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

As an DL annual passholder, I would also like to add that the discount the OP mentioned was an amount not seen for several years. We are in the middle of a recession and hotel occupancy at both Disneyland and Walt Disney World is at all time lows. For the next year I would not be suprised to see additional discounts such as this one. However, once the economy improves, these discounts tend to go away. In 2007 there were only a handful of AP discounts at Disneyland, and they were meager indeed. DVC is a savings over the long run. It is not a fair comparison due to the financial climate of Early 2009.

Actually, the AP4 discounts offered in the Fall of 2007 were better than those offered in 2008 or so far in 2009 (except the Military discount startin at $119). Rates of $309 for GCV concierge rooms or $279 park view were available thru mid-Dec (including the weekend of the CP) and were as low as $129 for PP.

Even in 2006, we decided that GCV ws more than we wanted to pay at $209.

It is a valid point that you will need to shop around for the best rates if you don't buy GCV and that sometimes those rates will not be that atractive or available when you need them. However, I find that I have other acceptable options for lodging at DL to a much greater extent than at WDW. Maybe its because I grew up staying off-site at DL (or we just made a day trip since we only lived 3 hours away).

On the other hand, we bought at BWV because I was tired of waiting for the "code" to be released. When the economy turns around, I may feel the same way about rooms at DL and will kick myself that I didn't buy at GCV when I had the chance. You are free to say "I told you so" when that happens. -- Suzanne

 

[ToodlesRN]

We did a point add to AKV and got all the paperwork in the mail today, in our paperwork is the chart to GCV called "preopening 2009 points Chart" and it is the same exact on DVC news.

Looking forward on deciding how many points we will add on, on the 25th!