disgusted ----- big ben....

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

this back and forth has been funny to read since unless one of you is a member of the Steelers front office or the Rooney family you have no idea of what they were or were not trying to do with Ben.

Just because they publically said they didn't want to trade him doesnt mean squat.....owners/gm/coaches say stuff to the media all the time and then do the exact opposite down the road.

Somebody said else said that "You don't develop QBs as starters. The teams that have been successful at this are few and far between" not sure what you are referring to but many teams have been successful drafting QBs and using them as starters early in their career. Tom Brady was a starter in his 2nd year...as was Drew Brees. Peyton Manning was the starter from day 1, Eli Manning started 1/2 of his rookie year and then from there on out.

You think Indy and NY "developed" the Mannings? Umm no, those teams drafted a star. Big difference between drafting a star and developing QBs. What the Bears tried to do with Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton would be considered developing and they failed miserably. And heck, even when you draft a star QB it doesn't always work out, just look at Matt Leinart.

 

[ICF]

You think Indy and NY "developed" the Mannings? Umm no, those teams drafted a star. Big difference between drafting a star and developing QBs. What the Bears tried to do with Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton would be considered developing and they failed miserably. And heck, even when you draft a star QB it doesn't always work out, just look at Matt Leinart.

So because the Mannings & Co. worked out it doesn't count, but what the Bears did (or didnt do) means that you normally can't develop QBs? Most teams starting QB's were drafted in round 1 or 2. They are drafted b/c they were good in college and teams think they will be stars. Some work (Manning's), some dont (Leinart / Ryan Leaf) and some are much better than anyone ever thought (Brady)

To your example....

Grossman was a 1st round pick (#22) that didnt work out - he was no more picked to be developed then Aaron Rogers or Roethlisberger.

Orton was a mid round pick--saw him play at Purdue...could have told them that he wasnt that great. He was a risk that didnt work, but would agree he was more of a developmental pick.

Random Other NFL QBs-
Brees - 1st pick of Rd 2.
Rivers - #4 pick of Rd 1
Rodgers - #24 pick of Rd 1
Roethlisberger - #11 pick of Rd 1
Palmer - #1 pick overall
Schaub - #27 pick of Rd 3 - later Rd pick whostarted every game in 2nd season.
Flacco - #18 pick of Rd 1
Ryan - #3 pick of Rd 1

I didnt check on everyone, but I would guess it would be very safe to say that not many QB's end up regulars in the NFL that were picked in the 4-7th rounds of the draft. Most starting NFL QB's were drafted with the intent to have them be the starting QB in their 1st or 2nd seasons. Some work out....and some dont. It probably speaks as much to the talent of the team they went to as it does to the player themselves.

 

[sparklynails23]

Checking stubhub the first home game for the Packers has 8 pages of tickets available. The Steelers home game has 4 pages. Given the population base of those two teams, it would appear that nobody wants to sell their Steelers tickets. Check the Saints, who are Super Bowl champs and the town is insane for them at the moment... 13 pages of tickets for sale.

Trying to equate tickets available for sale with the actions of a player and the towns supposed disapproval is clearly not possible. If anything, this silly example disproves your point.

You have to look at individual days. They run the same adds consecutive days. Pittsburgh has four pages of adds for yesterday. Green Bay has less than one. Unsually, Pittsburgh has zilch. Tickets around the 'burgh are easy to get this year. People are dying to get rid of them-- more than last year when the economy was worse. Ben has created a negative feeling about this year. People just aren't as riled up.

 

[Hannathy]

People are dying to get rid of them-- more than last year when the economy was worse.

Please tell me where you are that the economy is better this year? I'm sure a lot of people would like to high tail it there.

 

[bonoriffic]

You have to look at individual days. They run the same adds consecutive days. Pittsburgh has four pages of adds for yesterday. Green Bay has less than one. Unsually, Pittsburgh has zilch. Tickets around the 'burgh are easy to get this year. People are dying to get rid of them-- more than last year when the economy was worse. Ben has created a negative feeling about this year. People just aren't as riled up.

I mentioned StubHub, not Craig's List. Stubhub is the standard for sporting tickets to buy and sell. Greater Pittsburgh has a population of over 2 million. Greater Green Bay has a population of 200,000. Trying to compare tickets up for sale in populations that are 10 times different in size is pushing it, especially using a service that is geared toward urban city dwellers which Green Bay most certainly is not.

Your argument that anti-Ben feelings are causing a surge in tickets being put up for sale clearly has no way of being proven. I think compared to other larger market teams, Pittsburgh has fewer tickets for sale. Other than you claiming it, the limited evidence we could use seems to indicate people in Pittsburgh want to see the Steelers as much as before.

Ben's legacy as you put it will be Super Bowl wins.

 

[sparklynails23]

Eh, you're reachin.' Took a quick look at Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Indianapolis pro football ticket postings, and they're about the same as Green Bay. There's some reason Pittsburgh's different, and it's different from last year (I watch). It's Roethlisberger, plain and simple.

 

[JerseyJanice]

Ray Lewis killed 2 people, was arrested for it, and eventually struck a deal for obstruction of justice. He never served a single game suspension. The NFL openly uses Ray Lewis for their promotion and marketing.

Mark Chmura was arrested for sexual assault of his 17 year old babysitter. He admits his behavior "wasn't something a married man should do." The NFL never suspended him, allowing him to try a comeback with 2 NFL teams after his arrest.

Ben is a saint compared to these two monsters, yet he got a 4 game suspension without ever being arrested. The other two were arrested and are considered NFL greats.

Why the disparity? Because NFL players in 2009 were killing people (Stallworth), shooting people (Burress), and failing drug tests and being allowed to play in title games (Vikings). This was also fresh after Vick, Pac Man Jones, and Tank Johnson the previous year. The NFL took a huge hit in 2009 and needed some credibility fast. The first chance they got to improve their image the NFL jumped at and poor Big Ben was made an example of to boost public opinion.

The only person Burress ever shot was himself--accidentally when the heat he was packing fell out of the waistband in his sweatpants. For the amount of time he will have to serve, his NFL career is likely over.

What Plax did was ridiculously stupid, but Lewis got away relatively scott-free with murder. Where is the justice in that?

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

You have to look at individual days. They run the same adds consecutive days. Pittsburgh has four pages of adds for yesterday. Green Bay has less than one. Unsually, Pittsburgh has zilch. Tickets around the 'burgh are easy to get this year. People are dying to get rid of them-- more than last year when the economy was worse. Ben has created a negative feeling about this year. People just aren't as riled up.

Do you even live here in Pittsburgh and what kind of people around here aren't riled up? People I hang out with are. Don't speak for us people here in Pittsburgh because there are plenty just posting in this thread who are behind Ben and plenty of us in the city of Pittsburgh also.

I can't wait for Steeler football. And yes I sold away some of my season tickets. All of the tickets...until Ben returns! Am I getting less than other years, no! I sell my tickets to make money for Christmas and Disney trips. Are people selling their tickets for face value? Heck no. If they really wanted the tickets gone to make a statement, they would sell them at face value. But they are being sold for way over face value. I know mine are.

Eh, you're reachin.' Took a quick look at Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Indianapolis pro football ticket postings, and they're about the same as Green Bay. There's some reason Pittsburgh's different, and it's different from last year (I watch). It's Roethlisberger, plain and simple.

Its not differnt , there are always tickets for sale. People sell them for differnt reasons. I always sell at least 3-4 of my games . And if you think tickets aren't always for sale , then you haven't been looking. People keep giving you examples, but you can't see it.

My neighbors down the street sold their whole season this year. Why? Not because of Ben, but because they can't afford them and needed extra money since both their hours were cut at work. Yep, great economy we have here.

 

[declansdad]

So because the Mannings & Co. worked out it doesn't count, but what the Bears did (or didnt do) means that you normally can't develop QBs? Most teams starting QB's were drafted in round 1 or 2. They are drafted b/c they were good in college and teams think they will be stars. Some work (Manning's), some dont (Leinart / Ryan Leaf) and some are much better than anyone ever thought (Brady)

To your example....

Grossman was a 1st round pick (#22) that didnt work out - he was no more picked to be developed then Aaron Rogers or Roethlisberger.

Orton was a mid round pick--saw him play at Purdue...could have told them that he wasnt that great. He was a risk that didnt work, but would agree he was more of a developmental pick.

Random Other NFL QBs-
Brees - 1st pick of Rd 2.
Rivers - #4 pick of Rd 1
Rodgers - #24 pick of Rd 1
Roethlisberger - #11 pick of Rd 1
Palmer - #1 pick overall
Schaub - #27 pick of Rd 3 - later Rd pick whostarted every game in 2nd season.
Flacco - #18 pick of Rd 1
Ryan - #3 pick of Rd 1

I didnt check on everyone, but I would guess it would be very safe to say that not many QB's end up regulars in the NFL that were picked in the 4-7th rounds of the draft. Most starting NFL QB's were drafted with the intent to have them be the starting QB in their 1st or 2nd seasons. Some work out....and some dont. It probably speaks as much to the talent of the team they went to as it does to the player themselves.

Go through the last couple of drafts and you won't find many of the drafted QBs as starters or even number 2 on the depth chart.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

Somebody said else said that "You don't develop QBs as starters. The teams that have been successful at this are few and far between" not sure what you are referring to but many teams have been successful drafting QBs and using them as starters early in their career. Tom Brady was a starter in his 2nd year...as was Drew Brees. Peyton Manning was the starter from day 1, Eli Manning started 1/2 of his rookie year and then from there on out.

So because the Mannings & Co. worked out it doesn't count, but what the Bears did (or didnt do) means that you normally can't develop QBs? Most teams starting QB's were drafted in round 1 or 2. They are drafted b/c they were good in college and teams think they will be stars. Some work (Manning's), some dont (Leinart / Ryan Leaf) and some are much better than anyone ever thought (Brady)

To your example....

Grossman was a 1st round pick (#22) that didnt work out - he was no more picked to be developed then Aaron Rogers or Roethlisberger.

Orton was a mid round pick--saw him play at Purdue...could have told them that he wasnt that great. He was a risk that didnt work, but would agree he was more of a developmental pick.

Random Other NFL QBs-
Brees - 1st pick of Rd 2.
Rivers - #4 pick of Rd 1
Rodgers - #24 pick of Rd 1
Roethlisberger - #11 pick of Rd 1
Palmer - #1 pick overall
Schaub - #27 pick of Rd 3 - later Rd pick whostarted every game in 2nd season.
Flacco - #18 pick of Rd 1
Ryan - #3 pick of Rd 1

I didnt check on everyone, but I would guess it would be very safe to say that not many QB's end up regulars in the NFL that were picked in the 4-7th rounds of the draft. Most starting NFL QB's were drafted with the intent to have them be the starting QB in their 1st or 2nd seasons. Some work out....and some dont. It probably speaks as much to the talent of the team they went to as it does to the player themselves.

I'm confused by what point you're trying to make here. Yes obviously some teams draft QBs and yes they are expected to start. You don't draft a QB with the intention of him bring high quality H20 to the rest of the team.

The point is that very rarely does a team draft and develop a STAR quarterback. When you have a star qb, you DON'T trade him, ever.

So when someone says the Steelers could just go out and develop another QB, that is absolutely laughable.

 

[DebbieB]

You have to look at individual days. They run the same adds consecutive days. Pittsburgh has four pages of adds for yesterday. Green Bay has less than one. Unsually, Pittsburgh has zilch. Tickets around the 'burgh are easy to get this year. People are dying to get rid of them-- more than last year when the economy was worse. Ben has created a negative feeling about this year. People just aren't as riled up.

Living in Pittsburgh, I just don't see that. At the time it all came out, people were upset but now that the football season is about to start, I just don't see a big difference in attitude from prior years.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

You have teams out there that are three deep in possibly adequate quarterbacks. The Steelers could find one if they wanted to.

An adequate QB is not a replacement for Big Ben who is a perennial pro bowler and sure fire hall of famer.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

If they could have gotten rid of his contract and put that money into developing someone else, I could see them do it. It would be a re-building year, and the stands would still be full.

ETA: Check out all the Steelers tickets for sale on Craigslist. Unbelievable. You never see that many for sale- not ever. That's Big Ben's legacy.

That doesn't mean the games aren't still sold out. They probably all are.

And if for some reason fans aren't going to the game, that says more about the quality of fans than it does about any one player on the team.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

That doesn't mean the games aren't still sold out. They probably all are.

And if for some reason fans aren't going to the game, that says more about the quality of fans than it does about any one player on the team.

Games are always sold out. 98% of Heinz Field are season ticket holders. There is a 20 year (approxmate could be more) waiting list for season tickets.

The 2% of the remaining tickets at Heinz Field are sold back in June through ticketmaster. Those tickets sell out in minutes.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

Games are always sold out. 98% of Heinz Field are season ticket holders. There is a 20 year (approxmate could be more) waiting list for season tickets.

The 2% of the remaining tickets at Heinz Field are sold back in June through ticketmaster. Those tickets sell out in minutes.

That's what I figured. Don't understand what sparkly is getting at? People selling tickets above face through ads is not a new thing.

 

[bonoriffic]

Eh, you're reachin.' Took a quick look at Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Indianapolis pro football ticket postings, and they're about the same as Green Bay. There's some reason Pittsburgh's different, and it's different from last year (I watch). It's Roethlisberger, plain and simple.

I've already debunked your theory as New Orleans had significantly more tickets up for sale than Pittsburgh and as evidenced by last night that town is crazy for football. Their city hall and public schools even let out early for the game. Tickets available for sale don't equal some protest against the team or individual, despite what you seem to think.

For some reason you have a vendetta against a man who has never even been charged with a crime, and somehow think he has soured the entire city on Steeler football. The only thing plain and simple seems to be your bias. All the evidence everyone has pointed to seems to show his actions have no measurable affect on team sales and desire to watch by the city at large.

 

[PghLybrt]

Do you even live here in Pittsburgh and what kind of people around here aren't riled up? People I hang out with are. Don't speak for us people here in Pittsburgh because there are plenty just posting in this thread who are behind Ben and plenty of us in the city of Pittsburgh also.

I can't wait for Steeler football. And yes I sold away some of my season tickets. All of the tickets...until Ben returns! Am I getting less than other years, no! I sell my tickets to make money for Christmas and Disney trips. Are people selling their tickets for face value? Heck no. If they really wanted the tickets gone to make a statement, they would sell them at face value. But they are being sold for way over face value. I know mine are.

.

Went to Kathy Griffin last night, she started the night off with a Ben joke and recieved quite the boos because of it.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

Went to Kathy Griffin last night, she started the night off with a Ben joke and recieved quite the boos because of it.

 

[ChicagoFitnessClub]

Long Live Big Ben!

 

[danalee]

Black-n-Gold day in the Burgh...yeah I was rockin' my Ben Jersey