Discipline advice needed.....

[Liberty Belle]

I am completely overwhelmed and grateful to all that took some time out of their day to offer me some advice. Thank you! I am beginning to realize that I am being too hard on him. I think I will cut him some slack and just remind him that it makes me sad when he brings those notes home. As far as his academics, I will set up a conference with his teacher just to make sure he is where he should be. Being a parent is the hardest job ever, and I wish I had an owners manual. I just want to have kids that are healthy, happy and respectful. Not much to ask for, or is it?

I went through the same thing as you. We just made consequences worse and worse thinking eventually he'd "get it." Well, all that did was cause a lot more problems.

Our son has been diagnosed with ADHD (and SID and anxiety, plus has dysgraphia). Since then, we've let up on consequences (still has them, but they're not as severe, more consistent, and dished out more calmly). This has helped so much.

He's on a behavior plan at school and gets help once a day for 30 minutes for his dysgraphia. He also has a therapy band attached to his desk (it's like a huge piece of rubber that he can push on with his feet). This year has been WONDERFUL!

 

[dimimi]

I haven't read all of the comments, so forgive me if this has already been stated. But, as a long time teacher, it does NOT help elementary aged students to take AWAY their recess time. All of the kids need a break, especially the students who have difficulty staying on task and acting appropriately. I will agree it is frustrating to find an effective consequence, since there aren't many options in school.

I would find out if the classroom allows for movement and some talking. Some teachers expect silence for long period of time and no movement, that is difficult for most students.

 

[nowellsl]

I am NOT suggesting that your son has ADD/HD, but I did want to point out that the ability to focus intently on something they enjoy (like Legos) is not a disqualifier, it's actually common in kids with it.

This is correct!! I haven't read through all the threads, but the first couple of pages was enough. I hear lazy and unmotivated and automatically think ADD. It's very common for kids (or adults for that matter) with ADD to be labeled this way! Get an evaluation, it couldn't hurt to at least rule it out!

 

[rchristiansen]

I believe it was mentioned that your DS was not as socially mature as the other kids in his class, was poor academically and had poor handwriting. Perhaps repeating a grade would be helpful? I'm no expert, but it sounds like maybe he isn't placed in the correct grade.

 

[bumcat]

I am completely at my witts end with my DS8. He has a real problem with listening (as a lot of kids do I know) but he is getting in trouble in school. It is only 3 weeks into school and he has already had 2 notes sent home about his behavior. NOT LISTENING! He barely listens at home too. I went through this with him last year and we did the positive rewards (earning stickers and then a reward for good behavior) and that didn't work either. Now I am resorting to grounding him. Can anyone offer me any advice as to what to do? I feel that If I make the punishments miserable enough that maybe he will finally get the message? I took all toys and entertainment out of his bedroom and am making him stay in there with only books for the whole weekend and that has been a challenge getting him to stay in there. I really don't know what else to do to get him to understand that not listening at school and at home equals consequences. He just does not get it!

He received two notes in 3 weeks. Was the not listening all day long or just a small time period?

 

[no capes darling]

Handwriting which is jumbled together with no spaces can be a sign of dysgraphia.

Dysgraphia means difficulty with handwriting. There are several different kinds of dysgraphia. Some people with dysgraphia have handwriting that is illegible and shows irregular and inconsistent letter formations. Others write legibly, but very slowly, or very small. When these individuals revert to printing, as they often do, their writing is often a random mixture of upper and lower case letters. In all cases of dysgraphia, writing requires inordinate amounts of energy, stamina and time.

It would be worth looking into this disability. Does he do better typing than writing.

Can also be a sign of an eye teaming problem. http://childrensvision.com/symptoms.htm other links on that page are very helpful

 

[princessmom29]

I wish everyone was not so quick to jump on the "ther must be a diagnosis" bandwagon here because honestly, it sounds to me like you just have a strong willed kid here and you need to find his "currency". Once you hit on what motivates him to do what is expected of him you can be more successful in controling his behavior. I disagree with removing punishment. He needs to be held accountable for his actions, good and bad, in a way that matters TO HIM. What makes him happy? Find the answer, and make him work to get it. Finding a diagnosis to absolve him from responsibility is NOT the answer. Holding him responsible for his own behavior in a consistent manner is. I agree with the PP who said that yelling and histronics won't help. There should be a set consequence for poor behavior that is applied consistently without drama.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I wish everyone was not so quick to jump on the "ther must be a diagnosis" bandwagon here because honestly, it sounds to me like you just have a strong willed kid here and you need to find his "currency". Once you hit on what motivates him to do what is expected of him you can be more successful in controling his behavior. I disagree with removing punishment. He needs to be held accountable for his actions, good and bad, in a way that matters TO HIM. What makes him happy? Find the answer, and make him work to get it. Finding a diagnosis to absolve him from responsibility is NOT the answer. Holding him responsible for his own behavior in a consistent manner is. I agree with the PP who said that yelling and histronics won't help. There should be a set consequence for poor behavior that is applied consistently without drama.

I don't think that everyone is so quick to diagnose him, but when you have a child with ADHD or you've taught several children with ADHD, you do recognize the red flags and there are several (not just behavior) flags in the OP's posts. Furthermore, a diagnosis of ADHD does not in any way "absolve him from responsibility" and children with ADHD are still held responsible for their behavior.

 

[lukenick1]

He received two notes in 3 weeks. Was the not listening all day long or just a small time period?

The kids are on a traffic light system. They get three warnings a day..... first warning, green light, second warning they go to the yellow light, 3rd time to red. If they get a red light in any given day a note goes home that must be signed by the parent and returned. If they get 3 days of red light they go to the Principle. This was his second red light since August 30th. So apparently throughout the day he did not listen at 3 occasions. Now it could have just been not lining up in time when told, talking out without raising his hand, talking to a friend during a lesson, etc. Not that he was being a horrible kid, destroying things, hitting, etc. Just needs to follow the rules of the classroom. The teacher and I spoke briefly at Open House and he did say that this year is going to be very tough for him. This is the year they have to really work and not play. This is the year they will have to become very responsible for their things. Making sure to take home homework, bringing things back in to school, remembering to raise their hands, etc. He plans to really crack down on him.

 

[ZephyrHawk]

His maturity level is that of a 2nd grader not a 3rd grader and that is what the teacher has told me.

Okay, I know a lot of advice has already been given, but I really wanted to highlight this phrase. Have you considered having your son held back a year? I know that this sort of thing isn't done as much as it was in my day, but I know a number of people who benefitted from being held back a year (usually around 2nd or 3rd grade) and allowed to mature at their own pace. It seems to me that, by saying this to the OP, this action is exactly what the teacher was trying to suggest.

 

[5lilfish]

Okay, I know a lot of advice has already been given, but I really wanted to highlight this phrase. Have you considered having your son held back a year? I know that this sort of thing isn't done as much as it was in my day, but I know a number of people who benefitted from being held back a year (usually around 2nd or 3rd grade) and allowed to mature at their own pace. It seems to me that, by saying this to the OP, this action is exactly what the teacher was trying to suggest.

I'm going to warn against this. Well, not really against it, but I would not hold a child back simply because they were less mature. Especially based off of what one teacher says. Just be careful... As I said, my son had a horrible year in 3rd grade. It was mostly due to a very bad personality match with the teacher and because we had not yet diagnosed his disability. He could have easily been called less mature. Flash forward...he is a freshman in high school now. As a freshman, he is taking 3 sophmore classes. He is an honor roll kid. He probably still could be called a little less mature, or better yet more naive. If I had held him back (which I never considered), he would have been purely miserable. While he is a little less mature in some ways, he is leaps and bounds above his peers in others. I'm sure his 3rd grade teacher would not have seen it that way though.

I don't know that the teacher was suggesting this anyway. It seems awful to me that a teacher would suggest holding a child back when it's only September.

Jess

 

[princessmom29]

I don't think that everyone is so quick to diagnose him, but when you have a child with ADHD or you've taught several children with ADHD, you do recognize the red flags and there are several (not just behavior) flags in the OP's posts. Furthermore, a diagnosis of ADHD does not in any way "absolve him from responsibility" and children with ADHD are still held responsible for their behavior.

I am a teacher. I have seen ADHD, and much more often I have seen that label slapped on a kid as an excuse for poor behavior. I don't see any obvious "red flags" in her post that shouldn't be addressed through consistent, reasonable consequences BEFORE considering testing. I guess that is my beef. Eeveryone jumps on "he must be ADHD" without even suggesting trying solid parenting techniques FIRST. It they don't work, then mabye there is a problem, but I would certainly try them first.

 

[5lilfish]

I am a teacher. I have seen ADHD, and much more often I have seen that label slapped on a kid as an excuse for poor behavior. I don't see any obvious "red flags" in her post that shouldn't be addressed through consistent, reasonable consequences BEFORE considering testing. I guess that is my beef. Eeveryone jumps on "he must be ADHD" without even suggesting trying solid parenting techniques FIRST. It they don't work, then mabye there is a problem, but I would certainly try them first.

It sounded to me that the OP was frustrated because they have tried a few things and it doesn't seem to make a difference. Well, if there is a medical issue, you can try all sorts of methods and it will help as much as banging your head against a brick wall, and it will hurt everyone that much too.

As a parent of a child with ADHD, I do see red flags. I am not saying that the child has it. I am saying that it would be a good idea to rule it out.

I hate when people suggest that a child is labelled as an excuse for poor behavior. I'm sure that does happen, but it still hurts to hear people suggest it. I even had to stop dealing with a portion of my husband's family because they don't believe my son has any issues other than behavioral/parenting. This, despite 3 professionals diagnosing him with Asperger's (very mild) and ADHD. We have 5 kids.....4 without a diagnosis. Nevermind that we didn't "slap a label" on the other 4. Plus, my son is not a behavior problem. The only time he ever had trouble in school was 3rd grade and it was the same sort of little things the OP's son is doing; talking when he shouldn't, not staying lined up, etc...not exactly signs of a juvenile delinquent. Other than that, teachers usually love my son.

Jess

 

[princessmom29]

It sounded to me that the OP was frustrated because they have tried a few things and it doesn't seem to make a difference. Well, if there is a medical issue, you can try all sorts of methods and it will help as much as banging your head against a brick wall, and it will hurt everyone that much too.

As a parent of a child with ADHD, I do see red flags. I am not saying that the child has it. I am saying that it would be a good idea to rule it out.

I hate when people suggest that a child is labelled as an excuse for poor behavior. I'm sure that does happen, but it still hurts to hear people suggest it. I even had to stop dealing with a portion of my husband's family because they don't believe my son has any issues other than behavioral/parenting. This, despite 3 professionals diagnosing him with Asperger's (very mild) and ADHD. We have 5 kids.....4 without a diagnosis. Nevermind that we didn't "slap a label" on the other 4. Plus, my son is not a behavior problem. The only time he ever had trouble in school was 3rd grade and it was the same sort of little things the OP's son is doing; talking when he shouldn't, not staying lined up, etc...not exactly signs of a juvenile delinquent. Other than that, teachers usually love my son.

Jess

I was in no way suggesting that everyone ues a label as an excuse, but the sad fact is that MANY, MANY do. It makes it that mch hardere for parents like you who have a cild that truly has a disability to be taken seriuosly and gette help your child needs. It happens much more often than anyone would like to think. I teach children on the autism spectrum every day so I undertd those struggles as well, and I am I no way discounting that. I do wish that for the sake of those with a ligatimate diablilty that the mislabeling would stop.

I din't say that the child in the OP didn't have some red flags. I see them, but I feel like solid, resaonable, consistent long term disciplie ought to be the first step. A disgnosis should be sought only when solid parenting doesn't get results. It sounds to me that OP has made some parenting mistakes she now sees and needs to correct. I feel she should try to do so before seeking a diagnosis. Some children are simply strong willed and need more than others. That doesn't make them ADHD or anything else other than just kids.

 

[J/T Gramdma]

I am gathering from OP's post that her ds is "hearing" her and processing it just fine, he is choosing to not obey.

I would take him to have real hearing test by an audiologist. My dd at age 9/10 had the same problem with listening. The regular Dr said she had no hearing problem after his exam .When we took her to get a through test, she tested deaf in one ear. Because she could hear with the one ear,she was able to pass the quick hearing tests just fine but the noisy classroom caused all the sounds to mix up and made it even harder to hear.

 

[badblackpug]

As someone who knows lots of 'staff', you are really worrying way to much about that. If the 'staff' knew how you were reacting about their notes sent home...they'd probably make other judgements about you and stop sending notes to protect your son. I've seen that happen on several occasions. Just had dinner with my teacher friends last night and this topic came up again. I never hear names of kids or parents; they are professional in that way but the lamenting of a child who gets in too much trouble is a big issue. Back off and work with the teacher. Call them, go in and talk, ask about what she/he wants you to do to back her up. You have a fun loving, immature child. Perhaps he needs some one on one help-teacher type. Is he young? 100 times writing anything for a kid who can't write is torture. Ten might have worked and IF your measures had not been so severe, he would not have had to lie to protect himself. I know I'm being harsh but why not sit down and write " I will pay attention in class' 100 times and tell me how much-as an adult who can write well-you liked it!
Sorry, I'm a little frustrated here and probably need to leave this thread.
Good luck. I hope you can get peaceful about this.

I am going on a little tangent here, so please indulge me.

This ^^^^ is what makes it so hard to deal with the school sometimes. Teachers want us to be their partners, to help out, yet now I'm hearing when we reinforce them we are too harsh? It seems like a d@mned if you do, and d@mned if you don't situation. If we don't reinforce things at home we are uninvolved and we don't care, if we do then we are overly harsh or "helicopter."

In the OPs case, I do think the punishment fit the crime. If my child came home with a note stating that he was an issue 3 times in 1 day in school there would, indeed, be consequences. If a second note came home, the consequences would be harsher. If my child forged a note to his teacher.... the consequences would be HUGE. An 8 year old is more than old enough to know that this is totally unacceptable.

We hear so much from teachers that they want us to help them, but the above post says more to me that the teachers want to parent or decide how we should parent our children. I think that if the in school punishment were enough, or if the teacher felt the parent really didn't need to be involved, why even send home a note?

If you send me a note saying that my kid is a discipline problem you can be sure I am going to address it.

 

[lukenick1]

I am going on a little tangent here, so please indulge me.

This ^^^^ is what makes it so hard to deal with the school sometimes. Teachers want us to be their partners, to help out, yet now I'm hearing when we reinforce them we are too harsh? It seems like a d@mned if you do, and d@mned if you don't situation. If we don't reinforce things at home we are uninvolved and we don't care, if we do then we are overly harsh or "helicopter."

In the OPs case, I do think the punishment fit the crime. If my child came home with a note stating that he was an issue 3 times in 1 day in school there would, indeed, be consequences. If a second note came home, the consequences would be harsher. If my child forged a note to his teacher.... the consequences would be HUGE. An 8 year old is more than old enough to know that this is totally unacceptable.

We hear so much from teachers that they want us to help them, but the above post says more to me that the teachers want to parent or decide how we should parent our children. I think that if the in school punishment were enough, or if the teacher felt the parent really didn't need to be involved, why even send home a note?

If you send me a note saying that my kid is a discipline problem you can be sure I am going to address it.

 

[Shelly888]

I would strongly advise getting your son tested for learning disabilities. Often these kids are misdiagnosed as having ADD/ADHD, or just labeled as unmotivated, lazy, etc. Often they are very bright, their brains just work and function differently.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I am a teacher. I have seen ADHD, and much more often I have seen that label slapped on a kid as an excuse for poor behavior. I don't see any obvious "red flags" in her post that shouldn't be addressed through consistent, reasonable consequences BEFORE considering testing. I guess that is my beef. Eeveryone jumps on "he must be ADHD" without even suggesting trying solid parenting techniques FIRST. It they don't work, then mabye there is a problem, but I would certainly try them first.

I'm not going to argue with you. I see obvious red flags (I'm not a teacher, but a para and a mother to a child with ADHD, so I've done a lot of research).

I would like to say, though, that there's no harm in having him tested. No one is suggesting running to the doctor to ask for meds.

I suppose if the child's behavior was off at home and at school and both sets of Conner's indicated ADHD, AND if the counselor/psychologist/LSW didn't use any other diagnostics to determine ADHD, he could be diagnosed when it's a simple behavior problem, but when my son was diagnosed there were several other tests given that measured his impulsivity, focus, frustration level, amongst other things. You can't fake those.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Okay, question.

Is it always some kind of "affliction" or another, are there no more instances of a kid just being a brat and bad parenting???

Is there an excuse for everything these days?

Just throwin' it out there.