Disney Dining Plan Going Downhill? Your Thoughts???

[Cheshire Figment]

If I'm not mistaken, restaurants make their profit from the sale of alcoholic beverages. For those of us using the free DDP...

When we dine out at Yachtsman and use 4 TS credits, they make their money on the $200 bottle of wine we order.

When we dine at O'hana and use 2 TS credits, they make their money on the $20 in frou-frou drinks we order.

And, so when we eat at Captain Cook's and use 2 QS credits, they make their money on the $15 in beer we order.

Oh, oh, and let's not forget the snacks! Many conveniently located in souvenir shops...

When there is FREE DDP, that leaves funds to buy those alcoholic items, and the "extras" (we tend to always order apps). In addition, I really don't get concerned about leaving food on my plate, or just nibbling on the dessert.

In summation, I feel DDP has not brought dining at DW down, and in my particular case, FREE DDP has enhanced my dining experience.

You are mistaken!

Based on this comment, where do Tony's, Crystal Palace, Plaza, Liberty Tree Tavern, Cinderella's Royal Table, Pecos Bill's, Tomorrowland Terrace, etc., make their money. Last time I looked you cannot buy alcoholic beverages anywhere in Magic Kingdom!

 

[Kurby]

we got the ddp a couple of times before the changed it. and while i hated that the servers got their tip automatically even if they were the worst we did like it for what we got but now they increased the price, removed the appy and you have to bring extra cash for tipping it's not convienent anymore. if i have to pay for it before we arrive then have to still pay for the extras then i might as well pay oop for everything. then we can order 1 appy and share it and 1 dessert and share it without wasting

plus dd now 4 doesn't really eat much and most meals out she shares off of us but we'd still have to pay for her and that's a huge wast of money and food.

as for the food quality - we haven't been going as long as some of you guys so we don't reamember "what it used to be". we've had good food and not so good food but not often have we had GREAT food.

mostly good service and maybe only once or twice out right "did you quit and not tell us???"

 

[connorlevismom]

Where do you think that $47.99 per night is coming from? OOP! It's OOP either way. You are CHOOSING to pay more and want to penalize those that CHOOSE to pay less. Question. Should those with AP's or those who get corporate discounts or free tickets from timeshare presentations experience less attractions because their per day cost of a ticket is less than yours?

So if I am reading certain posts right (and I'm not saying that I am 100% correct) people who purchase the dining plan should be punished. You want us to have to order from "special" menus and have less options.. And you want us to pay more? Okay, first off I am PAYING for this, it isn't free. We like the dining plan because we want to be virtually stressfree during vacation. I am paying $41.99-47.99 per night for the standard dining plan and you think I should be limited in what I order and that I should have to pay an extra fee? I'm sorry, but that's just ridiculous.

Has the quality of food gone down in the recent years, yes. But it is like that at MOST restaurants these days. Businesses are looking for ways to cut back on the costs and unfortunately quality is usually the first to go. I think it's silly to put the blame on the dining plan especially since most of the people who take advantage of the dining plan are PAYING for it. Remember FREE dining isn't all year round! You want to put the blame on someone - take it up with the people in charge ordering the food and deciding on the menus.

The post below yours is where I get the $47.99.

I am in the camp where I think that if you do DDP, there should be a menu for it. The poster below yours clearly does not agree, and thinks that because they paid $47.99 per night for a whole days worth of meals, they should be able to order whatever they want. I disagreed.

What is wrong with being presented a menu that is comparable to the price that you paid for the DDP? If this truly is about having your meals paid for ahead of time, and not about being able to order the most expensive meal, then what is the problem? Your getting a meal that has been prepaid for and those of us who would like more expensive options on the menu and pay OOP, would be able to get that as well.

As it is right now, the more expensive menu items have been removed because people on the DDP are ordering them and the cost of the DDP is not enough to cover them. So they are removed and those of us who pay OOP are punished because we don't get the option to order them anymore.

Kristine

 

[bluejasmine]

Oh boy.. Im probably gonna get fried now. BUT..I have gone almost every year since 2005 for free dining, I started booking it once or twice and then after that I kept getting offered bounce backs which I always book, since it gives me a yr or more to pay it off.
I can tell you honestly, if it wasnt for the dining plan I would eat almost all CS meals with an 1 or 2 TS meals thrown in so for our family it has enhanced our dining experiences greatly! It allows me to book a nicer hotel and gives my family more spending money in the parks and shops. I have never had a problem with service, sometimes it can be a bit slow but you find that anywhere. Now I am NOT saying the DDP hasnt changed dining for everyone maybe, Im sure they have had to make cuts just like ever company has but I am VERY grateful for the oppurtunities the free DDP has given us for the last 5 yrs..

I know that there has been alot of talk of getting the most out of your dining plan but to us its not the steak or the smoothies you can get as your drink getting the most out of the DDP to us is just eatting what we enjoy. That can be chicken or salad or whatever, I also find it HIGHLY offensive that we get stereotyped b/c we got DDP for free. My family works just as hard as anyone elses and we also book yearly trips just like millions of others and I dont even want to think of exactly how much we have spent at WDW in our lifetime..LOL between drinks, souveniers, packages, gas, boat rentals, and etc.

In summary I wouldnt say dining has gone downhilll just had many cuts like everything else in todays economy, the DDP isnt the only reason for the cuts..WDW is still a business..

 

[Kurby]

i don't have a problem with one menu for ddp and one for oop - it's now different then any "Prix Fixe" menu at up scale restaurants.

case in point - we are having my fathers 80th birthday dinner this weekend at the CN Tower in Toronto. we have chosen the Prix Fixe menu and while some of the items on the oop menu are also on our menu some are not but it was a choice we made that everyone at the table gets the prix fixe menu not the regular menu.

same at Chef de France. you have a choice of certian items only - if you don't want the Demi poulet fermier roti, pommes rissolees et tomate grillee, Plat de Cote de Boeuf au Cabarnet avec pates, Filet de Saumon, ratatouille sauce Choron or Gratin de macaroni but rather have the Snapper, beurre au citron or Filet de boeuf grille, sauce au poivre noir Gratin Dauphinois et haricots verts then don't order the Prix Fixe and order of the regular menu instead.

its not a punishment it's a choice. choose this or that but not both.

if you prepay this is your menu if you don't or want something more expensive choose this.

maybe meeting half way by saying if you want to upgrade this meal then pay this much extra. so if you want do $50 steak and lobster pay the difference or a $15 exchange fee

give the option of appy OR dessert - if you choose dessert don't complain that you're not getting value because the $10 appy is "worth more" then your $5 dessert

i don't think it would be that difficult for disney to work out an "upgrade fee" and since you'd have to pay oop for appy's, drinks and tips just add the fee to your bill and all that is oop

 

[DVC California]

Wow, this discussion is a lot like the "Spirit Airlines" thread on the Transportation board:

Spirit Airlines Says: "Don't Fly With Us"


It seems that we like to put the blame on our fellow customers when it is really the parent corporation "at fault" (for lack of a better term) for cutting back or providing less for more.

Think of DDP as a buffet line. Should we blame people who favor roast beef and shrimp because they are cutting into the restaurant's profits? Of course not! Everyone has paid their bill and are entitled to eat whatever they want, as much or as little.

By the same token, if the restaurant sees its cost for shrimp going up, they can choose to remove that item or raise prices if the market allows.

DDP may cost some restaurants more than others, but I think we have to take in account how DDP affects WDW's bottom line in general.

Both DDP AND Magical Express are there to keep visitors solely on WDW property. Without rental cars, people tend to spend more money on property. With prepaid dining, WDW restaurants are guaranteed more bookings.

I obviously cannot back my statements up with facts or numbers. But I do have some firsthand experience to relate. Several years ago, it was possible to do walk-ins at Chef Mickeys for dinner. Yes, there would be a long wait, maybe 60+ minutes, but it was possible. Today, they will turn away almost all walk-ins and tell them they are booked for the entire week.

So if WDW Dining's profit margin is thinner than past years, I believe they are more than making up for it in volume of sales.

Should that excuse them from providng the customer excellent services? Again, of course not! But we need to let corporate know about our displeasure, both with our wallets, and more importantly, with our words.

If Ohanas sucked the night you dined there, call for the manager and let him/her know about what was wrong. Follow up with WDW Guest Relations by email or in person if necessary. Disney's mission statement is still "To make people happy." They can't do that if you don't let them know what's wrong and give them the chance to correct.

My two cents, Steve

 

[lmmantini]

We've only been to DW once where we had the free dining plan for the last part of our trip. We paid for it for the first part of our trip (we arrived before the promo started). Since we've only been once I cannot comment on whether or not the food quality or service has gone down. I can only say that we enjoyed all of the restaurants we tried and I don't recall anyone getting a 'bad' meal nor do I recall any particularly poor service. Having the dining plan did mean that we tried restaurants we would not have otherwise tried. We probably would have done all counter service meals except for maybe one or two ts meals during our stay. The dining plan allowed us to try more restaurants and because part of the time it was "free" we were able to spend money on souveniers and doing other things that we otherwise wouldn't have done. That being said, there really is no such thing as a "free lunch", everyone pays for "free" in some way. Disney just doesn't give stuff away. They're in business to make money.

I like the dining plan for the convenience of having it all paid for up front. Now that appetizers and tips aren't included some of that convenience is gone. I don't like that ADRs have to be made so far in advance. We really wanted to do lunch or dinner at Cindarella's castle because DD was at the perfect age to enjoy it, but it was totally booked for the 9 nights/10 days we were there. I said I would take any time, but nothing was available. It also would have been nice to have been able to do more spur of the moment dining instead of having our entire 9 night dining planned out. However, I understand the popularity of the program and there were plenty of other places we did enjoy and DD has no idea what she missed.

Apparently we're in the minority because we did NOT order the most expensive items just to "get our monies worth." In fact, many of the items were the least expensive. We simply ordered food we knew we liked or ordered based on wanting to try something new and interesting. We went when appetizers were still included and most of the time did not order the appetizers. We did not want to order food and then waste it whether it was during the time that it was "free" or during the time we had paid for the dining plan. We ordered dessert most of the time because we are dessert people, but there were times we didn't get dessert because we were just too full.

To say that EVERYONE who is on the dining plan orders the most expensive items just to get their monies worth is too much of a generalization. We left having not used all of our snack credits or quick service credits, most of the time we did not order appetizers, nor did we order the most expensive items so Disney MUST have made some extra profit on us. I wonder how many other families are like ours?

I agree with the PPs that it would be nice if the dining plan included an appetizer OR dessert. I don't think the dining plan is going away any time soon. It's doing what Disney intended which is keeping more people on property and guaranteeing that the restaurants are always full.

 

[Lewisc]

Airlines are currently either unprofitable or are generating profits fare below what's reasonable considering the capital investment. Airline customers have shown resistance to paying profitable fares but are more willing to pay fees. You can "blame" the customers who're willing to pay fees but not willing to pay equivalent fares.

Disney's theme parks are profitable. I agree with your buffet line comparison. BUT prior to the DDP restaurants didn't function as a buffet. Different menu items had different prices. Customers who were willing to pay more were able to order more expensive menu items. Now restaurans have menus that are standardized. Very few items are specific to a restaurant. More efficient ordering but fewer choices.

The old system had empty restaurants. The new system has full restaurants. AFAIK the only Disney run restaurant not on the plan is V&A. Disney could remove other restaurants from the plan. The haven't. The system works for Disney.

Those (few) customers who want to pay more for better food have some alternatives. V&A. Bistro in EPCOT. The restaurants in the Swan and Dolphin.

I guess you can "blame" the customers. Had enough customers liked the old system Disney wouldn't have changed.

Wow, this discussion is a lot like the "Spirit Airlines" thread on the Transportation board:

Spirit Airlines Says: "Don't Fly With Us"


It seems that we like to put the blame on our fellow customers when it is really the parent corporation "at fault" (for lack of a better term) for cutting back or providing less for more.

Think of DDP as a buffet line. Should we blame people who favor roast beef and shrimp because they are cutting into the restaurant's profits? Of course not! Everyone has paid their bill and are entitled to eat whatever they want, as much or as little.

By the same token, if the restaurant sees its cost for shrimp going up, they can choose to remove that item or raise prices if the market allows.

DDP may cost some restaurants more than others, but I think we have to take in account how DDP affects WDW's bottom line in general.

Both DDP AND Magical Express are there to keep visitors solely on WDW property. Without rental cars, people tend to spend more money on property. With prepaid dining, WDW restaurants are guaranteed more bookings.

I obviously cannot back my statements up with facts or numbers. But I do have some firsthand experience to relate. Several years ago, it was possible to do walk-ins at Chef Mickeys for dinner. Yes, there would be a long wait, maybe 60+ minutes, but it was possible. Today, they will turn away almost all walk-ins and tell them they are booked for the entire week.

So if WDW Dining's profit margin is thinner than past years, I believe they are more than making up for it in volume of sales.

Should that excuse them from providng the customer excellent services? Again, of course not! But we need to let corporate know about our displeasure, both with our wallets, and more importantly, with our words.

If Ohanas sucked the night you dined there, call for the manager and let him/her know about what was wrong. Follow up with WDW Guest Relations by email or in person if necessary. Disney's mission statement is still "To make people happy." They can't do that if you don't let them know what's wrong and give them the chance to correct.

My two cents, Steve

 

[budbeerlady]

We don't blame the downhill on the Dining Plan. We blame it on the the acceptable trends in society right now. People want a "cheap" meal and don't care if the server is useless if they get their meal for $10! Look at TGI Fridays or Logan's. People want it cheap and fast. You have a hard time getting decent service now days in many facets of life, not just eating out. People want the $5 hot and ready pizza, not a real make your toes curl food experience. Disney caters to the masses.

We do the dining plan because honestly I am lazy, then my food is paid for when I vacation. We treat it like an all inclusive.

I think the separate menu idea is silly, I think once you figure in $7 for a kids meal they are still making $. Dd eats noodles and butter, no appetizer, water to drink and ice cream for dessert. So Disney makes $5.50 off her $7 meal. I am a vegetarian, my meals are not the highest on the menu by any means. My Dh likes a good heavy meaty meal, his bill is on the higher end. That doesn't make us evil dining plan people, just lazy. LOL!

 

[Kurby]

oh i don't think it's lazy - i liked not having to worry about paying for anything once we were there (well except all the money on souvenirs) we too thought of it like all inclusive

 

[tony67]

IMO it has been going downhill since it started, but not everyone has the same tastes as me.

Some people enjoy Golden Corral. I do not, but that does not make their enjoyment of it any less, or make them wrong.

Thanks to the DDP, I do I feel the quality had gone way down, but the majority do not care.
I've been to places where Pizza Hut is listed as fine dining, so Disney’s food would seem amazing and luxurious.
Many people are only lucky enough to go to Disney once in a life time. Due to the excitement of being there everything is going to taste better.
Many people do not have access to good food or fancy restaurants in their area.
I think we have all seen the “studies” where microwave food was served in a nice atmosphere and was rated very highly and served on paper plates in another room and given very low rating.
Same town, same day, same food, very different results.

In the end they are happy and keep the restaurants full, so why would Disney care about the 10% of us that are complaining. They do not have room for us anyway and we are always complaining.
And trust me I have spoken to enough people in Disney management over the years about this. They just do not care.

In addition I do think prices OOP have gone up because of the DDP. This has been one of my biggest complaints. This increases the tips to employees and also makes the DDP look like a better value. It also gets more money out of those paying OOP. If I was paying out of pocket I can so no reason to pick Le Cellier or Yatchman's over Shula’s. They are not even in the same ballpark as Shula's IMO.

Anyway I stopped bothering to post about these types of things when someone said they did not care if Coral Reef started serving burgers and chips. That was fine with them they did not care about the quality of fish the place used to serve before the DDP. They were just glad to be there.

Now when I go to Disney I just get the QSDP and pay for a few select meals out of pocket. Before the DDP, I ate at at least 1 if not 2 sit down meals a day at Disney.
Are they missing my money? Not at all.

 

[DisGirl23]

Simple solution - raise the price of the DDP by $10/pp while only offering the QSDP for free (as free dining promos) and charging $20/pp to upgrade.

I like this idea!

Should that excuse them from providng the customer excellent services? Again, of course not! But we need to let corporate know about our displeasure, both with our wallets, and more importantly, with our words.

If Ohanas sucked the night you dined there, call for the manager and let him/her know about what was wrong. Follow up with WDW Guest Relations by email or in person if necessary. Disney's mission statement is still "To make people happy." They can't do that if you don't let them know what's wrong and give them the chance to correct.

Absolutely! Bad experiences can happen anywhere. I read reviews on restaurants until I see that someone didn't do anything to resolve a bad experience at the time. Then I usually move on. If you had bad service or a bad meal, ask to speak to a manager. They can't fix something if they don't know it is broken. They're Disney but, they're not mind readers.

As for this discussion... we enjoy the dining plan. I've been dining in Disney for years and have never had a problem finding something to order and most of the time I enjoy it. I haven't noticed much of a decline. Sure there's restaurants that I think are just basic fare but, I didn't realize there was something wrong with that...
We don't order something just to get it either. I've been know to order a chicken caesar salad on more than one occasion because it's what I wanted. And I'm sure it cost them pennies to make that. There are also occasions when I did order a more expensive item as well, IF that's what I wanted.
I love not having to worry about the bill when it comes.
I also love Magical Express. Once I step foot on Disney property, they have to drag me off at the end of my vacation. But everyone's different. And as long as Disney opens their doors everyday and operates their business, there will be a list of people complaining about something. Goes for every business out there...

 

[tony67]

I like this idea!
Absolutely! Bad experiences can happen anywhere. I read reviews on restaurants until I see that someone didn't do anything to resolve a bad experience at the time. Then I usually move on. If you had bad service or a bad meal, ask to speak to a manager. They can't fix something if they don't know it is broken. They're Disney but, they're not mind readers.

Yes they will fix it. But what can they really do? Give you a free drink or bottle of wine in some cases, but rare. If the food is just bad quality they really can't make a fresh one. They quality is still crap. I have had long discussions about things being bad and they agree in some cases. I feel bad for them as in many cases their hands are tied. They have to operate within the boundaries of the DDP and in a large percentage of the cases the customers just want a large quantity of food and perceived value. IMO the fish at Red Lobster is better than Coral Reef. Le Cellier is not as good as Outback. At least at Outback you are not packed in like Sardines. Don’t even get me started on Mexico and the supposed authentic Mexican food I “just don’t understand”. I have eaten there many times over the years and it was very good until the DDP became so popular. Then they had to operate within the profit margin of the DDP and that was the biggest issue. This was explained to me over a drink with one of the employees there, they were Mexican from Mexico and disappointed with the quality as well.

Typically I have gone back and complained at the hotel and they just give back your credits. This has been done for me a few times when I have had issues. Does not cost them a thing in the end, and how many credits go unused anyway? Does not really do much for me either to be honest. I do not need yet another mediocre meal, if I can even get an ADR.

As for bigger problems, like at the hotels, they do NOTHING. Like the time they checked me out of my room a day early and were packing all my stuff up when I entered my room. The manager would not even speak to me and the response from my letter was a joke even though it was completely their mistake. This was at the GF by the way. This is way I prefer to stay at a real hotel like the Dolphin where issues have always been addressed immediately and too my satisfaction. They also recognize that you have stayed with them in the past and take care of you. It is not just a depository for bodies to fill the parks.

If I am going to stay at a Disney property I just cheap out and go to a moderate like the Coronado. The rooms are resonable and it is actually very nice. I will never every stay at a Disney Deluxe again after the issues I have had. It is not worth the money for a glorified Holiday Inn.

In the end they know we will continue to come back, and if not others will. Until there is a dramatic drop in attendance things will not change, and I just do not see that happening.

 

[DVC California]

Yes they will fix it. But what can they really do? Give you a free drink or bottle of wine in some cases, but rare. If the food is just bad quality they really can't make a fresh one. They quality is still crap.

Comping drinks or apps are standard. If the quality of an entree is off, they should offer to substitute something else (i.e. a steak for the chicken), and comp that.

Typically I have gone back and complained at the hotel and they just give back your credits. This has been done for me a few times when I have had issues. Does not cost them a thing in the end, and how many credits go unused anyway? Does not really do much for me either to be honest. I do not need yet another mediocre meal, if I can even get an ADR.

I understand that refunding the credits may be of no value to you. I personally would appreciate the refund and further ask if the concierge could get me into my restaurant of choice.

And although it may seem like it doesn't cost WDW anything to give the credits back, there's gonna be some bean counter keeping track of all the comps and some mid-manager who has to explain the numbers to upper management.

If the restaurant is concerned about their profit margin, they're gonna be concerned about the comps because those are hard numbers that can be tracked. Unlike all the wasted product they have to throw out because of screw ups and bad estimating (I bet all the burnt hot dogs, burnt burgers and cold fries thrown out in one day at WDW would pay a week's salary for most of us).

 

[utopia74]

Interesting looking at those old menus on the Web Archive. There definitely seemed to be more options on the menu pre-DDP (eg: more entrees to choose from, more desserts).

Apparently 'Ohana had a proper dessert menu back in the day? Weird!
http://web.archive.org/web/20040605193221/allearsnet.com/menu/menu_oh.htm

 

[tony67]

Interesting looking at those old menus on the Web Archive. There definitely seemed to be more options on the menu pre-DDP (eg: more entrees to choose from, more desserts).

Apparently 'Ohana had a proper dessert menu back in the day? Weird!
http://web.archive.org/web/20040605193221/allearsnet.com/menu/menu_oh.htm

The chefs even had daily specials back then as I recall.

Start looking across menus then and now and you will see an even bigger issue IMO.

The last time I did this about a year ago I noticed they all had the same filet.
They all had the same salmon as the fish option. What if you are somewhat of a vegetarian and hate farm raised low quality salmon. Too bad, thats all they had almost everywhere. Even the desserts seemed to be the same with slight variations.
It seems like everyone has lamb shanks on the menu these days.
Very little variety and a lot of standardization so they can buy in bulk and pass the saving onto themselves.

As you can tell I am very annoyed. Disney used to be a dining destination and now it is just average at best.

 

[d-r]

I absolutely believe that the overall quality has went downhill over the last few years. Absolutely. I really don't think it could be argued.

 

[emmabemmainc]

I absolutely believe that the overall quality has went downhill over the last few years. Absolutely. I really don't think it could be argued.

Well, let's just close the thread now then.

BTW--I must have horrible taste then, b/c the last few times we've gone I've loved me some downhill in quality food!

 

[MelissathePooh]

The quality and selections have really deteriorated since free dining in particular. It can really be complicated to try and figure out if its worth the cost. How many meals are you going to eat, buffet vs table, dinner vs breakfast, seasonal pricing. Its ridiculous. Its like you're penalized with seasonal pricing if you don't get the plan so Disney won't lose too much money on free dining people. I HATE seasonal pricing - I think its ridiculous.

At least they took out the included tip - there was a stretch of really poor service at several restaurants. There was no incentive for servers - they got their tip either way. I still have bad feelings about that one.

 

[catne]

Well, let's just close the thread now then.

BTW--I must have horrible taste then, b/c the last few times we've gone I've loved me some downhill in quality food!

Us too...have been to almost all of the Disney restaurants and by & large have had great food, great desserts & great service. Only a very few meals were not good...and usually even that was just part of the meal not good. Bad service only one place.

Funny, this talk of "down hill"...when we first went to Disney more than 20 years ago we thought the food was gross...and over-priced. We used to joke that it was just like the decor at Disney: looked perfect and tasted fake. We went several times 20 years ago and then didn't go back until 1998. Thought the food had improved some between '92 & '98, but still thought a lot of it was fakey tasting. Didn't go again until 2007...and in 07 through this year we've gone many times. And eaten in most of the Disney restaurants in the last 3 years...and guess what: we think the food is better than ever. There are multiple choices on every menu. Yes, it may be salmon at 6 out of 10 restaurants but can guarantee you that it is prepared differently (I know, I've gone with people who order the salmon every time. And another time it was with a girl who ordered the lamb every time. It looked different and tasted different every time.)