Disney Genie+ and ILL$ Details & FAQ - Launches 10/19 at WDW, Paid "FastPass" at WDW and Disneyland (date TBD)

[Liquidice]

Unless you're using a ticket that includes hopping, the presence of 3 other parks means nothing, since your one day ticket only gets you into one park. Those other 3 parks bring their own revenue.

You're right, but the parks did expand and get more attractions over time, I was simply trying to say that even though Disney invested into the parks to add more rides - and they obviously spent more money to build the other parks, they did not increase the price of a ticket significantly.

 

[Leight19]

I guess my thoughts on the back and forth is that we are sort of in a prisoners dilemma situation here. The way Disney world built their queues relies heavily on the use of fast pass. If no one were to pay for the new upcharges I feel Disney would have to roll back to being free or the park queues wouldn’t be sustainable.

I personally can easily afford these upcharges and could argue it’s worth the cost for me personally to use if shorter waits but I feel like supporting these changes with my money is supporting a bigger, long term problem with direction Disney management is going. Therefore I will not pay for these changes and will do anything I can to encourage others to not as well.

 

[Tigger's ally]

likewise…never understood the endless fanboys that would defend something they knew didn’t make sense.

Don't know how you can't understand Disney fanboys being on Disney forums. Makes absolute perfect sense to me.

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

Several posts that were rude, attacking, and off topic were deleted. It is okay to disagree with each other. What is not okay is name calling, discussion of merits whether someone should post here or not, or rude posts. Also, this is a planning board and posts should be relevant to the initial post and thread.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I personally can easily afford these upcharges and could argue it’s worth the cost for me personally to use if shorter waits but I feel like supporting these changes with my money is supporting a bigger, long term problem with direction Disney management is going. Therefore I will not pay for these changes and will do anything I can to encourage others to not as well.

this. I'm really happy to see someone else say this. While i can afford to pay these continued upcharges on things, but the reason they keep happening is because we keep paying them. They arent going to stop the increases and cutbacks until there is pushback from the consumer.

We've been saying for years that they are testing the limit and at some point they'll reach too far and pop the bubble. The consumer has to pop the bubble.

 

[ThistleMae]

I think as long as we can squeeze out a satisfying experience by using EMH and rope drop as well as getting in line at park close, some of us who are discouraged by the changes will eek out an acceptable, albeit reduced, experience. I think I might try, like some folks, to combine a WDW trip with a UNI trip in the future if Genie + is a fail for me. I've never combined WDW with UNI. Not sure I would stay outside of the bubble though because that is just too much of a loss of the feeling of Disney for me. So maybe less days there and other days somewhere else. Hoping for the best...it remains to be seen.

 

[MrBellatrixLestrange]

this. I'm really happy to see someone else say this. While i can afford to pay these continued upcharges on things, but the reason they keep happening is because we keep paying them. They arent going to stop the increases and cutbacks until there is pushback from the consumer.

We've been saying for years that they are testing the limit and at some point they'll reach too far and pop the bubble. The consumer has to pop the bubble.

I'm with you both in spirit but it would be hard for me to justify to most of the rest of my group not spending an extra $15 when they are only going to be coming every few years (even less now probably) and have already spent a substantial amount of money getting there and getting in. For those of us that have already done the parks numerous times, such as myself, that's a trade we can probably make and I may opt to not pay with some group members that won't ride too much regardless. We have, however, already discussed the frequency of returning and may have reconsidered this year's trip had we known of the increase.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I'm with you both in spirit but it would be hard for me to justify to most of the rest of my group not spending an extra $15 when they are only going to be coming every few years (even less now probably) and have already spent a substantial amount of money getting there and getting in. For those of us that have already done the parks numerous times, such as myself, that's a trade we can probably make and I may opt to not pay with some group members that won't ride too much regardless. We have, however, already discussed the frequency of returning and may have reconsidered this year's trip had we known of the increase.

reducing frequency even if you purchase the add ons, makes a difference. We wont stop going to disney, however we've moved our trips from yearly (sometimes more than once per year) to once every 2 years.

 

[Leight19]

reducing frequency even if you purchase the add ons, makes a difference. We wont stop going to disney, however we've moved our trips from yearly (sometimes more than once per year) to once every 2 years.

Ive also thought this way as well; whether I’d pay for genie plus and just go less often. This could end up saving us/costing Disney more money in long run so maybe valid option to protest changes but I fall into category (at least this part of life) where I enjoy going to parks, doing few rides (flexible for whatever is low waits), taking break back at pool and lunch at resort then going back into different park for few more rides and dinner. I’m dvc and likely will get annual passes so it’s not much price diffence for me to do 50% as much per day over 2x length of time (room size for dvc just changes) but I appreciate sentiment for those who fall into different category.

I just think this paid fast pass is worst of all recent changes. Descriptions of how it operates make it sound like it’s designed to drive impulse buys after people suffer in line and see others breeze past them for “only a few dollars”. The best analogy I’ve heard is micro transactions for video games which has killed interest in several video game companies for me. It’s even worse in some ways because paid fp/front of line access creates financial incentive for Disney parks to run inefficiently to drive people to paid option. If you go during slow period with low waits generally will Disney just take the loss income of paid fast pass or will they tweak things to make standby lines longer to drive sales? I’d hope they don’t operate this way but I would almost guarantee someone in some division somewhere will have their performance rating tied to revenue generated by paid fast pass so it’s a huge risk to future enjoyment.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I just think this paid fast pass is worst of all recent changes. Descriptions of how it operates make it sound like it’s designed to drive impulse buys after people suffer in line and see others breeze past them for “only a few dollars”. The best analogy I’ve heard is micro transactions for video games which has killed interest in several video game companies for me. It’s even worse in some ways because paid fp/front of line access creates financial incentive for Disney parks to run inefficiently to drive people to paid option. If you go during slow period with low waits generally will Disney just take the loss income of paid fast pass or will they tweak things to make standby lines longer to drive sales? I’d hope they don’t operate this way but I would almost guarantee someone in some division somewhere will have their performance rating tied to revenue generated by paid fast pass so it’s a huge risk to future enjoyment.

I think what you are saying here in bold is pretty illegal, that would be deceptive sales practices, and not allowed. Personally i think Disney is implementing Genie to try and help the parks run more efficiently, considering some of their rides are 3 hour waits now, they probably want to tone that down to get more people to visit the parks. I think that word of mouth probably hurts them especially when people come back from a summer vacation, and tell their friends not to bother going, because all you do is stand in line all day long, that in particular has been a problem for years

 

[BrianL]

I think what you are saying here in bold is pretty illegal, that would be deceptive sales practices, and not allowed. Personally i think Disney is implementing Genie to try and help the parks run more efficiently, considering some of their rides are 3 hour waits now, they probably want to tone that down to get more people to visit the parks. I think that word of mouth probably hurts them especially when people come back from a summer vacation, and tell their friends not to bother going, because all you do is stand in line all day long, that in particular has been a problem for years

I agree. I don't think it's so much that Disney is driving us to the paid option but rather that we drove them to paid options. We have expressed our insatiable demand for their product. We have overwhelmed their bandwidth. We have told them it's okay to raise prices because we will still pay it. They have to do things to manage us better, and unfortunately that means pricey initiatives. Now, I don't love everything about it, nor am I sure some of it will even go over that well, but they are doing this for a lot of reasons - and yeah, padding the bottom line is one of them for sure, but managing the unprecidented number of guests is a big part of it too.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I think what you are saying here in bold is pretty illegal, that would be deceptive sales practices, and not allowed. Personally i think Disney is implementing Genie to try and help the parks run more efficiently, considering some of their rides are 3 hour waits now, they probably want to tone that down to get more people to visit the parks. I think that word of mouth probably hurts them especially when people come back from a summer vacation, and tell their friends not to bother going, because all you do is stand in line all day long, that in particular has been a problem for years

I don't see how that would be illegal at all. They already don't run rides at full capacity during slower times (ie: second track at space mountain, etc.). I fully expect to see more of that to drive people to genie during low times.

 

[BrianL]

I don't see how that would be illegal at all. They already don't run rides at full capacity during slower times (ie: second track at space mountain, etc.). I fully expect to see more of that to drive people to genie during low times.

I think the difference is that reducing staffing and therefore capacity during slow times is a normal practice but if they cut capacity jonly to guide people to paid options, that would be deceptive. That said, there would really be no way to tell why they have cut capacity, unless they were doing it during very busy times. Staffing is such a mess right now anyway that I doubt it would be possible to know. However, I really don't think they will need to be doing anything shady to drive guests to the paid options. Genie+ at any rate is an easy sell I think.

 

[Marionnette]

Genie+ is an easy sell? Really? Then why the intense backlash? Maybe because it comes across like this:

GUEST: The parks are too crowded and the lines are too long.

DISNEY: Well, we're introducing Genie+ to make your park experience better.

GUEST: That's great! Where do I get this Genie+

DISNEY: It's on the app. Just pay $15 for the day and it's yours.

GUEST: $15. That doesn't sound bad. And that covers my whole family?

DISNEY: Oh, no. That's just for you. Everyone in your family has to pay for Genie+

GUEST: But I just paid over $400 to get my family into the park. Now you want more money? Does this get us immediate access to every ride?

DISNEY: That's the beauty of Genie+. You reserve a ride window for select attractions and then you can shop or dine and spend even more money, then come back when your time is up.

GUEST: You said select attractions. Do you mean to tell me that after paying additional money, there are still attractions that aren't included in Genie+?

DISNEY: Of course! Our most popular attractions are only available thru individual attraction selection and they are a separate charge.

GUEST: Well, how much is that going to cost me?

DISNEY: Anything that we feel like charging that day.

GUEST:

 

[BrianL]

Genie+ is an easy sell? Really? Then why the intense backlash? Maybe because it comes across like this:

I wouldn't really call the backlash that intense - maybe against the individual paid attractions, but Genie+ has been likened to MaxPass, which was actually quite popular and well received. I do in fact think it will sell. I also believe that the individual attractions will sell, at least int eh case of Rise and Ratatouille, mabe FOP. I think they may run into issues trying to tier up Space Mountain and such with that though. The thing is, people are paying - they may complain, but they're still doing it. WE are still doing it. They have no reason to change it as long as we do, and guests have demonstrated that, at this time, they will.

 

[Wreckem]

Genie+ is an easy sell? Really? Then why the intense backlash? Maybe because it comes across like this:

GUEST: The parks are too crowded and the lines are too long.

DISNEY: Well, we're introducing Genie+ to make your park experience better.

GUEST: That's great! Where do I get this Genie+

DISNEY: It's on the app. Just pay $15 for the day and it's yours.

GUEST: $15. That doesn't sound bad. And that covers my whole family?

DISNEY: Oh, no. That's just for you. Everyone in your family has to pay for Genie+

GUEST: But I just paid over $400 to get my family into the park. Now you want more money? Does this get us immediate access to every ride?

DISNEY: That's the beauty of Genie+. You reserve a ride window for select attractions and then you can shop or dine and spend even more money, then come back when your time is up.

GUEST: You said select attractions. Do you mean to tell me that after paying additional money, there are still attractions that aren't included in Genie+?

DISNEY: Of course! Our most popular attractions are only available thru individual attraction selection and they are a separate charge.

GUEST: Well, how much is that going to cost me?

DISNEY: Anything that we feel like charging that day.

GUEST:

The comment about instant access, even at Universal with express you don’t get instant access to the ride. The queue yes unless the ride is at capacity but not the ride. As someone who has been to Universal and Disney extensively during Christmas, I’ve been in my fair share of 2 hr express pass lines. And issues with rides at capacity.

Paid line cutting is the industry norm. Disney has just adopted it. Much like they have done in their other parks. Genie+ will sell as well as max pass, maybe even better. I don’t see many people paying per ride for seven drwarves, space mountain or most of the pay period ride, rides. Will probably have the same uptake as the club level fast passes.

 

[Marionnette]

I wouldn't really call the backlash that intense - maybe against the individual paid attractions, but Genie+ has been likened to MaxPass, which was actually quite popular and well received. I do in fact think it will sell. I also believe that the individual attractions will sell, at least int eh case of Rise and Ratatouille, mabe FOP. I think they may run into issues trying to tier up Space Mountain and such with that though. The thing is, people are paying - they may complain, but they're still doing it. WE are still doing it. They have no reason to change it as long as we do, and guests have demonstrated that, at this time, they will.

MaxPass was well-received because you could pull paper FastPasses (for free) as well. You could thereby double-dip.

MaxPass also allowed stacking. Which permitted the guest to obtain multiple back-to-back passes for later in the day. The guest was able to pick a return time hours later in the day. When 90 minutes passed, they could then choose another attraction for later in the day. Another 90 minutes and they could grab another pass. It was possible to have 3, 4 or even 5 passes to breeze between rides later in the day.

Between MaxPass stacking and the free paper FPs, a guest could spend very little time actually waiting in any lines. That's why MaxPass was popular.

By all indications, stacking is not going to be possible with Genie+. You will be offered "next available" time slots, not any slot you wish to choose. Remove that stacking ability and eliminate free FP and I don't think you're selling the same product.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I wouldn't really call the backlash that intense - maybe against the individual paid attractions, but Genie+ has been likened to MaxPass, which was actually quite popular and well received. I do in fact think it will sell. I also believe that the individual attractions will sell, at least int eh case of Rise and Ratatouille, mabe FOP. I think they may run into issues trying to tier up Space Mountain and such with that though. The thing is, people are paying - they may complain, but they're still doing it. WE are still doing it. They have no reason to change it as long as we do, and guests have demonstrated that, at this time, they will.

I agree that there really isn't a way for anyone to check on them (baring an investigation), all I'm saying is that no business puts plan/ policy in place knowing that the goal is to deceive their consumers.

 

[Marionnette]

The comment about instant access, even at Universal with express you don’t get instant access to the ride. The queue yes unless the ride is at capacity but not the ride. As someone who has been to Universal and Disney extensively during Christmas, I’ve been in my fair share of 2 hr express pass lines. And issues with rides at capacity.

Paid line cutting is the industry norm. Disney has just adopted it. Much like they have done in their other parks. Genie+ will sell as well as max pass, maybe even better. I don’t see many people paying per ride for seven drwarves, space mountain or most of the pay period ride, rides. Will probably have the same uptake as the club level fast passes.

At Universal, you don't get on the attraction instantly but you do get to access the Express Lane immediately.

 

[BrianL]

MaxPass was well-received because you could pull paper FastPasses (for free) as well. You could thereby double-dip.

MaxPass also allowed stacking. Which permitted the guest to obtain multiple back-to-back passes for later in the day. The guest was able to pick a return time hours later in the day. When 90 minutes passed, they could then choose another attraction for later in the day. Another 90 minutes and they could grab another pass. It was possible to have 3, 4 or even 5 passes to breeze between rides later in the day.

Between MaxPass stacking and the free paper FPs, a guest could spend very little time actually waiting in any lines. That's why MaxPass was popular.

By all indications, stacking is not going to be possible with Genie+. You will be offered "next available" time slots, not any slot you wish to choose. Remove that stacking ability and eliminate free FP and I don't think you're selling the same product.

You couldn't pull any time you wanted with MaxPass either. Yes, tehre has been no mention of stacking, but most seem to think this will be an unadvertized feature, at least when you end up pulling one for much later in the day. I think the new system will try to avoid that anyway, so it may be moot anyway. Yes, tehre has been some general moaning about Genie+ but overall I think it has been well received - don't use the DIS as the barometer. And again, even if people do complain, if they still pay for it, which I believe they will, then it doesn't much matter. Guests at other parks pay for it already, though I do believe part of the "Disney Difference" was that they didn't charge for such things, I also can't really blame them. It's fair to criticise them on that of course, but there's also no need to calim doom and gloom about it either. We'll just see how it goes.