Discipline advice needed.....

[Liberty Belle]

Okay, question.

Is it always some kind of "affliction" or another, are there no more instances of a kid just being a brat and bad parenting???

Is there an excuse for everything these days?

Just throwin' it out there.

No, there are often kids just behaving badly and there are many bad parents.

I hope you're not calling ADHD an "excuse." It's a legitimate disorder and you cannot be diagnosed without a specific set of symptoms.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Oh heck no, there are definitely issues out there. No doubt about it. It's just, IMHO, that there are kids I know that are just stinking brats (not even speaking of my own, for the moment anyway ) that get away with rotten behavior because the parents choose not to address it.

BTW not speaking of OP.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Oh heck no, there are definitely issues out there. No doubt about it. It's just, IMHO, that there are kids I know that are just stinking brats (not even speaking of my own, for the moment anyway ) that get away with rotten behavior because the parents choose not to address it.

BTW not speaking of OP.

OH, that's for sure!

I've just run into some teachers who basically act like ADHD doesn't exist and that the kids are just "bad" or the parents have not disciplined them. To me, someone who has worked with regular ed kids and special need kids, you usually can tell the difference. Besides, almost always with kids with ADHD it's more than just behavior problems and sometimes the behavior problems are very slight or even non-existant.

Luckily, these have been teachers I've worked with and not my son's teachers. His first grade teacher was a doozy, but this year, last year, and kindergarten he's had really good teachers.

 

[lukenick1]

OP here....
I as the mother of this child, I can honestly say that I do not think, nor have I ever thought my son was ADHD. I do think that he acts the way he does for attention. Had a long talk with my BFF and she did point out how I am way too hard on him and that I worry way too much about what people think. He is just being a silly little boy. He is not even a discipline problem, just does not like school and wants to have fun and play. He is not being destructive, he is not being physical to others, he is not a bad seed, just plain wants to be silly. I am NOT a bad parent, but I AM famous for not being consistent with threats. I merely came on here looking for advice on how to handle the situation at hand, promising to be consistent. I will be making an appointment with the Teacher and his Pediatrician to have his eyes and hearing checked. If he were ever to be diagnosed with ADHD, I would not treat it with medication anyway. Heck I am the Mom who didn't even want my boys vaccinated. Thanks to those who were on the same page as me, who were there for me to offer me some hugs and great advice. It is much appreciated. I will keep you posted on how things are going in the near future.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Parenting is hard. As another poster stated, oftentimes you are darned if you do, darned if you don't.

You are concerned. You are addressing it. You've been open and receptive to advice. It'll work out. BTW, I love silly, "live wire" boys. Many teachers know how to channel all that silly energy into a positive results (assigning a helper, catching kids being on task and praising them, discreet signals to bring a child back into the fold, etc.). Hopefully this teacher can employ some of those kind of strategies.

It is good to get your DS tested for vision and hearing.

Thanks for the updates.

 

[princessmom29]

I'm not going to argue with you. I see obvious red flags (I'm not a teacher, but a para and a mother to a child with ADHD, so I've done a lot of research).

I would like to say, though, that there's no harm in having him tested. No one is suggesting running to the doctor to ask for meds.

I suppose if the child's behavior was off at home and at school and both sets of Conner's indicated ADHD, AND if the counselor/psychologist/LSW didn't use any other diagnostics to determine ADHD, he could be diagnosed when it's a simple behavior problem, but when my son was diagnosed there were several other tests given that measured his impulsivity, focus, frustration level, amongst other things. You can't fake those.

read my post agian. I didn't say that I didn't see red flags. They are there, but they are behavioral in nature and do not seem to be concentration related. As you said, behavior alone should not determine ADHD, but sadly kids are often labeled incorrectly basedon behavior alone and never fully tested. If the behavior can be addressed and corrected through consistent disciple then the root cause is most likely NOT ADHD. If ther were other markers in other areas, then yes testing would be advisible but when the problem is largely behavioral, addressing the behavior is usually the first step.

 

[lukenick1]

read my post agian. I didn't say that I didn't see red flags. They are there, but they are behavioral in nature and do not seem to be concentration related. As you said, behavior alone should not determine ADHD, but sadly kids are often labeled incorrectly basedon behavior alone and never fully tested. If the behavior can be addressed and corrected through consistent disciple then the root cause is most likely NOT ADHD. If ther were other markers in other areas, then yes testing would be advisible but when the problem is largely behavioral, addressing the behavior is usually the first step.

What red flags to you see that could be an indicator to ADHD? Just curious.....

 

[princessmom29]

What red flags to you see that could be an indicator to ADHD? Just curious.....

The not listening. It could be that he heard and listened, but exhibited impulsive behavior in choosing to disobey. He may not have thought through the consequences.
Hiding the note. Another potential impuslive decision that was not thought through.

From what we know however, it is impossible to tell if it is typical kid behavior or ADHD. That is why I say try some consistent consequences first. If consistent consequences don't yield results then perhaps there is an impulse control issue which could be one of MANY factors of ADHD. I am NOT qualified to diagnose anyone, let me make that clear, but we as teachers have been taught what o look for to point to a possible problem.

 

[lukenick1]

The not listening. It could be that he heard and listened, but exhibited impulsive behavior in choosing to disobey. He may not have thought through the consequences.
Hiding the note. Another potential impuslive decision that was not thought through.

From what we know however, it is impossible to tell if it is typical kid behavior or ADHD. That is why I say try some consistent consequences first. If consistent consequences don't yield results then perhaps there is an impulse control issue which could be one of MANY factors of ADHD. I am NOT qualified to diagnose anyone, let me make that clear, but we as teachers have been taught what o look for to point to a possible problem.

These were the answers he had given me about not listening....
When he was told to line up from recess twice he just didn't move fast enough for the teacher. He said he was going to get in line but didn't do it fast enough.

Hiding the note was my fault, he was afraid of me making him write "I will listen at School" 200 times. I told him that was going to be his consequence if he brought a note home again, so he tried to hide it from me. Makes complete sense to me. I know I've tried to hide test papers and report cards from my parents when I was a kid for fear of getting grounded for a bad grade. I wanted to offer a really miserable consequence so he would try hard not to bring a note home. I really do think the teachers are really cracking down on the kids this year. Trying to get them ready for middle school. This year for him school is starting to be all business and I think he will have a hard time adjusting to that. He does have GREAT days and he will tell me the day of. He will say, "Mommy I am going to stay on the green today." I think some days he just wants to be a silly boy with no rules. I do not want him to get away with it though, because I know he is capable of being a good listener. Just not sure how to handle it? Trying to get advice here and not be too harsh as I have been.

 

[vettechick99]

I teach 1st grade. I have several ADHD kids in my class. Whenever I work with the doctors, they have me fill out one of these.

http://www.nichq.org/toolkits_publications/complete_adhd/04VanAssesScaleTeachInfor.pdf

You can look at it and fill one out just for personal reflection. If your son scores on the upper numbers, he may have ADHD. Many kids with ADHD have more issues than inattention. Most of mine have problems with organization, handwriting, blurting/interrupting, fidgeting/squirming, and not finishing work.

Either way, I would set a meeting up with your child's teachers and see what they say about his behavior at school. See what they suggest. Most experienced teachers are very familiar with what's ADHD and what's not. Good luck!

 

[janey99]

I would strongly advise getting your son tested for learning disabilities. Often these kids are misdiagnosed as having ADD/ADHD, or just labeled as unmotivated, lazy, etc. Often they are very bright, their brains just work and function differently.

Often, learning disabilities like reading disorders and writing disorders (dyslexia and dysgraphia) are co-morbid with ADHD as well. It's not a misdiagnosis, it all comes together and each has a negative compounding effect on the other.

OP, your son is in third grade, don't wait longer to have him checked for reading and writing disorders, he is more likely to get help in elementary school and the help is more likely to have greater impact than suddenly realizing something is up with him in middle school and trying to undo a lot of damage then.

Jane

 

[lukenick1]

Often, learning disabilities like reading disorders and writing disorders (dyslexia and dysgraphia) are co-morbid with ADHD as well. It's not a misdiagnosis, it all comes together and each has a negative compounding effect on the other.

OP, your son is in third grade, don't wait longer to have him checked for reading and writing disorders, he is more likely to get help in elementary school and the help is more likely to have greater impact than suddenly realizing something is up with him in middle school and trying to undo a lot of damage then.

Jane

Have an appointment to see his Teacher tomorrow. I will ask all these questions and more. We will get to the bottom of it one way or another.

 

["Got Disney"]

Have you had him checked for ADHD? If it is that than no matter what you do He will continue....my 14 yo has ADHD and once idealized this my discipline changed and so did he once on his medication....the first day on his meds he said he felt calm ands focused...his words were...mom all the Cobb webs ware gone...
This may not be the issue but does not hurt to find out...

 

[no capes darling]

Have an appointment to see his Teacher tomorrow. I will ask all these questions and more. We will get to the bottom of it one way or another.

Also check this link and the drop down menus for the vision and learning tab... http://childrensvision.com/learning.htm

 

[TinkPirateMom]

These were the answers he had given me about not listening....
When he was told to line up from recess twice he just didn't move fast enough for the teacher. He said he was going to get in line but didn't do it fast enough.

Hiding the note was my fault, he was afraid of me making him write "I will listen at School" 200 times. I told him that was going to be his consequence if he brought a note home again, so he tried to hide it from me. Makes complete sense to me. I know I've tried to hide test papers and report cards from my parents when I was a kid for fear of getting grounded for a bad grade. I wanted to offer a really miserable consequence so he would try hard not to bring a note home. I really do think the teachers are really cracking down on the kids this year. Trying to get them ready for middle school. This year for him school is starting to be all business and I think he will have a hard time adjusting to that. He does have GREAT days and he will tell me the day of. He will say, "Mommy I am going to stay on the green today." I think some days he just wants to be a silly boy with no rules. I do not want him to get away with it though, because I know he is capable of being a good listener. Just not sure how to handle it? Trying to get advice here and not be too harsh as I have been.

It seems that he has way more days that he stays on green all day then where he gets moved all the way to red, right? It also seems like many of his behaviors are attention-seeking, correct? Can you set up a reward at home to reinforce staying on green all day? For example, each day he stays on green all day he gets 20-30 minutes of one-on-one time with a parent perhaps playing legos or participating in another preferred activity of his. Then you will be reinforcing his good behaviors and you may find less need for punishing.

Also, I would ask the teacher what the consequence is for being moved down to red? Just that everyone sees he's on red (is there a classroom chart) and that a note gets sent home? Or is there some other consequence that happens in school in regards to being moved to red. I would also want to know what the system is for being moved back up. As a child isn't typically left on red all day. There is usually a way for them to move back up. I would be curious to know if he was doing what was required to be moved back up and how long he is actually on red.

 

[kirbydog48]

I told him if he gets a note sent home he will have to write "I will listen at school." 100 times on paper. If he gets another note it will be 200 times. He got the first note and wrote 100 times. Got a second note sent home and he hid it from me, forged my signature (lol he actually thought the teacher wouldn't notice the handwriting). When confronted why he hid the note he sadi he did not want to write. So getting him to write it was impossible so that's why i stripped his room of anything fun and have told him he needs to stay in there all weekend because of getting a second note, hiding it, forging my name on it, and not doing the writing. He still keeps trying to get out of his punishment making the whole house miserable. Here are some examples of not listening at school.
Told 2 times to line up from recess and ignored the teacher. Was asked to be quiet in line and continued to make silly noises. Chose to draw cartoons while he was being given directions on an assignment. Those were all on the last note I got from the teacher. He wants to be a clown and make the kids laugh so thats why he does silly things. His maturity level is that of a 2nd grader not a 3rd grader and that is what the teacher has told me. His academics are also very poor, horrific handwriting, spelling, etc. There are Kindergarteners that write and spell better than him. This is so hard for us to deal with because we have an older ds who is a straight A student who is very well behaved at school. Thank God it is not a reflection of us because we do have one good kid. Completely different personalities.

If your child's spelling and handwriting are poor, I would research dysgraphia, a learning and processing issue regarding written language. I really feel for your child. The fooling around may be a way to compensate for no one understanding his issues. And your obvious favoring one child over the other really concerns me! Please have your child tested asap, ask your school to do a full neuropsychological evaluation. These sound to me very much like behavior issues related to learning and attentional difficulties. Don't punish your child for things that may be neurological in nature.

 

[lukenick1]

And your obvious favoring one child over the other really concerns me! .

This statement is exactly why asking for advice on a public forum can become very frustrating!! I am favoring one child over the other? And you know that because????

 

[lukenick1]

It seems that he has way more days that he stays on green all day then where he gets moved all the way to red, right? It also seems like many of his behaviors are attention-seeking, correct? Can you set up a reward at home to reinforce staying on green all day? For example, each day he stays on green all day he gets 20-30 minutes of one-on-one time with a parent perhaps playing legos or participating in another preferred activity of his. Then you will be reinforcing his good behaviors and you may find less need for punishing.

Also, I would ask the teacher what the consequence is for being moved down to red? Just that everyone sees he's on red (is there a classroom chart) and that a note gets sent home? Or is there some other consequence that happens in school in regards to being moved to red. I would also want to know what the system is for being moved back up. As a child isn't typically left on red all day. There is usually a way for them to move back up. I would be curious to know if he was doing what was required to be moved back up and how long he is actually on red.

Thank you for the advice

 

[OceanAnnie]

I think TinkPirateMom brought up some good points.

The teacher sounds like he runs a very tight ship! Did your DS's teacher last year run the classroom in the same manner? It isn't always a matter of year to year expectations. Teachers vary in their expectations within grade level too. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, but it's a variable.

Some of what you listed didn't seem so bad to me. If your son doodled a bit, but still got his work done I don't see the harm in it. There were a few other things, but that one kind of stuck out the most to me. Granted it is the teacher's rule and I wouldn't "contest" it but like I said it appears to be a tight ship. I wouldn't encourage doodling either, just an observation.

 

[lukenick1]

I think TinkPirateMom brought up some good points.

The teacher sounds like he runs a very tight ship! Did your DS's teacher last year run the classroom in the same manner? It isn't always a matter of year to year expectations. Teachers vary in their expectations within grade level too. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, but it's a variable.

Some of what you listed didn't seem so bad to me. If your son doodled a bit, but still got his work done I don't see the harm in it. There were a few other things, but that one kind of stuck out the most to me. Granted it is the teacher's rule and I wouldn't "contest" it but like I said it appears to be a tight ship. I wouldn't encourage doodling either, just an observation.

I agree. There was a similar system last year with his teacher but he probably only brought home a note 4 times all year. For every good day he would bring home a "token" (small square piece of paper with a sticker on it that said he had a great day). She put him on a token system just to keep me posted on how his day was. I told him for every 5 tokens he would earn an ice cream cone from the ice cream shop. Seems like he always has a rough start to the school year, then by Christmas vacation thru the rest of the year he has snapped out of it. Maybe testing the waters with his teacher? The fact that he has already brought 2 notes home tells me that this teacher is super strict and is really going to be hard on them. He did tell me that this year grade 3 is all business. He also told me that he feels my sons maturity level is still that of a second grader. I agree with that but I don't think it's a reason to hold him back a year. His teacher last year never talked about her concern of his academics, never thought he was "behind". I also think it makes a huge difference this year that he is being co-taught. One teacher in the AM and then another in the PM. One teacher may be more strict than the other. Who knows? I am anxious to have this meeting today.