Disney endorses....

[Eeyore'sthebest]

Rick - I'm so glad you get to have your ceremony! Your post brought tears to my eyes. Have a great time!!

 

[MissyDVC]

I agree, that is over the top and uncalled for. But not everyone that disagrees with Disney's decision has a hateful attitude about it.

I never said everyone did. That post just makes me sad. I actually think you stated your thoughts in a nice, non-judgemental way and I wish everyone could do that, regardless of how they feel on the topic.

 

[write2caro]

And although many are saying to each his own, they don't mean it.

Presumtuous and WRONG.

but my neighbor will be thrilled to know she can marry her new puppy at Disney! Of course, it won't be legal.

I'm sorry... just to clarify... is THIS the type of thing/statement/person we should all be equally accepting of?? Shameful and sad.

 

[MickeyP]

This one went down the wrong road. I meant my neighbor has the $$$ to marry her dog that she wants to be buried with. My mind didn't even go to beastiality. Holy Cow!!!! If I offended you, I apologize. I really wasn't going that route.

 

[kt_mom]

Presumtuous and WRONG.



I'm sorry... just to clarify... is THIS the type of thing/statement/person we should all be equally accepting of?? Shameful.

In a way yes. Hear me out though please. You have to be tolerant of that person even though they disagree with your beliefs. You do not however, have to like, agree or respect some of the actions they take. People that feel that homosexuality is wrong or disapprove of it still have to be tolerant of those that are or those that agree with it, but they still don't have to agree with it or believe its right. Its the whole point of tolerance.

I do not in any way approve of hate whether in word in or in actions against any person or group. But it does not mean that I agree with everything that everyone says or does.

 

[write2caro]

In a way yes. Hear me out though please. You have to be tolerant of that person even though they disagree with your beliefs. You do not however, have to like, agree or respect some of the actions they take. People that feel that homosexuality is wrong or disapprove of it still have to be tolerant of those that are or those that agree with it, but they still don't have to agree with it or believe its right. Its the whole point of tolerance.

I do not in any way approve of hate whether in word in or in actions against any person or group. But it does not mean that I agree with everything that everyone says or does.

I know what you mean. I respect people's rights to their opinions. I don't lump all Southern Baptists or all ANYONE into one group - it's just not possible - makes no sense. I think everyone has been misunderstood at one point or another for being part of a certain "group". I agree that this is unfair. I do believe in equality for all, as corny or simple as that might sound. Even someone who likens a gay couple making a commitment to one another to their neighbor marrying their dog should have equal rights. That doesn't mean I have to tolerate that kind of speech, though. Some things are inflammatory and hateful and are better not said. I'm sure we can all find ways to disagree and express our opinions without being hateful, so I think we agree on that one. I think you did try to express your thoughts respectfully, as I think I and most others have on the flipside.

I am guilty of saying that the thumbs-down position will likely be covered on Right-wing radio, and I don't think I'm wrong about that. That is not the same thing as saying that ALL those who might listen to such reporting are worthy of being hated. Didn't intend for it to come across that way. I don't feel that way... lucky for my husband!!

 

[olbear]

All this talk of tolerance and being open minded is wonderful. Except that you are still only tolerant and keep an open mind to those that fit into what you believe. This does not apply to everyone. I don't want to generalize although that seems to be the flow of things. But yet over and over I have read bashings of people that do not agree with this. And everyone that disagrees is lumped in together, they are gay bashers, they are "right wing rednecks".
They listen to "right wing radio". They are less educated and less traveled and in that post made to sound like they were back woods stupid or something. If that's your idea of tolerance and open mindedness you can count me out.

And lets don't forget the Southern Baptist as a whole. They are all lumped together and insulted quite frequently. As a southern baptist I take offense at that. Just because some people in a group act a certain way does not mean that everyone in that group is the same. Isn't that the whole idea of this tolerence thing, or does that only apply to everyone else? If you take any kind of religous stand then you are exempt from being tolerated or respected.

Not everyone on this thread has gone that direction. Many people have just said they thought it was great and left it at that. I have no opinion. It will not affect Disney in any way except they will make more money and it doesn't affect me. But they are definitly taking a stand on this issue. Will it change me going in June, not a bit.

Flame me, bash me I don't care. But I really hate to hear people preach tolerence and all that while they disrespect the people that they are calling intolerent, close minded and "haters". You can't call yourself tolerant and then chose who you want to be tolerant of.

To the poster who posted about taking advantage of this change at Disney I wish you a wonderful ceremony. Whether or not I agree with someone's lifestyle choices doesn't mean that I wish them ill will. Have a wonderful ceremony and wonderful trip and a happy and prosperous life.

Speaking as another "Southern Baptist", I say thank you. You shared all the same thoughts as I. I am not 100% thrilled with the decision, but somehow at the same time, I am happy for the Gay/Lesbian community on some level. That doesn't even make total sense to myself to say that. But it is how I feel. Right or wrong, it's how I feel.

Blessings,
Winnie

 

[NYBlue1]

Here's the point your all missing, its really not right for anybody to have an "opinion" on another human beings life and talk about them like they are furnature or animals or a political football. Exactly who do you think you are?

There are many Gay and Lesbian families living in "our' country , yes I said "our" country cause believe it or not gay and lesbian people pay the same taxes and are born in the same country you all are.

Stop and think a second how would you feel if you were in the place of the gay and lesbian families and your family was being judged and called names , being told that people "tolerated you" were "happy for you" even if they didnt "aprove of your lifestyle". Gays and Lesbians are the same as everyone else, they love they have families they contribute to society in positve ways , they bleed and have feelings that are CRUSHED by the "tolerant" ameicans , heck even their president on a daily basis.

Wake up people, when is the last time you or your family were damaged in some way by a gay or lesbian person. They are the last bastion of exceptable bigotry and quite frankly I find it discusting

stop and THINK people, you are judging HUMAN BEINGS they live love and bleed the same you do, maybe even attend the same churches you do, they are no more "evil" than any heterosexual you know

Flame on , I enjoy watching judgemental people try to convice themselves how tolerant they are. Watch out for that "gay agenda too" you know that "gay agenda" the one where gay and lesbians want to have the same equal rights as the rest of their fellow americans to live in peace and happiness like the rest of you "non judgemental americans".

This post is quite un disney like and not typical for me but im tired of playing the ***** foot game when it comes to this topic. People need to wake up and see the hurt they are causing their fellow human beings.

 

[olbear]

NYBlue1,

I feel your post is just as judgemental as you claim we who are trying to be as tolerant as our convictions will let us be. You want your emotional cake and to eat it too. Well sometimes you just cannot have both.

I feel that myself and probably many others, such as those who have already posted, have come along way in how we feel about homosexuals over the last several years. In a positive way that is. There was a time when I would have been full in your face about how dead wrong you all are. I have been working on moving to a place where I can and am able to understand more.
And no, not to make me a hero, but I have become friends with a few homosexuals I have met in the last few years. And one I lost to HIV. And we have a friendship and respect for each other, that I would never thought possible say 5 years ago.

But you say you're tired of the name calling. Well, so am I! I do NOT consider myself a "bigot" or hater of homosexuals. No way! I am someone who has a dedicated relationship with Christ. Something I pray we all have, gay or straight. And I just so happen to interpret the Bible differently then homosexuals. And because of that , I am bashed and called a "bigot" and homophobe, and hate monger, the list goes on. So I guess we're equal in that respect. Not something I relish. Do you?

My favorite color is RED. Your's may be green. So what!! Doesn't make one a judge or hateful person. We just happen to have different likes or stands. Like you said, this is America, Land of the free. Free to have different ideas and differing opinions. But free to have them just the same.

Please think on these things before you lash out and hurt people just the same as you claim we do who differ in our opinions or convictions.

Blessings just the same,
Winnie

 

[Davids-Coco]

They are the last bastion of exceptable bigotry and quite frankly I find it discusting

Side note: A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. (from wiki)

I enjoy your comments, but seriously, this is a little out there. There is so much else going on... Christian bashing (heck, look at the gross generalizations of Southern Baptists in this thread), Jew bashing, black, white, muslim, mexicans... there are still areas of new york that are incredibly racially charged. And it is all acceptable and unrelated to sexual preference. It all exists, and will probably always exist... that is because people are just like this.

And I have to add that as a Stay at Home Mom, it is more than "acceptable" for most to spew bigotry in my direction. I only sit around on the couch and eat bon bons while my 7 month old somehow manages to take care of himself.

 

[NYBlue1]

How about you just live and let live? I am certainly not judging you to be anything, Im reacting to peoples pats on the back to how far they have come in adopting human decency to treat there fellow human beings how they wish to be treating and respected themselves. I respect you as a fellow human being, I frown on your intolerance , you cant reverse that on me, its a contribed and muddled argument. Right up there with im rubber your glue what bounces off me sticks to you.

Tsk tsk you didnt THINK before you responded to my post, you just stated how fabulous it was that you could interact with those "Gay" folks.

How you feel about"Homosexuals"? They are people just like you , if your looking for a pat on the back for treating your fellow human beings like human beings your missing the boat.

You posted that you are "trying to be as tolerant as our convictions will let us be" Well guess what, not everybody in the country has the same beliefs as you and its not for any religious group,to make judgements that effect other americans lives and health in the end ,not yours or Mr Fallwells down there in Lynchburg.

Your "religious conviction" are just that, YOURS they should not effect any other human being that does not believe in them. Remember that little thing called seperation of church and state? Who are all these tollerant people that keep voting to deny homosexuals the same benifits as heterosexuals?

Im not judging you or your beliefs, you can belive whatever you choose as long as its not impacting any lives that dont wish to follow along with your thinking.

last time I checked you were not being held back rights as an american for your religious convictions. I hurt you for calling to light how homosexuals are discriminated against and denyed rights like the rest of the americans living in this great country? You have got to be kidding me.

Dry those tears while you go on in your life, married with full federal and state tax and death benifits for your spouse,the ability to hold hands with your husband in public if you chose and nobody gives you a second look or beats the heck out of you or worrying about if you will be allowed to make a health care decision OR even allowd in the hospital room with him after 40 years of partnership as he lays dying.

So sorry if I hurt your feelings, but hey, im sure all homosexuals are thrilled to bits you are so tollerant , I know I am

 

[Schmeck]

NYBlue1,
No way! I am someone who has a dedicated relationship with Christ. Something I pray we all have, gay or straight. Blessings just the same,
Winnie

I'd rather not have people pray for me to have a dedicated relationship with Christ, as I am not a Christian. Not everyone wants to be a Christian. It'd be nice for Christians to have some tolerance for non-Christians. I know some that do. I'm happy that you find comfort and guidance believing in Jesus as the son of God, as long as that belief doesn't blind you to the fact that everyone doesn't have to believe in the same thing, especially here in the USA.

So, I'm happy that homosexuals are given the chance to be spending tons of $$$ at WDW, I wish they could have 100% equal legal rights as everyone else in this country, and I have no tolerence for people who try to force 'Christianity' on others, like Christians haven't done anything bad, ever...

Blessed be

 

[NYBlue1]

Side note: A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. (from wiki)

I enjoy your comments, but seriously, this is a little out there. There is so much else going on... Christian bashing (heck, look at the gross generalizations of Southern Baptists in this thread), Jew bashing, black, white, muslim, mexicans... there are still areas of new york that are incredibly racially charged. And it is all acceptable and unrelated to sexual preference. It all exists, and will probably always exist... that is because people are just like this.

And I have to add that as a Stay at Home Mom, it is more than "acceptable" for most to spew bigotry in my direction. I only sit around on the couch and eat bon bons while my 7 month old somehow manages to take care of himself.

I never said that bigotry only existed toward Gays, just that you seem to be able to call them anything you want with no fallout. I can promise you that any other of the groups you mentioned were batted around the way gays are there would be outrage, prosecution and people losing their jobs left and right. thats what I consider exceptable bigotry. Call a african american a racial slur people draw back in fear, call a gay a "f" and people laugh.


Im not sure if you were joking or serious about the perception some silly people may have of stay at home moms, but you honestly cant be comparing the two? Right?


I really dont want this thread to be closed cause its going off topic, i will be happy to answer any posts positive or negative in PMs.

Just want people to really think before they post on topics like this, imagine if you were in a homosexuals shoes and were being treated like they are everyday. How would you feel? thats all, dont take it any further than that, please just think.

 

[write2caro]

Side note: A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own. (from wiki)

I enjoy your comments, but seriously, this is a little out there. There is so much else going on... Christian bashing (heck, look at the gross generalizations of Southern Baptists in this thread), Jew bashing, black, white, muslim, mexicans... there are still areas of new york that are incredibly racially charged. And it is all acceptable and unrelated to sexual preference. It all exists, and will probably always exist... that is because people are just like this.

And I have to add that as a Stay at Home Mom, it is more than "acceptable" for most to spew bigotry in my direction. I only sit around on the couch and eat bon bons while my 7 month old somehow manages to take care of himself.

I promised myself I was calling it quits on this thread, but I have one final thing to say. I identify completely with NYBlue1's upset and frustration. There is one key and very real distinction between gay people and the groups you mention in your post: I think at the root of this is a fundamental and LEGAL inequality.

It is NOT true that it is acceptable in this country to say that African Americans should not have RIGHTS equal to caucasians. It is not acceptable to say that Jews or Southern Baptists have "unacceptable lifestyles" and thus should not have the same RIGHTS. That is a fallacy. The fact remains that gay people are not afforded the same rights in this country as literally EVERYBODY else. Even if a Southern Baptist or SAHM are "bashed" in some way and share equally in the pain that results from any "bigotry" (all of which is destructive), all those people have EQUAL RIGHTS. Gay people still do not. I think that's an important distinction. What justifies them not having equal rights? How can it be interpreted as anything other than them not deserving it or being seen as less "human" in some important way in the eyes of those who would withhold the right?

This is why I said earlier that to say, in essence, that someone is merely of the OPINION that because they are uncomfortable with gay people having the same RIGHTS others do (whether for religious or other reasons) they shouldn't, is not the same thing as having an OPINION about whether red or blue is a better color - not a reasonable comparison. I interpret this as saying that supporting maintaining inequality in this respect is just as valid as wanting equality for ALL people - they're both merely equivalent OPINIONS - no harm done either way. This I disagree with. I would be surprised if someone could be considered tolerant by anybody if their OPINION was, for instance, that African Americans should not marry or even have a commitment ceremony. I hope that makes sense and adequately expresses what upsets some of us so much about this.

If anyone genuinely wants to understand more of where I'm coming from or share more of where they're coming from with me I will certainly answer, but otherwise, I think I've said everything I can and will spare everyone any more - promise!

 

[DebIreland]

At times it depressed me that it would never be something I could do, let alone dream of.

And now it is and we're going to do it!

.......From being a terrified college kid who was horrified at telling anyone that I was gay, to being a proud 40 year old man with the best partner, home, dog and friends, the world is becoming a better, more inclusive and accepting place... at least through my view off my balcony.

Oh wow! That's just amazing. What an exciting time for you and your partner - all that wonderful planning ahead. Congrats.

I think your post is the most romantic thing I've read in a while - well yours and the post on the theme parks board from a guy planning a surprise Disney trip for his wife right down to ordering a Mickey waffle maker for her breakfast on the morning of the trip.

So much love on the DISboards.

*sigh* I need chocolate.

 

[kt_mom]

I'm going to ignore the Lynchburg Dr. Falwell comment b/c I don't know if that was directed at me or not. And I don't care. I went to both of schools and I'm proud of it, although I do not always agree with the things that he says or does. He does do great things for our community.

My posts were not to pat myself on the back for my tolerance but to point out that you can't claim to be open minded or tolerant if you are being disrespectul of others that don't agree with your openmindedness.

I have no desire to get any further into my beliefs on this matter or what I think as I think its heated enough. I will say this though, there have been numerous times when there were homosexual protests outside of Dr. Falwell's church when families were trying to go inside to worship. I think that is pushing their beliefs in Christians faces.

 

[kt_mom]

I almost forgot. This country was founded on Christian beliefs and the seperation of church and state that is thrown out there all the time was intended to keep the state from governing the church, not the other way around. It was never intended to keep prayer out of schools.

 

[NYBlue1]

No personal beliefs or relationships with God should interfear with peoples basic human rights. A protest outside a church or worship service may disrupt a service but those worshipers are going home with every right aforded to them by the state and the federal government.

Apples and Oranges

You will not see human beings being discriminated against only your religious beliefs. Mr Fallwell is a pilliar of the community to someone that shares his ideals and beliefs...hes the devil incarnate to those that are condemed by him as not exceptable human beings. You need to let this go. I will not see your side and you will not see mine as you feel you are being justified by God himself.

Peace

 

[RickinNYC]

In a way yes. Hear me out though please. You have to be tolerant of that person even though they disagree with your beliefs. You do not however, have to like, agree or respect some of the actions they take. People that feel that homosexuality is wrong or disapprove of it still have to be tolerant of those that are or those that agree with it, but they still don't have to agree with it or believe its right. Its the whole point of tolerance.

I do not in any way approve of hate whether in word in or in actions against any person or group. But it does not mean that I agree with everything that everyone says or does.

Actually kt_mom, I think your stance is very acceptable. I wouldn't dream of asking, let alone, demanding anyone to change their minds or hearts when it came to my own personal and very private life. I would never ask that of you and respect the fact that you do the same for me.

Personally, I don't find your position offensive. Particularly your last paragraph in which you state that you don't approve of hate. I also like your last sentence in that you don't agree with everything that everyone says or does. Lord knows I don't!

This is in no way a means to criticize or demean anything you've posted on this thread. There aren't any hidden meanings, just my own personal opinion.

I dont' by any means expect everyone to have the WTG feeling. I just expect everyone to recognize that my partner and I are tax paying, law abiding, hard working adults and that we are absolutely 100% entitled to every single right that any other tax paying, law abiding, hard working adult has as well.

 

[RickinNYC]

I was thinking the same thing. After 4 pages, who wants to open the can?
I don't agree with the lifestyle. And although many are saying to each his own, they don't mean it. I guess I just don't understand the WTG attitude, but my neighbor will be thrilled to know she can marry her new puppy at Disney! Of course, it won't be legal.

Wow, you may have posted after the above with a retraction but it's clear where you stand. And thank you so much for the lovely bashing and comparing my relationship with my partner of 16+ years to a dog.

And folks, THIS is the exact attitude that made me so anxious and downright depressed in the mid-80's and THIS is the attitude that causes a lot of our younger generation to live in fear of hatred. And THIS is the very same attitude forced other Americans to sit in the back of the bus or denied women the right to vote.

AND THIS is the very same attitude that likely caused Disney to take so long to recognize the absolute fact that they were indeed treating certain guests as second class citizens. Thankfully, they grew up and realized it was the 21st century. Hopefully the above poster can as well. I pray he/she does.