"Disney Faulted in Disability Access Complaints"

[mistysue]

Part of the increase in wheelchairs is probably people who use a wheelchair full time who didn't bother going to the parks 20 years ago. And there are still rides that some guests can't ride because they can't transfer or because they can't be stopped. And you don't see too many lawsuits asking Disney to add a lift system to POTC to get people on and off the boats or add an accessible vehicle to Peter Pan or HM or an alternative viewing experience for Soarin. The funny thing is, I think that those last 3 are pretty reasonable (at DL for Peter Pan, anyway) and wouldn't impact the ride operations that much. But the expectation that certain guests should be allowed to cut to the front of the line and loop the ride multiple times is much more impactful.

This puzzles me, not only that they don't already have something set up for non-transferring on those rides, but that nobody has filed a lawsuit for that... yet we have a lawsuit for people demanding constant endless FP's as a rights issue. It would seem like such a very miniscule percentage of people who need a DAS would ever have NEED for endless instant fast passes... like MAW sort of small... a small enough number that it couldn't even be as high as the number of people who have come just to this board alone to say the new system doesn't work. My DD is well within the range where many would deem a GAC or DAS necessary, so I do get the frustrations and complications involved. It is a hard debate about what is necessary for cognitive needs, but you have one group getting extra fastpass rights and another being completely denied any version of the ride in any form whatsoever. The the lawsuit coming from the group who still gets to ride seems backwards.

 

[aaarcher86]

This puzzles me, not only that they don't already have something set up for non-transferring on those rides, but that nobody has filed a lawsuit for that... yet we have a lawsuit for people demanding constant endless FP's as a rights issue. It would seem like such a very miniscule percentage of people who need a DAS would ever have NEED for endless instant fast passes... like MAW sort of small... a small enough number that it couldn't even be as high as the number of people who have come just to this board alone to say the new system doesn't work. My DD is well within the range where many would deem a GAC or DAS necessary, so I do get the frustrations and complications involved. It is a hard debate about what is necessary for cognitive needs, but you have one group getting extra fastpass rights and another being completely denied any version of the ride in any form whatsoever. The the lawsuit coming from the group who still gets to ride seems backwards.

I believe some of that stuff has to do with safety. Just like some amputees not being able to ride certain roller coasters.

 

[dbramer]

yet, none of the plaintiffs believe their actions are the reasons for the change. In other words, they would say they aren't the problem, they had legitimate needs that were being met by only allowing immediate access. It was ridiculous, it was unsustainable, and it directly caused the non-GAC visitor to get shortchanged every time they entered a line. Most reasonable people know why the GAC was changed to the DAS, and most reasonable people know that the DAS provides the EXACT accommodation that most GAC users were asking for. They were handed it on a silver platter and still it's not good enough, because like was said earlier, the real accommodation that they're looking for, and always have been looking for, is immediate access to any ride, as often as they want. It just can't happen.

This is why Disney will probably prevail in the lawsuits....they rely on the reasonable person standard....what a reasonable person would see as equitable.

 

[mistysue]

I believe some of that stuff has to do with safety. Just like some amputees not being able to ride certain roller coasters.

Yes, which would explain why people might not win those lawsuits. It does not explain why there is not an excited public anti-Disney momentum toward lawsuits about it.

 

[nugov2]

I didn't read through the thread, but did anyone see this comment by someone after the article:

1. Laura Spurrell says:
   March 10, 2015 at 3:54 pm
   We just quit going to Disneyland, because our son could not handle waiting in the lines after they changed their policy. He has an intellectual disability and severe ADHD. Under the old policy he loved going to Disneyland and it is one of the few times his sisters thought he had any value in the world.
   

I cannot imagine saying something so awful or raising other children to think so little of their brother.

 

[aaarcher86]

I didn't read through the thread, but did anyone see this comment by someone after the article:

1. Laura Spurrell says:
   March 10, 2015 at 3:54 pm
   We just quit going to Disneyland, because our son could not handle waiting in the lines after they changed their policy. He has an intellectual disability and severe ADHD. Under the old policy he loved going to Disneyland and it is one of the few times his sisters thought he had any value in the world.

I cannot imagine saying something so awful or raising other children to think so little of their brother.

I did see that. Really blew me away. And I'm sure she'd see nothing wrong with it.

 

[nugov2]

I did see that. Really blew me away. And I'm sure she'd see nothing wrong with it.

I know I shouldn't care what some random says on the internet, but that sentiment really breaks my heart. Honestly it is people who were using their child as a personal FP machine that were the biggest problem and the reason for the change(not that all were doing that).

 

[StirlingSilver83]

I didn't read through the thread, but did anyone see this comment by someone after the article:

1. Laura Spurrell says:
   March 10, 2015 at 3:54 pm
   We just quit going to Disneyland, because our son could not handle waiting in the lines after they changed their policy. He has an intellectual disability and severe ADHD. Under the old policy he loved going to Disneyland and it is one of the few times his sisters thought he had any value in the world.

I cannot imagine saying something so awful or raising other children to think so little of their brother.

That's awful!! My son has asd and adhd and honestly when we went to wdw in 2012 I hadno idea they even had anything for his issues and we seriously only went on like 2 or 3 rides a day, but we still had fun. Our trip last year I realized they had the DAS so we got 1 and it worked fantastically for him. Yes he still had to wait a little bit in the line but at least he didn't have to wait an hour for the rides.

 

[ChloroformSdxn]

I didn't read through the thread, but did anyone see this comment by someone after the article:

1. Laura Spurrell says:
   March 10, 2015 at 3:54 pm
   We just quit going to Disneyland, because our son could not handle waiting in the lines after they changed their policy. He has an intellectual disability and severe ADHD. Under the old policy he loved going to Disneyland and it is one of the few times his sisters thought he had any value in the world.

I cannot imagine saying something so awful or raising other children to think so little of their brother.

This is heartbreaking. These children get that from their parents.

I will say, coming from someone who never experienced the old system, whose son is autistic, and who has never done WDW, that the new system does work well at DLR. I wouldn't have even considered going to Disney were it not for the disability program because it would be a disaster. My son is probably (he's only 4, so it's kind of early to tell), moderately autistic. He had some issues at first with the concept of having to walk back to the kiosks to get the pass when it was a ride he wanted to go on again (such as leaving Thunder Mountain to go to the kiosk near Haunted Mansion), but he got used to it. Part of my job as a parent is to do everything I can to help him function as an adult. We've been fortunate enough to go to Disneyland 3x in the past two years, and hope to go on an annual basis. While there is an element of Disney being the "Land of Yes", I have to also use it as a learning opportunity. We make sure to go during the quietest (and cheapest!) times of year when the crowds are the lowest. We try to go in every regular line we can and use the busiest times of day (11-3) as a chance to maybe head back to the hotel, decompress, then come back later. We talk about turn taking, and waiting, and first-then, as well as making choices. I bring in visuals and use social stories.

Sure, it would be great to just walk on every single ride and go on it as many times in a row as I wanted. Unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way. Disney can't just accommodate disabled guests at the expense of every other guest there. And, unfortunately, there are going to be some people that Disney doesn't work out for at all.

 

[smiths02]

I didn't read through the thread, but did anyone see this comment by someone after the article:

1. Laura Spurrell says:
   March 10, 2015 at 3:54 pm
   We just quit going to Disneyland, because our son could not handle waiting in the lines after they changed their policy. He has an intellectual disability and severe ADHD. Under the old policy he loved going to Disneyland and it is one of the few times his sisters thought he had any value in the world.

I cannot imagine saying something so awful or raising other children to think so little of their brother.

There is so much wrong in this quote! Yikes!
Moral issues aside, someone with an intellectual disability and ADHD isn't necessarily what I was thinking about as the small percentage who would need immediate access. (I was thinking having medical issues like epilepsy or something on top of the cognitive issues so that a melt down was actually dangerous).
I fail to see how it is Disney's responsibility to make sure a child doesn't melt down.

 

[StirlingSilver83]

There is so much wrong in this quote! Yikes!
Moral issues aside, someone with an intellectual disability and ADHD isn't necessarily what I was thinking about as the small percentage who would need immediate access. (I was thinking having medical issues like epilepsy or something on top of the cognitive issues so that a melt down was actually dangerous).
I fail to see how it is Disney's responsibility to make sure a child doesn't melt down.

I 100% agree with you. I have a kid with ASD and ADHD and we used the DAS for the first time last year and yes he still had to wait a bit. His waiting ability before a meltdown is about 10-15...but most of the rides didnt exceed that and I think there was only 2 times we had a meltdown, but they weren't even ride related. The DAS worked fabulous for us and when we go again this year we hopefully are able to get it again. Personally even though my son has issues I wouldn't expect special treatment and immediate access. I just think thats not fair to other people in line.

 

[delmar411]

I didn't read through the thread, but did anyone see this comment by someone after the article:

1. Laura Spurrell says:
   March 10, 2015 at 3:54 pm
   We just quit going to Disneyland, because our son could not handle waiting in the lines after they changed their policy. He has an intellectual disability and severe ADHD. Under the old policy he loved going to Disneyland and it is one of the few times his sisters thought he had any value in the world.

I cannot imagine saying something so awful or raising other children to think so little of their brother.

That is seriously heartbreaking. What kind of parents teaches their children that type of awfulness. I feel so badly for that boy.


And I will chime in that I do agree there are some disabilities that warrant immediate access: a child who is medicated and only safe to ride for very specific times of day, a child who suffers severe medical issues from too long in the heat, etc. Some sort of medical issue that would cause the person (child/adult) to be unable to access even the minimum of attractions because they would need to leave in just 2-3 hrs. Something like that. But still that would need to be strictly controlled.

My daughter has done wonderfully with the DAS. We still run into issues at times with rides that have long, slow FP lanes (Soarin) so we just rarely go on those rides. Seems pretty simple to me. As long as she doesnt have to be stuck in those closed in standby lines surrounded by people, we are good. And FWIW, my daughter was a wicked abuser of the looping ability with the GAC. We now give up our FPs to her in order to accomodate her ourselves. It isnt Disney's problem and it shouldnt be any other guest's problem that my child gets obsessed with a few different rides. It is my problem and we found an easy way to solve it.

 

[OurBigTrip]

And I will chime in that I do agree there are some disabilities that warrant immediate access: a child who is medicated and only safe to ride for very specific times of day, a child who suffers severe medical issues from too long in the heat, etc. Some sort of medical issue that would cause the person (child/adult) to be unable to access even the minimum of attractions because they would need to leave in just 2-3 hrs. Something like that. But still that would need to be strictly controlled.

The problem with this is that once you offer it, you pretty much have to offer it to anyone that says they need it. Some of the people in the lawsuit are claiming the DAS won't work for them because their child can only be in the park for a few hours, so they need to get in as much as they can.

IMO, wish kids are the only ones that should receive immediate access.

 

[delmar411]

The problem with this is that once you offer it, you pretty much have to offer it to anyone that says they need it. Some of the people in the lawsuit are claiming the DAS won't work for them because their child can only be in the park for a few hours, so they need to get in as much as they can.

IMO, wish kids are the only ones that should receive immediate access.

True. It is a little naive to think that there would be some way to control access to such assistance. But it would be nice.

 

[OurBigTrip]

True. It is a little naive to think that there would be some way to control access to such assistance. But it would be nice.

We can agree to disagree on that.

 

[delmar411]

We can agree to disagree on that.

Fair enough

 

[DisneyNutMary]

I didn't read through the thread, but did anyone see this comment by someone after the article:

1. Laura Spurrell says:
   March 10, 2015 at 3:54 pm
   We just quit going to Disneyland, because our son could not handle waiting in the lines after they changed their policy. He has an intellectual disability and severe ADHD. Under the old policy he loved going to Disneyland and it is one of the few times his sisters thought he had any value in the world.

I cannot imagine saying something so awful or raising other children to think so little of their brother.

My heart breaks for this woman's children. With good, loving parenting the girls would be good loving sisters to their brother. Outside of normal sibling rivalry, that is.
As the sister of a brother with multiple severe handicaps, I have never felt anything but love and acceptance for my brother, and at times, protectiveness. Sure, his wheelchair and his needs kept us from doing things other families did- beaches, restaurants, amusement parks ( we grew up in the early to mid 70s, the world had not caught up with the ADA yet)
I credit my parents, my grandparents and my aunts and uncles for teaching us love and acceptance. It's not hard, but it is taught at home.
That poor boy, if this post is to be believed, only had value to his family as a pawn in their vacation enjoyment. How sad.

 

[North of Mouse]

In October of last year, the DAS at WDW did not work well for our child with developmental/cognitive disabilities. It worked rather poorly, actually. But why, is none of your business. Suffice to say, the current system did not accommodate the needs of our child. A limited attempt was made to come up with a limited work around...and yes, folks, they do have lots of powers with MB's, but, sadly, still inadequate accommodation. Disney Hong Kong, earlier in the year in June, seemed to work just fine but not so at Disney Tokyo which seems to be taking the strict application of the DAS rules to an all new level. Yes, consider this a warning. Either way, despite the great enjoyment our child has had at WDW and other parks over the last 6 years from when she was 18 months, sadly, we probably won't be back for some time. It is just becoming too hard with a place that just does not seem to have ways to truly accommodate her specific needs. Perhaps I will investigate Disney Paris for a trip to the EU we are taking this May but I think we will probably take a pass.

I don't plan on reading any of your responses unless you feel like sending me a PM.

Wow!

What an odd response. No details, only "it didn't work," and then a refusal to engage in any meaningful discussion on the thread.

Agree! Why post in the first place??

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

My heart breaks for this woman's children. With good, loving parenting the girls would be good loving sisters to their brother. Outside of normal sibling rivalry, that is.
As the sister of a brother with multiple severe handicaps, I have never felt anything but love and acceptance for my brother, and at times, protectiveness. Sure, his wheelchair and his needs kept us from doing things other families did- beaches, restaurants, amusement parks ( we grew up in the early to mid 70s, the world had not caught up with the ADA yet)
I credit my parents, my grandparents and my aunts and uncles for teaching us love and acceptance. It's not hard, but it is taught at home.
That poor boy, if this post is to be believed, only had value to his family as a pawn in their vacation enjoyment. How sad.

I get what you are saying, but I hope the person just didn't explain themselves well when posting it.

And your post comes across as very judgemental. My parents taught me love and acceptance for my severely handicapped brother. However there were feelings of resentment because of all the things I could not do, times he required all of their attention, and traumatic situations I lived through growing up in that situation. That doesn't make me a bad sibling or my parents bad parents.

 

[Goddesstree]

What if Disney brings back the GAC but reduces the issuance of the arrow stamp to a small percentage of guests? What if guests without the arrow could queue their return times. Like you request Space, then Peter Pan, then Splash, then Pirates. Once you get scanned into Space, if the wait for Peter Pan is 40 minutes, your 30 minute timer starts. If you want to skip one, you remove it from your queue and the next timer starts. People have said that approaching the ride and not riding, only having 1 return time and the inability to change your mind are issues. Would that be acceptable? Of course, before the DAS many people said they just needed a quiet place to wait, and it was only after the unlimited and immediate access to rides was taken away that many even admitted that that's what they were getting.

Having multiple return times is what FP+ is for, so that "accommodation" already exists. Combining that with DAS, and the allowance of more FP+ after the first 3 are used up, and you have the ability to have 5 attractions with limited wait. What you have suggested is unlimited access by way of FP+, which is not equal access.