Disney finally Made Me Mad

[morethananyonex]

Beneficial to who?

I tend to think that if you have a 5 year old and you just saved up enough to go to WDW for the first time (and might not go again for a long time if at all)...seeing Winnie the Pooh in person would be much more alluring than TT or Soarin.

You say beneficial as in "what would save you the most time in line", but you're assuming that all people care about the same rides as you. To many many people, skipping a M&G line with an anxious child is more beneficial than going on a "kind-of thrill ride".

So again, why is the Character Spot not just as popular as Soarin' and TT? Why is it not pulling hoards of people away from booking Soarin' and TT FP+, like apparently Pooh and Tigger will? Why did the tiers have to be implemented at all, because plenty of tier 2 options should appeal to families with small children because of their names (Nemo, Crush, etc) more than Soarin or TT would? What about Beauty and the Beast fans who are still not booking Beauty and the Beast FP+ in huge numbers?

You keep talking about this as if Pooh and Tigger can only be found at this one spot. They are at Crystal Palace, 1900 Park Fare breakfast (I think Pooh is?), outside the Winnie the Pooh ride, and they were at AK until this new FP+ business kicked them out of their spot in favour of Donald and Daisy. That's just off the top of my head, they may be elsewhere too.

I mean, you started off saying that anybody with a Pooh loving child is definitely going to be booking this instead of Soarin' or TT, so why have the Mickey, Goofy, Minnie, Belle, Fantasmic, Nemo, Crush, and Michael Jackson lmao loving children not been pulling bookings away from the big rides in DHS and Epcot?

 

[famy27]

Beneficial to who?

I tend to think that if you have a 5 year old and you just saved up enough to go to WDW for the first time (and might not go again for a long time if at all)...seeing Winnie the Pooh in person would be much more alluring than TT or Soarin.

You say beneficial as in "what would save you the most time in line", but you're assuming that all people care about the same rides as you. To many many people, skipping a M&G line with an anxious child is more beneficial than going on a "kind-of thrill ride".

But in the past, this was never either/or. The Pooh M&G almost never had a line. At various times of the year and at different points of the day, I don't think I ever waited more than 5 minutes for that. Soarin' and TT are different animals entirely.

FP+ only really adds nothing here. Adding FP+ as a Tier 2 would have been fine and dandy, even if it was unnecessary. But FP+ only (FP-POO, TM DrankTheKoolaid), and especially as a Tier 1, is ludicrous.

Why can't the family with the 5-year-old do both, as they easily could have, pre FP+ or FP-POO?

 

[bcrook]

Beneficial to who?

I tend to think that if you have a 5 year old and you just saved up enough to go to WDW for the first time (and might not go again for a long time if at all)...seeing Winnie the Pooh in person would be much more alluring than TT or Soarin.

You say beneficial as in "what would save you the most time in line", but you're assuming that all people care about the same rides as you. To many many people, skipping a M&G line with an anxious child is more beneficial than going on a "kind-of thrill ride".

Your argument is valid. There might be 800 pooh slots a day. There might be 800 people out of the 40000 in Epcot during peak times who only want Pooh. In that case, a perfect match for those 800. They need to plan in advance most likely.

This is basically appointment riding for attractions. Just like ADRs.

What it does though is explicitly say that the 30000 people who chose TT or soarin or maelstrom for tier 1 can not see Pooh. The old system at least allowed people the chance of doing both.

The new system is in-your-face exclusionary. The old system was not exclusionary, it just favored the more informed. The uninformed didn't know any better anyway.

 

[bcrook]

But in the past, this was never either/or. The Pooh M&G almost never had a line. At various times of the year and at different points of the day, I don't think I ever waited more than 5 minutes for that. Soarin' and TT are different animals entirely.

FP+ only really adds nothing here. Adding FP+ as a Tier 2 would have been fine and dandy, even if it was unnecessary. But FP+ only (FP-POO, TM DrankTheKoolaid), and especially as a Tier 1, is ludicrous.

Why can't the family with the 5-year-old do both, as they easily could have, pre FP+ or FP-POO?

Disney is trying to create demand for attractions. The more feeding frenzies the better.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

The new system is in-your-face exclusionary. The old system was not exclusionary, it just favored the more informed. The uninformed didn't know any better anyway.

What you're forgetting is that the old system of FP- was exclusionary to MOST guests. If you weren't commando, you might stand in standby lines for 2 or 3 big rides and then their kids would likely already be getting tired and/or cranky....time to stop for lunch etc.

They couldn't do all the best attractions....but "some" guests could.

I do not believe for one second that Disney made these choices on a whim. They most likely had a lot of feedback from guests to the effect of 'we wish we could have seen Minnie and Pooh".

 

[Big Daddy Incredible]

Just one more steaming pile of poo (pun intended). All this reading about creating demand is giving me a freakin' headache. I go to Disneyworld in large part to leave my everyday problems behind. Now I got to shove my face in a mobile device or run to a kiosk (which ironically is very very similar to the old fastpass system) to get hooked up with a meet and greet with Tigger and Pooh? C'mon, how much more complicated are the suits trying to make my trip?

If the suits move forward with this, I hope Tigger and Pooh are tucked away out of sight. It would be a crying shame for a little kid to see Tigger and Pooh, only to be told that he or she can't visit them because they don't have a Tier 1 fastpass.

 

[agavegirl1]

Disney is trying to create demand for attractions. The more feeding frenzies the better.

Re-posting my post from page 2:

This is so unbelievable! If it weren't so sad, I'd be ROTFL. I don't see that there will be anything special about these M&Gs. I think the popularity of Anna and Elsa had deluded Disney into thinking they can create demand for previously not very desired attractions by limiting supply instead of increasing the supply of desired attractions to meet the demand.
__________________

 

[Rosanne]

Did a little looking around in MDE and the FP+ Only is only available through May 24. Lends credibility to the idea of it being a test ... or (cue ominous music) ... something even more sinister is just around the corner...

As an aside, its a little surprising that no one has yet to abbreviate Fast Pass+ Option Only as FP-POO.

In all seriousness, the last week has made us realize how little control we have over our trip next month, despite a generous portion of planning. We booked flights, made (and paid for) resort reservations, paid for tickets, scheduled ADRs and picked FP+, all several months or weeks ahead of time. But Disney has the option to change just about any element of our vacation with about 24 hours notice. Opening the new ride or adding the additional fastpasses are good, others not so good, but all have caused us to have to stop and rethink if our plans were still good.

That said, I guarantee we're going to go have a good time, because that's what we do on vacation, ya know?

I agree so much with what you said above (bolded in blue). I already have tickets for my group (bought before the price increase two increases ago). I'm not a fan of the changes but due to my kids being the age that they are and the youngest really wanting to go (we opted not to go in April) we might go in August. I'd really rather wait until the next spring break or even August 2015 but my older daughter has a school trip next spring and we have a wedding summer of 2015 so those are out.

So... it's either this summer or wait close to another two years. So... I was thinking about booking but it seems everything is still so undependable. I'd hate to have my sis book a flight to join us and then have things shift beneath us in a way that further disappoints. For my girls and me it wouldn't matter so much as we drive and could easily cancel.

This not knowing what they're doing next is unnerving for me.

 

[famy27]

What you're forgetting is that the old system of FP- was exclusionary to MOST guests. If you weren't commando, you might stand in standby lines for 2 or 3 big rides and then their kids would likely already be getting tired and/or cranky....time to stop for lunch etc.

They couldn't do all the best attractions....but "some" guests could.

I do not believe for one second that Disney made these choices on a whim. They most likely had a lot of feedback from guests to the effect of 'we wish we could have seen Minnie and Pooh".

I'm confused. How could they not have seen Pooh? The M&G at EPCOT and AK rarely had a line. MK had a line from time to time but Pooh was certainly available. It would be easy as could be to see them. And Minnie is everywhere. We saw her tons of times, often with no wait.

The new FP+ only would be more likely to generate the "I wish we could have seen Pooh" e-mails, when the non-planner, non-commando person walks by the Pooh M&G and tries to get in line and is turned away, as they have used their FP+ Tier 1 for something else already. I think not having a SB option will generate some orneriness for sure.

One question for anyone in the parks now. If this goes live in a few days, how are the queues for the M&Gs looking? Have they changed them in any way? I would think these would almost have to be behind a curtain like the Visa M&G or there will be some big trouble with angry guests.

 

[bcrook]

What you're forgetting is that the old system of FP- was exclusionary to MOST guests. If you weren't commando, you might stand in standby lines for 2 or 3 big rides and then their kids would likely already be getting tired and/or cranky....time to stop for lunch etc.

They couldn't do all the best attractions....but "some" guests could.

I do not believe for one second that Disney made these choices on a whim. They most likely had a lot of feedback from guests to the effect of 'we wish we could have seen Minnie and Pooh".

Only 800 guests get to see pooh at Epcot. The old system allowed anyone the opportunity to get in line and wait to see pooh. The volume of the line was the limiting factor.

The new system uses rations to determine who the 800 are. Now 39200 walk in the park knowing they can't see pooh.

There is a difference in perception. This is why the initial gut response to this is that it is crap.

The same thing would happen IF the mine train went totally appointment. On any given day, any person could get in the standby line and wait. But if it was a tier one FP only ride only 24,000 would get a slot. 54000 people a day would walk into the park knowing that they could not ride the mine train. And there would be no chance of a second ride.

What could happen?

1. Some of the 24000 would be thrilled with the limited wait and ride.
2. Some of the 24000 would be disappointed in the barnstormeresque ride
3. Some of the 24000 would be disappointed because they couldn't ride the mine train again.
4. Some of the 54000 would unphased by not getting to ride the ride.
5. some of the 54000 would be frustrated that they couldn't ride the ride.

The Disney Bean Counters are gambling on a lot 1 and 4. Hoping 2,3,5 are limited.

 

[agavegirl1]

I recall in 2010 walking into the area of Epcot of the Pooh M&G and being annoyed that Pooh was messing with my shopping.

 

[bcrook]

Re-posting my post from page 2:

This is so unbelievable! If it weren't so sad, I'd be ROTFL. I don't see that there will be anything special about these M&Gs. I think the popularity of Anna and Elsa had deluded Disney into thinking they can create demand for previously not very desired attractions by limiting supply instead of increasing the supply of desired attractions to meet the demand.
__________________

But the meet greets are popular. And the slots are few.

Overall I agree with your sentiments.

 

[practicallyperfect77]

Beneficial to who?

I tend to think that if you have a 5 year old and you just saved up enough to go to WDW for the first time (and might not go again for a long time if at all)...seeing Winnie the Pooh in person would be much more alluring than TT or Soarin.

You say beneficial as in "what would save you the most time in line", but you're assuming that all people care about the same rides as you. To many many people, skipping a M&G line with an anxious child is more beneficial than going on a "kind-of thrill ride".

ITA that skipping a M&G line with an anxious child can be more beneficial son some vs skipping a thrill ride. Differs t strokes for different folks. I can't wrap my head around having a FP+ only is going to cause people not to FP+ Soarin' or TT. As others have mentioned I don't think the issue is having a FP+ for a M&G available is a bad thing. It's the "ONLY" part I'm struggling with and think is pretty craptastic.

 

[practicallyperfect77]

So again, why is the Character Spot not just as popular as Soarin' and TT? Why is it not pulling hoards of people away from booking Soarin' and TT FP+, like apparently Pooh and Tigger will? Why did the tiers have to be implemented at all, because plenty of tier 2 options should appeal to families with small children because of their names (Nemo, Crush, etc) more than Soarin or TT would? What about Beauty and the Beast fans who are still not booking Beauty and the Beast FP+ in huge numbers?

You keep talking about this as if Pooh and Tigger can only be found at this one spot. They are at Crystal Palace, 1900 Park Fare breakfast (I think Pooh is?), outside the Winnie the Pooh ride, and they were at AK until this new FP+ business kicked them out of their spot in favour of Donald and Daisy. That's just off the top of my head, they may be elsewhere too.

I mean, you started off saying that anybody with a Pooh loving child is definitely going to be booking this instead of Soarin' or TT, so why have the Mickey, Goofy, Minnie, Belle, Fantasmic, Nemo, Crush, and Michael Jackson lmao loving children not been pulling bookings away from the big rides in DHS and Epcot?

Thanks for your response. You stated this in a much better way than I could have.

 

[practicallyperfect77]

Only 800 guests get to see pooh at Epcot. The old system allowed anyone the opportunity to get in line and wait to see pooh. The volume of the line was the limiting factor.

The system uses rations to determine who the 800 are. Now 39200 walk in the park knowing they can't see pooh.

There is a difference in perception. This is why the initial gut response to this is that it is crap.

The same thing would happen IF, the mine train went totally appointment. On any given day, any person could get in the standby line and wait. But if it was a tier one FP only ride. 56000 people a day would walk into the park knowing that they could not ride the mine train. And there would be no chance of a second ride.

What could happen?

1. Some of the 24000 would be thrilled with the limited wait and ride.
2. Some of the 24000 would be disappointed in the barnstormeresque ride
3. Some of the 24000 would be disappointed because they couldn't ride the mine train again.
4. Some of the 54000 would unphased by not getting to ride the ride.
5. some of the 54000 would be frustrated that they couldn't ride the ride.

The Disney Bean Counters are gambling on a lot 1 and 4. Hoping 2,3,5 are limited.

Wanted to say thanks for all the number crunching you do. I am actually a bean counter and thoroughly enjoy looking at this type of thing. I do not like the idea of FP+ only for anything...M&G or rides. I can't imagine the thought of arriving at MK at RD knowing that I couldn't "walk briskly" to a ride and get on in under 10 mins and knowing I wouldn't be able to ride at all b/c I was unable to get a FP+.

 

[practicallyperfect77]

I'm a poor judge because I thought that legacy was easy and very noticeable due to the kiosks outside of the fp rides. I'm told now though that it was hard to understand and a ton of people never used them some even if they understood them. I consider FP+ more complex than legacy due to the tiering. It would seem particularly difficult to decide what to go for if you've never been to WDW.

I don't know, it just seems strange that so many people who didn't get it will now understand what I feel like is a more complicated system. But then I'm probably wrong.

If most people know that the meet and greets are poor choices then why is Disney offering them? It'll be interesting to see how quickly they run out.

I am a poor judge too b/c I thought it was easy as well. I think the idea of picking rides in advance could be very overwhelming for newbies too. The difference is marketing of FP+. I would love to know how far in advance most first timers plan a visit. I would think there has to be time available for Disney to bombard newbies with FP+ material. I am def interested in seeing how long the FP+ for characters (non A&E) last.

 

[bcrook]

Wanted to say thanks for all the number crunching you do. I am actually a bean counter and thoroughly enjoy looking at this type of thing. I do not like the idea of FP+ only for anything...M&G or rides. I can't imagine the thought of arriving at MK at RD knowing that I couldn't "walk briskly" to a ride and get on in under 10 mins and knowing I wouldn't be able to ride at all b/c I was unable to get a FP+.

Your welcome.

And I agree. I do not like the idea of FP"+" only for anything either.

I guess we have a new official category. FP+-Only. Mesaboy's D priority.

Another banner day in the evolution or devolution of the fastpass system.

I guess I should update the blog.

 

[practicallyperfect77]

Your welcome.

And I agree. I do not like the idea of FP"+" only for anything either.

I guess we have a new official category. FP+-Only. Mesaboy's D priority.

Another banner day in the evolution or devolution of the fastpass system.

I guess I should update the blog.

Oh...what's your blog?

 

[jodeeb]

I agree so much with what you said above (bolded in blue). I already have tickets for my group (bought before the price increase two increases ago). I'm not a fan of the changes but due to my kids being the age that they are and the youngest really wanting to go (we opted not to go in April) we might go in August. I'd really rather wait until the next spring break or even August 2015 but my older daughter has a school trip next spring and we have a wedding summer of 2015 so those are out.

So... it's either this summer or wait close to another two years. So... I was thinking about booking but it seems everything is still so undependable. I'd hate to have my sis book a flight to join us and then have things shift beneath us in a way that further disappoints. For my girls and me it wouldn't matter so much as we drive and could easily cancel.

This not knowing what they're doing next is unnerving for me.

This is how I feel. We are going June 5 - 15. We just paid it off a few weeks ago and expect our magic bands any day. I struggled with the thought of pre planning FP+ 60 days in advance, but once I concocted our strategy and they announced the 4th fast pass, I was starting to think this may work for us. Then I was able to get 7DMT FP+ I was still thinking this may be okay.

My 50th birthday is the same day as Donald's bday and we had AK planned for that morning. I really wanted a picture with him on our bday and thought that the standby line would not be that bad, but thinking about sacrificing our FP+ for a M&G and giving up a headliner seems ridiculous knowing that the standby line was not that bad.

But now Disney announces that certain things will be FP+ only and be Tiered?? That's too much! I knew all along that the FP+ was going to be used to control crowds, but making certain things FP+ only with tiring is going a bit far. Are we now going back to the E ticket rides and you only have so many in your ticket book? When you think about it, now you have one tier one FP+ to start with. So now if you want to ride/experience a tier 1 ride, you must choose.

You only start out with one tier 1 ride(AKA E ticket ride).

Sure you may get a revolving FP+, but who knows what type of ride/experience will be available. And if they start eliminating standby for M&G, when will they start eliminating them for other attractions. If I want to wait an hour in a line I should be able to do so.

Okay... I'

 

[agavegirl1]

But the meet greets are popular. And the slots are few.

Overall I agree with your sentiments.

Thanks for that. Thankfully, these changes will not affect my plans. Also, no mention on the Walt Disney World Facebook page.