Disability Act Question

[aubriee]

I posted over on the Port Orleans FAQ thread that I was traveling to WDW with my mom in Sept and that she'd be in an ECV. I asked if anyone knew for sure which was PORS first bus stop, so we could ask for a room close to that stop. Someone came back and said that at the moment there did not seem to be a rhyme or reason to the bus stop order, but gave me the 1-407-WDW-RIDE number to find out. The following is a copy of what I posted over there:

Well I just called transportation and was told that the South Depot is "usually" the first stop at PORS, but there are times they do start at the East Depot ("it just depends"), but she couldn't tell me what it depends on ("just several factors"). To make it more confusing she said, sometimes if the previous bus got full at POFQ and the South Depot, then they would send another bus and that bus would start at the West Depot.

I stayed at POFQ in May and several times the driver would stop at a PORS stop, there would be someone in an ECV, and even if the bus wasn't full, they frequently told the person that the bus was too crowded to let them on and another bus would be by soon. Then they'd let other guests at that stop on, leaving the ECV person waiting. I'm not talking about there be other ECVs already on the bus either. I asked her about that and she said it was up to the bus driver to decide. Uh Oh, I think I may be calling later to see about booking us in another resort. I don't like the sound of this at all.

I didn't mention it on the other thread, but I also asked the transportation person about the bus driver allowing people to get on at a stop after telling the ECV person that they couldn't get on. She told me, they could ask people sitting in the wheelchair seats to move, but they could not make them. That I already knew, of course. I then asked her if under the Disability Act wasn't the bus then considered full, if an ECV wasn't allowed on. She got really huffy and said she didn't know where people got stuff like that and that that was totally untrue. There was nothing in the Disability Act like that. Was she right?

When I was there in May, my mom wasn't with me, but I was on several buses where people in an ECV were not allowed on, while others at the stop was. There were no other ECVs on the bus and there were even empty seats. Most of the time the drivers did ask the people in the handicapped area to move and they did, but there were times where the driver did not even ask them and just told the person on the ECV that there was not room for them. Is this the usual practice now?

 

[OneLittleSpark]

Yes, by law if a wheelchair user cannot be loaded on, the bus should be considered full at that stop, and should not board any other passengers. They can, however, go on to pick up people from other stops. This rule isn't normally enforced, from what I've seen, but it is meant to stop bus drivers refusing to load wheelchair passengers, because they don't want to.

I'm very surprised that you saw so many ECV users being refused entry, when they could have boarded, as my experience in my wheelchair has been generally good. I have heard various reports here of uncooperative bus drivers, though, which is very sad to hear. Might I suggest that you take a notebook and pen out with you, when park touring, so you can write down the bus number (on the front and back of the bus), time and location, if you do have any problems. You can then report the incident at Guest Relations, or by phoning the transport number from your hotel phone, so that the issue can be brought up with the driver.

As I said, I've generally had good experiences with Disney transport, but my mother did sometimes have to run up to the front of the bus to tell them I was waiting. My general experience with the world in a wheelchair, is that you often have to be more assertive to get things that those on their feet may take for granted. Just make sure that your mother (or you on her behalf) speaks up and gets herself noticed, and you should be OK.

One last point, if a bus is full to ECVs / wheelchairs, ask the driver to radio in for another bus to be sent. I've only had a driver do this a few times, and have never had to ask them to, but I tend to go when it's quieter. Actually, having looked back at your first post, I tend to go in September, which is when you'll be out there. Hopefully you'll have no problems at all!

 

[bookwormde]

The “full bus” methodology of being compliant with ADA equal access is not specifically written into the law. It is just one or the accommodation that was developed and passed judicial review so it is considered a “safe” accommodation for the provider, there a several others also. Technically from my memory they may not pick up any more passengers at that “venue” or area so if they are making the next stop at the same resort that is questionable.

As always when you you get a CM whose answer does not match your understanding, you should ask for a supervisor, they are usually much more knowledgeable, particularly if the CM develops an “attitude”


bookwormde

 

[SueM in MN]

The ADA actually has very little specific in it.
It's really a framework that says people with disabilities have certain rights, including a right to reasonable accommodation for needs related to disabilities.
It doesn't say anything about what the reasonable accommodations might be. That information is fleshed out in guidelines for different industries/settings.

I don't have time right now to look up the reference (because I lost my link), but access to transportation is not covered by the ADA, it's covered by Transportation law.
The transportation laws are not specifically for accessibility, but accessibility was written into the other transportation laws. It's actually very specific in terms of size of the space they have to provide, etc., how many spaces, stops, etc. That's where the information you are looking for is.
There is a specific one for air travel (Air Carriers Act) that deals with not only accessibility, but many other aspects of air travel.

For the OP, it sounds like you got a secretarial type person. If you have problems again, call that number and ask to talk to a supervisor. There will be someone assigned to be shift supervisor. You want to talk to that person or someone above them.

 

[bookwormde]

If anyone is looking ADA Title II sections 304-307 is the section that covers “privately operated bus and van companies”


bookwormde

 

[dclfun]

I just wanted to say that it's difficult to figure out when is a "slow" time of year anymore and it's impossible to know how many other guests at your resort will be travelling with a w/c or ECV party. While September is value season, it's also FD season. When we stayed at Pop last year in September I waited frequently for a bus as there were often lots of guests in ECV's in front of us waiting already to board. A few times there were three or more ECV's- it was too hot for my SD to sit on the concrete in the sun and wait so we often changed plans and went to whatever park had no other w/c's or ECV's in line. We tried to time our park exits at times other than park closing, after a parade, etc. for the same reason as often the wait was extremely long due to waiting behind so many others. Flexibility is a good thing but difficult for people with ADR's or specific plans that can't be changed.---Kathy

 

[lovetoscrap]

Part of the problem with loading the ECV's when there are people on the bus is that it can be very difficult to manuveur it into place if there are legs and feet in the way. It is a very tight space to be trying to parallel park in and depending on which type of bus it is some are much easier than others.

I know that I don't really even want to try to get on the bus when people are already on. I have enough trouble getting situated in the spot the ECV has to be in, but add in people watching and their knees, ankles and toes as obsticles and I would be saying "I'll wait for the next one!"

Good luck!

 

[OneLittleSpark]

The ADA actually has very little specific in it.
It's really a framework that says people with disabilities have certain rights, including a right to reasonable accommodation for needs related to disabilities.
It doesn't say anything about what the reasonable accommodations might be. That information is fleshed out in guidelines for different industries/settings.

I don't have time right now to look up the reference (because I lost my link), but access to transportation is not covered by the ADA, it's covered by Transportation law.
The transportation laws are not specifically for accessibility, but accessibility was written into the other transportation laws. It's actually very specific in terms of size of the space they have to provide, etc., how many spaces, stops, etc. That's where the information you are looking for is.
There is a specific one for air travel (Air Carriers Act) that deals with not only accessibility, but many other aspects of air travel.

Whoops! Sorry for giving the wrong information there, hope it hasn't caused too much confusion! I guess that's what you get when this silly Brit tries to answer a question on American law!

I just wanted to say that it's difficult to figure out when is a "slow" time of year anymore and it's impossible to know how many other guests at your resort will be travelling with a w/c or ECV party. While September is value season, it's also FD season. When we stayed at Pop last year in September I waited frequently for a bus as there were often lots of guests in ECV's in front of us waiting already to board. A few times there were three or more ECV's- it was too hot for my SD to sit on the concrete in the sun and wait so we often changed plans and went to whatever park had no other w/c's or ECV's in line. We tried to time our park exits at times other than park closing, after a parade, etc. for the same reason as often the wait was extremely long due to waiting behind so many others. Flexibility is a good thing but difficult for people with ADR's or specific plans that can't be changed.---Kathy

Kathy, thank you for that! Looking back, I realise that my post was rather over-simplifying things, and I wouldn't want to misinform anyone. I meant to say that we've generally found it easier when we've been there in September, than in the middle of summer, and that we've been pretty lucky with buses etc. Last September, when we stayed in OKW, the place was lovely and quiet, and we could normally get on either the first or second bus going to the park we wanted. So sorry to hear you and Skye had a rougher time of it, on your trip.

 

[dclfun]

OneLittleSpark- I didn't think your post was oversimplifying things at all. I just know from our experience that there are factors that we can't control such as other guests needing a lift/ramp, broken equipment, the occasional unhelpful bus driver, etc. Reserving a room close to the first bus stop at a resort with multi-stops is really the only thing we can do to help with access and is a good suggestion. From my vast and fortunate experience getting to go to the parks frequently I've seen a huge increase in the use of ECV's in the past year or two. It means to me that many people who never considered a trip to WDW in the past are now able to join their families and also get some "magic" vs. staying at home while everyone else has a WDW vacation. It does mean that there may be a longer wait time for a lift/ramp bus since more guests are needing that accommodation. Being flexible helps such as changing your touring time to coincide with less popular departure times from your resort, waiting around for crowds to clear out after parades/fireworks or leaving before they occur, etc. to get back to your resort. Other than that all we can do is have a "Hakuna Matata" attitude and plan ahead for unexpected circumstances, hoping they don't occur.---Kathy