Disney Debt!

[_19disnA]

After not being at Disney for over 10 yrs, some relatives with small children invited up to go with them back in 2019. We are amazed at how expensive and crowded everything was compared to prior visits. It probably takes at least twice as long to do the same number of rides/shows due to the larger crowds. Disney seems to spend mostly on big-ticket new rides and doesn't do anything to update the older ones. They also seem to do a poor job of ride capacity planning. New rides need to be designed for the current crowd size. No one wants to wait in a 2 hr line for any ride. I shouldn't be expected to pay an extra charge of certain popular rides just because Disney has done a poor job of capacity planning. Things like 'vitual queues' create the illusion that you aren't waiting in a long line, but really aren't solving the problem.

That 3D Muppet movie hasn't changed since it was first opened over 20 yrs ago. Think they could have at least produced an updated movie. "It's a Small World" also has never been updated and those plywood & glitter covered figures seems amateurish and outdated by today's standards. Even simple things Disney could do like widen narrow walkways to better handle the crowds doesn't seem a priority. We were at AK on a weekday and some places were wall-to-wall people so you couldn't even move until the people in front of you did. We left to go to a different park.

Raising the price to reduce attendance hasn't really worked and doesn't solve the problem. We used to only go to Disney every 5 yrs or so since the rides/shows never changed that much. Disney was just one of the places in our vacation rotation. Prices of everything have gone up over the years. but paying $600+/night for any Disney hotel is excessive for what they offer and way more expensive than other vacation destinations. To us, the VALUE for Disney is no longer there and we have ZERO plans to return.

 

[bakerworld]

WDW vacations have gone up and down on the expense issue for us. Pre-kids = no, kids = yes, post-kids = no, DVC = yes and no. DVC saves us on the room cost but we tend to go longer and more often so not much of a savings. Currently, we're not renewing our AP because we've two DCLs booked. We're going in December, so I am hoping for a Black Friday 3D ticket discount at one of the alternate ticket vendors.

Yes, Disney has become very expensive, but I just paid $16 locally for a glass of wine so really, what hasn't become more expensive.

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Yes, Disney has become very expensive, but I just paid $16 locally for a glass of wine so really, what hasn't become more expensive.

We are not into visiting Las Vegas but we did go last week for 3 nights to see a Garth Brooks concert. (Fabulous, by the way!)
I wanted a full day to just relax by the pool and adjust to being 3 hours back in time. We are not big drinkers, but on vacation I like an occasional frozen drink such as pina colada or strawberry daiquiri. The pool side bar at Caesars Palace wanted $38 for a frozen drink. That was not including tax or gratuity.
Needless to say, we didn’t drink at all.

I was glad that I packed my own little travel coffeemaker, complete with coffee, a scooper, stirrers, cups, lids, etc. They did provide a Keurig in the room but if you actually wanted coffee the pods were $23 from the mini bar.

Now THAT is highway robbery. Luckily the hotel room itself, only a 10-second walk to the concert venue from our elevator lobby, was only $600 roughly for the 3 nights.

 

[Jsharp13]

I just watched that CNBC video this afternoon, I do believe they are on to something when they say Disney is targeting the upper middle class, instead of maintaining a viable option for all income levels. The problem is they aren't offering enough to make it worthy of upper middle-class vacation time.

That is a great summary and statement, at least in my opinion. I guess I am upper middle class because while Disney is crazy expensive for me, it is pretty much in line with some other trips that we've taken in recent years. But, the offering is what is different. I spend that huge dollar amount for a double queen outside entry hotel room, versus a 2bed/1bath condo in Key West. So, it's that "value for price paid" that I struggle with a bit.

 

[Jsharp13]

Yes, it’s too expensive.
The people that hang out on this forum are the fortunate ones that can afford it. Most people can not and many people that could can’t anymore.

I'm sorry that I cannot agree with that. My Disney trip, that I can afford, or other items that I can afford, have nothing to do with fortune. I did not win the lottery, get an inheritance, find a bag of money that flew out of an armored truck. I made my fortune with hard work and the right life choices. In this country, everyone is free to chose how to get where they are.
I'm not saying that I am not grateful to be where I am, and perhaps blessed that my family and I have been able to overcome the few adversities that have come by way. But it was not luck. It was work.

 

[Jsharp13]

I apologize to the readers for this long post about myself but I think anyone that wants to start a business need to see it through.

Not everyone is made to do their own business and kudos to people who wants to work for a paycheck. I grew up knowing that I don't want to work for an employer for the rest of my life. But I believe there are enough money around in the world that anyone can get out of the gutter.

Find something you are good at and ENJOY at it. Don't do something just because the money is good. It won't last.

I think your long post was helpful! This is what I read in it:
I started off with very little. In order to get more, I didn't just sit on my rear and be sad. I worked. And worked hard. Waking up at 4 am in hard. Doing research to see how to better yourself on your own is hard. Pushing through challenges is hard. That is how you get ahead. That's the tip. Good for you!

IMO, of course.

 

[DCLMP]

I'm sorry that I cannot agree with that. My Disney trip, that I can afford, or other items that I can afford, have nothing to do with fortune. I did not win the lottery, get an inheritance, find a bag of money that flew out of an armored truck. I made my fortune with hard work and the right life choices. In this country, everyone is free to chose how to get where they are.
I'm not saying that I am not grateful to be where I am, and perhaps blessed that my family and I have been able to overcome the few adversities that have come by way. But it was not luck. It was work.

I'm sorry, but what exactly are you disagreeing with. Where in that post did I say that wealthy people didn't work?

 

[Jsharp13]

I'm sorry, but what exactly are you disagreeing with. Where in that post did I say that wealthy people didn't work?

Sorry didn't mean to start anything. Just was disagreeing with the portion where you said "the fortunate ones can afford it." So I just took that to mean that being well off enough for a pricey vacation is "fortunate", whereas I consider it "deserved".
But perhaps you just mean that this board is not really a representative section of folks. Maybe us DISers are "fortunate" that we have some spare time to check boards and do this sort of extra outside research and maybe others cannot do that?

 

[OlliePop27]

We just went to the State Fair of Texas, which we do every year. We absolutely love it. It is, however, very expensive. It's around $20 per person for admittance (give or take with discounts) and $30 for parking. You have to use ticket coupons to do most activities in the fair - rides and food. Rides range from $4-$8 per person for kids rides to some approaching $20 per person for the main ferris wheel. $8 for corn dogs. $10 for many games.

The cost quickly adds up to over $200 for one day, and that's with limiting how much we did!

There's certainly lots of shopping to peruse without buying anything, shows and attractions included at no extra cost (the amazing dino experience).

As others have noted, some other experiences are expensive on a per day basis too!

 

[goofytinkerbell]

1

 

[bakerworld]

IMO this thread shows that life is expensive - not just Disney.

It is a downer when families are there with their children and grandchildren who don't understand the entire situation. When we decided to bring our young children to WDW, we sat them down to explain this vacation was a huge, out-of-the-ordinary, experience we might only do once. So, every time they asked for something I would tell them to remember it and on our last day they'd each get a souvenir. Because we had the pre-vacation meeting this was not an issue. DH was raised in a group foster home and they always had a pre-trip meeting, so he was totally onboard.

True communication with 4-, 8-, and 10-year-old kids worked. Even though we went back about every 3 years we'd have a 20-minute pre-meeting to discuss what they missed, and each picked an experience that was a 'must do'. Of course, the 4-year-old, who was almost 7 by the next trip, 'must do' was spend more time in the apartment (we stayed in the FW Trailers). LOL. I never let her forget that. To this day when she goes to WDW she buys a 1DPH and spends the rest of the time at the resort. She is 37 now.

 

[Dakota731]

My husband is in management for a huge company, and they just can’t get people who are willing to work. They don’t realize that you don’t start at the top and must put in some nights and weekends until you get seniority. Not to mention you may not be working your dream job right out of school. And these are great paying jobs that twenty years ago, there was a waiting list to get an interview. They want the huge houses, new cars and premium vacations but aren’t willing to work and save for them. When we were first married we had a starter home and only took beach vacations. It takes years to move up in your professional to where you are making better money to take Disney trips and buy a new SUV.

 

[2010dvcfan]

Sorry didn't mean to start anything. Just was disagreeing with the portion where you said "the fortunate ones can afford it." So I just took that to mean that being well off enough for a pricey vacation is "fortunate", whereas I consider it "deserved".
But perhaps you just mean that this board is not really a representative section of folks. Maybe us DISers are "fortunate" that we have some spare time to check boards and do this sort of extra outside research and maybe others cannot do that?

I share your same view, although I admit I live a very blessed life, it is a result of all my double shifts and investing in my early years not fortunate or luck. Hard work and sacrifice are the foundation for most all "fortunate" life styles.

 

[stitchfan75]

I am beyond lucky to be able to take any vacation. I know many people atht are either unemployed or haven't had a decent raise in years. That's why I will probably stay at my current employer until I retire. We get yearly increases and recently went to a "europe model" for PTO, which is basically unlimited.
When I was a bedside nurse and we took our first trip, it was a lot of saving and I hate to say it...debt. I will never go into debt for a vacation like that again. Every vacation since has been saved for. I work 3 jobs. My regular full time, an online AI training gig, and a weekend job at our nearby Six Flags as a wardrobe person for shows. The Six Flags job is what funds my vacation account, this year I went on hiatus in the off season and wasn't able to put anything away. It was rough with rising prices and I'm glad I'm able to jump back in.
I don't know if the rising cost of Disney is Disney itself or just the state of the economy right now. It seems like everything is just so expensive. Our big Christmas trip next year may be our last because all my kids will be full blown adults, one will be graduated from college and the youngest will be doing her senior year of college.

 

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

My husband is in management for a huge company, and they just can’t get people who are willing to work. They don’t realize that you don’t start at the top and must put in some nights and weekends until you get seniority. Not to mention you may not be working your dream job right out of school. And these are great paying jobs that twenty years ago, there was a waiting list to get an interview. They want the huge houses, new cars and premium vacations but aren’t willing to work and save for them. When we were first married we had a starter home and only took beach vacations. It takes years to move up in your professional to where you are making better money to take Disney trips and buy a new SUV.

I am in management myself and trying to find a new company for the future. I completely agree with this. Nobody wants to work. I always say I have no problem hiring someone who has no experience, if they want to work hard and learn. Show drive and just come on time. Don't make excuses. You would think that is easy to find but nope. Covid changed a lot of people's mindsets. A lot of these companies go through recruiters who make their own judgements without being able to actually speak to someone who works for the company.

Find me those companies looking! lol

But yes, I agree wit you 100 percent.

Going to Disney is very expensive now a days and people need to save.

 

[DCLMP]

Sorry didn't mean to start anything. Just was disagreeing with the portion where you said "the fortunate ones can afford it." So I just took that to mean that being well off enough for a pricey vacation is "fortunate", whereas I consider it "deserved".
But perhaps you just mean that this board is not really a representative section of folks. Maybe us DISers are "fortunate" that we have some spare time to check boards and do this sort of extra outside research and maybe others cannot do that?

A lot of people work really hard and never make enough money for WDW. There’s many more factors than just working hard. I can consider myself fortunate.

 

[Dakota731]

Work hard and work smart as well. Choose a major that offers great job opportunities and growth. You may not get your dream job with an art, music or sports major, so maybe you can enjoy those things as a hobby. My husband told our daughter when she complained about having to clean bathrooms as part of her first fast food job - “that’s why they call it work!” Get training or extra education if needed to get promoted. Show up on time and have minimal absences.
I refuse to believe that success in this country is just a result of luck. As someone who worked her own way through college without help or support from anyone, I know it can be done. And to give kids a defeatist attitude that their futures all depend on luck, is a very pessimistic view, in my opinion.

 

[DanceDisney23]

Work hard and work smart as well. Choose a major that offers great job opportunities and growth. You may not get your dream job with an art, music or sports major, so maybe you can enjoy those things as a hobby. My husband told our daughter when she complained about having to clean bathrooms as part of her first fast food job - “that’s why they call it work!” Get training or extra education if needed to get promoted. Show up on time and have minimal absences.
I refuse to believe that success in this country is just a result of luck. As someone who worked her own way through college without help or support from anyone, I know it can be done. And to give kids a defeatist attitude that their futures all depend on luck, is a very pessimistic view, in my opinion.

There also is something to be said about choosing a career path that one shows interest in and aptitude for. I know I would much rather cross a bridge that was designed by a civil engineer who loves math and figuring out structural issues than by one who primarily loves a steady paycheck.

 

[QueenIsabella]

There also is something to be said about choosing a career path that one shows interest in and aptitude for. I know I would much rather cross a bridge that was designed by a civil engineer who loves math and figuring out structural issues than by one who primarily loves a steady paycheck.

Yeah, a lot of people leave engineering programs because they can't handle the math. You have to LOVE math to succeed! You remember back in school, your eyes glazing over in math class, and there's the one idiot in the front row, waving her arms and going, "ME! ME! Pick ME!!!!" I was that person. And have an engineering degree.

My husband isn't as comfortable with math as I am, but he can do it. More importantly, he's the guy who won't sign off on ANYTHING until he's 100% satisfied that his concerns have been addressed. It doesn't always win him fans, but he's the guy you want to design/build/overhaul nuclear power plants.

My son was going to go chemical engineering--he took two semesters of calculus through dual enrollment, and changed his major to international studies. It's a much better fit for him.

 

[StarCruzer]

Ah I do politely disagree with a few statements here. There is something that exists called "survivorship bias" which is basically when you go through a difficult time, work hard, and come out the other side OK, you automatically assume that the positive outcome was 100% due to the hard work you put in. You tend to discount luck.

And I say this as someone who has worked hard, but also had a LOT of good luck. I make a very good salary with a degree that many here would call useless: BA in English.

I graduated at the height of the recession and ended up working for a Banfield Animal hospital for three years; the woman who hired me was only serving as temporary manager and hired me at a rate WAY higher than she should have bc she just DGAF (good luck). I wrote for gaming blogs for little to no pay to expand my portfolio (hard work); even with all of my networking in that industry I watched as my male colleagues referred each other to the better-paying publications and left the women in the dust (bad luck).

My mom is a freelance writer, and mentioned that one of her clients was a county college which offered communications work-study jobs to current students (good luck). So I enrolled in night classes, paid out of pocket, in order to get that second job and get more experience in my field; essentially I had to pay to get an additional associate's degree in order to get more experience in my field. Because I was the older student who interviewed and had a stronger portfolio, I was hired (luck+hard work combo--our county college has an excellent reputation withe a lot of older students who attend to make a career change).

So two jobs: $13/hr at the animal hospital 45 hrs per week, $8 for the comms internship 2 days a week, and one night of class per week (hard work, but also a bit of luck that my manager at the Animal Hospital was OK with me working two jobs).

Once I had a more professional portfolio, I applied for internships. One was for my absolute dream company but it was full time, and offered only $8.50/hr. I was 26, living in a 2 bedroom apartment with two roommates and could definitely not survive on $8.50/hr, as I'd have to give up my full time job at the Animal Hospital which paid more and had full benefits. The second offer was for $16/hr ($21/hr in today's money), 401K benefits but no healthcare option. It was for a big company that had a reputation for promoting within. Even though it was corporate nonsense, I needed the money.

Here is where luck was heaviest: I had a family who was willing to help me spring for a really sharp corporate pantsuit (no way I could afford Tahari on my salary). I was so nervous that even though I researched the company ahead of time, I still made some big flubs in the interview. My hiring managers later specifically told me they look for people with a customer service background, because they have a service-centered attitude and adjust to corporate life quicker (not every manager has this mindset). Here is the biggest kicker: I worked for that company for nearly 8 years. In that 8 years, they never once advertised for that role publicly again. We ended up expanding our intern program and at any given time, had 3-4 interns on our communications team. And every. single. one. was a referral from a current employee; usually the college age kid of some high up manager who wasn't even qualified. The intern that started three months after me was the son of a VP's friend who drove a Lexus to work.

Did I work very hard? Yes, I did. I was promoted four times in those 8 years. But I think about all the time where I might be if I hadn't gotten that first internship, if I didn't have good adults in my life who advised me to take the good paying, secure job over the "dream job." I think about the managers I had early in my career who were willing to teach and help me grow--all of whom were gone at the end of my tenure, replaced by new managers from outside departments that didn't care about the career development of their direct reports.

Anyway, the point is I'm not knocking hard work--you absolutely still need it to be successful. But I also recognize that luck played a pretty significant role too. I apologize if this is very off topic, but I've seen many very hard working people fail due to circumstances out of their control, and very incompetent people succeed because they were in the right place at the right time. Life is just crazy that way.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me of course--we all have different life experiences. Sorry in advance to the mods if my little TED talk doesn't belong here