Dirty Airline Seats

[bavaria]

Ok, I will go where you folks seem to want to go.
First, had a perfect trip, awesome time. I (w/ chronic illness and on immunosuppressive drugs), my small children, and senior parents did not get sick. I guess I did something right by being a clean and responsible person. I am not a germaphobe, just a realist. Thanks to all the people out there who accept responsibility for themselves and the community by simply washing your hands and personal space and staying home when you are sick. It probably took me a minute to displace 7 people to clean. Moms of 3 who are RNs are pretty competent people capable of multitasking. How unfortunate that others are not capable of the same or limited by middle management or out of touch unions. (Btw, child of union member who put roof over my head, meds and food in my mouth, and a union member when I entered the work force.)
So now my kids are back to school and I hope the selfish and dirty people in the world ( you know who you are, why some of you are reading this) don't neglect their children and dump them in school because they couldn't be bothered.
I am very happy that some of you never get sick. I wish I could stay the same, I am proud to say that I have not had an infectious disease in 5 yrs. The last one nearly killed me. Seriously. I wish I could live with the attitude of whatever. But I can't. I have lupus. For 20 years. There is no cure there is no treatment. It is an insidious vicious disease. I am proud to have survived for 20 years. When I was diagnosed I was given 5-10 years life expectancy. I have fought and will continue to fight and live my life protecting myself. I do hope that any of you with a cavaliere attitude never have the misfortune of being diagnosed with a chronic illness nor have the experience of having a 20yo daughter diagnosed.
Just an FYI if anyone wants to judge me, I will give you more ammunition. I packed all my clothes in large ziploc bags to prevent bedbug infestation. My DH was speaking with an exterminator and mentioned that I did that. He said your wife is smart woman.
So please, enjoy your squalor and your ability to be carefree and careless. Anything you say about me or misinterpret about me doesn't mean a thing. I am just happy that you don't invite me to your house if you use dirty utensils, or stop in the middle of cooking to use the toilet and wash your hands.
Those who read me and get me wipe down your airline tray tables. Those who don't enjoy eating off of somebody else's hair. Good bye and Good luck.

Ah, the absolute irony! You have no idea who posters are and what they are dealing with themselves.

But thanks for calling us names like selfish and dirty! I prefer 'sensible' and 'realistic' myself.

I lived inside a bubble for years and it was boring and limiting. I definitely don't live inside a bubble now, and while it may often be difficult and painful and may ultimately shorten my life, I have actually been living a wonderful life. That is my choice, and I am proud that I made that choice.

I don't think that anyone who disagreed with you actually called you names, or belittled you; they simply pointed out why your suggestion isn't feasible, and displayed a differing viewpoint.

I'm sorry that you are ill, but again, you have been using some very harsh words and making a lot of assumptions about people you do not know. Hopefully that is the illness colouring your words; I do know what that can do.

 

[crashbb]

Ah, the absolute irony! You have no idea who posters are and what they are dealing with themselves.

But thanks for calling us names like selfish and dirty! I prefer 'sensible' and 'realistic' myself.

I lived inside a bubble for years and it was boring and limiting. I definitely don't live inside a bubble now, and while it may often be difficult and painful and may ultimately shorten my life, I have actually been living a wonderful life. That is my choice, and I am proud that I made that choice.

I don't think that anyone who disagreed with you actually called you names, or belittled you; they simply pointed out why your suggestion isn't feasible, and displayed a differing viewpoint.

At least she didn't call us smelly.

Actually, maybe she did - I couldn't really be bothered to read the entire rant.

The irony - I have an autoimmune disease as well. Still use the tv clicker at the hotel when I travel (without wearing gloves).

 

[bavaria]

Well, 'poopyhead' would have been more fitting to this thread, don't you think?

And certainly I don't think that the term squalour applies to our situation; last night there was a huge storm which wiped away part of the makeshift homes outside my window. Again I am ashamed to contrast our pettiness and our lack of proportion to what billions of people handle every day in this world. For most of them access to clean water and running toilets isn't any sort of option at all.

We have the ability and the money and the resources to fly. As PrincessKMom's said, if flying is so dangerous to us, then maybe it isn't the right choice. OR as I said earlier, if one chooses to wipe down the seat and tray table, go right ahead. Just don't expect everyone else to be willing to pay that cost involved to 'sanitize' the entire aircraft.

 

[NHdisneylover]

So now my kids are back to school and I hope the selfish and dirty people in the world ( you know who you are, why some of you are reading this) don't neglect their children and dump them in school because they couldn't be bothered.
.

While I freely admit there are parents out there who will take a child they KNOW is ill to school (generally becuase, sadly, they are afraid of losing their job if they stay home with a sick child too often), more often than not kids get sick once they get there (and the germs were already around before any symptoms appeared). Smae happens with air travel; the most contagious people on your flight probably do not feel sick yet.
Had you seen my DD today you probably would have concluded I am a "selfish and dirty" person. Last Monday, on the way to school she came started to feel ill. Took her right home. By midday she was SICK. Had her at the doctor Tuesday. Was told it is (suspected--no test) H1N1, tends to last 3 days, may have a lingering cough for weeks after, send her back to school after she is well (other than cough) for 24 hours. This is the first time in her almost 13 years that DD has had any contagious anything worse than a very minor cold. It too kher 5 days to shake it, but she finally started to get better Friday afternoon. By SAturday all she ahd was tht lingering cough adn a bit of tiredness. By Sunday she was her old self, but with the cough. Yesterday she went to school and was fine. This morning she went to school and called two hours later with all the symptoms (dizzyness, fever, queasiness, sore throat, cough much worse) back. I had to get out of my class and "race" over there as fast as I could on the trains (took about an hour; I had jsut missed a train when I got to the station) and then bring her home (she was too dizzy to try comming home on her own) on the train and two trams. I hate that she may have exposed more people at school (though with as many people as they have out I doubt one more person sharing germs really matters) and I hated to expose everyone on the train and trams too. But I could not predict that she would suddenly relapse 2 hours after school started you know?

 

[NHdisneylover]

Have any of you read The Mysterious Benedict Society? It is one of the better novels to come out for chidlren recently. Part of the story is that the bad guy who wants to take over the world is weakening everyone by sending out messages along the lines of "germs are everywhere. You cannot protect yourself. Therfore you MUST protect yourself." Of course, the brilliant child heroes see this as the absurd statement it is, but it works on most people. I thought sections of that book were a brilliant commnetary on our current societal fear of germs Seems to fit this thread somehow.

 

[jodifla]

Ok, I will go where you folks seem to want to go.
First, had a perfect trip, awesome time. I (w/ chronic illness and on immunosuppressive drugs), my small children, and senior parents did not get sick. I guess I did something right by being a clean and responsible person. I am not a germaphobe, just a realist. Thanks to all the people out there who accept responsibility for themselves and the community by simply washing your hands and personal space and staying home when you are sick. It probably took me a minute to displace 7 people to clean. Moms of 3 who are RNs are pretty competent people capable of multitasking. How unfortunate that others are not capable of the same or limited by middle management or out of touch unions. (Btw, child of union member who put roof over my head, meds and food in my mouth, and a union member when I entered the work force.)
So now my kids are back to school and I hope the selfish and dirty people in the world ( you know who you are, why some of you are reading this) don't neglect their children and dump them in school because they couldn't be bothered.
I am very happy that some of you never get sick. I wish I could stay the same, I am proud to say that I have not had an infectious disease in 5 yrs. The last one nearly killed me. Seriously. I wish I could live with the attitude of whatever. But I can't. I have lupus. For 20 years. There is no cure there is no treatment. It is an insidious vicious disease. I am proud to have survived for 20 years. When I was diagnosed I was given 5-10 years life expectancy. I have fought and will continue to fight and live my life protecting myself. I do hope that any of you with a cavaliere attitude never have the misfortune of being diagnosed with a chronic illness nor have the experience of having a 20yo daughter diagnosed.
Just an FYI if anyone wants to judge me, I will give you more ammunition. I packed all my clothes in large ziploc bags to prevent bedbug infestation. My DH was speaking with an exterminator and mentioned that I did that. He said your wife is smart woman.
So please, enjoy your squalor and your ability to be carefree and careless. Anything you say about me or misinterpret about me doesn't mean a thing. I am just happy that you don't invite me to your house if you use dirty utensils, or stop in the middle of cooking to use the toilet and wash your hands.
Those who read me and get me wipe down your airline tray tables. Those who don't enjoy eating off of somebody else's hair. Good bye and Good luck.

Wow. What an attitude you have.

Certainly, do what you need to do to keep yourself safe and "clean." But don't try to make US responsible for it.

Most of us live fine and dandy in our "squalor" and there's plenty of epidemological research that shows that living with germs makes you stronger and better able to fight off bugs, assuming you are not compromised, as you obviously are.

 

[bavaria]

Can someone please clarify or translate for me? (Perhaps NHDisneylover as you are living in the land of the labour union?)

I used to be a union member; I am not anymore. What does being a union member have to do with my status as filthy or clean?

I'm sooo confused; I'm going to bed now and hopefully someone will have cleared that up for me by the time I awake.

 

[bavaria]

By the way, I hope that PrincessK and Fräulein NHDisneylover are feeling better soon.

 

[kaytieeldr]

It probably took me a minute to displace 7 people to clean.

This timing is disputed in your original post where you say the wipe was black in only three or four swipes of one table. While it may have taken you a minute to clean all seven tables - unlikely - one needs to add in the time required to open each table and replace it, and move from one seat section to the next, and get the armrests, and obtain repeated clean wipes, and discard each as it became dirty...

I do hope that any of you with a cavaliere attitude never have the misfortune of being diagnosed with a chronic illness nor have the experience of having a 20yo daughter diagnosed.

I have a sibling who died of complications from scleroderma - not germs or illnesses, as this person had colds and was exposed to germs over the duration of the diagnosis, but kidney failure because that's one of the organs affected. But no, I don't have a cavalier attitude regarding autoimmune diseases. I do have a much more open-minded attitude about germs and cleanliness. As keishashadow points out, the overuse of antibacterials simply means the bacteria mutate to survive and spread. NORMAL cleanliness makes perfect sense. Expecting airlines to clean tray tables and armrests between flights, not so much.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Can someone please clarify or translate for me? (Perhaps NHDisneylover as you are living in the land of the labour union?)

I used to be a union member; I am not anymore. What does being a union member have to do with my status as filthy or clean?

I'm sooo confused; I'm going to bed now and hopefully someone will have cleared that up for me by the time I awake.

I would be happy to translate if I actually understood it myself

The best I can figure out is: the flight attendants should be able to fully sterlize a plane in 10 minutes (the OP could do so if she did not have to work around the members of her travel party to do so). They choose to be lazy and not do so becuase the union will protect them and they will not be fired for this "clear" refusal to do a good job.

Not sure if the above was the intended meaning, but it is what I can get out of it anyhow.

 

[bavaria]

Thanks! But in America most airlines don't have the cabin crew do the cleaning; there is contract cleaning crew except for airlines like SW.

So I am still confused!

 

[NHdisneylover]

By the way, I hope that PrincessK and Fräulein NHDisneylover are feeling better soon.

Thanks. SHe is a tough kid--she'll manage.

Thanks! But in America most airlines don't have the cabin crew do the cleaning; there is contract cleaning crew except for airlines like SW.

So I am still confused!

OP seems to believe cleaning/sterilizing the aircraft is (or should be) part of the FAs job.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Can someone please clarify or translate for me? (Perhaps NHDisneylover as you are living in the land of the labour union?)

I used to be a union member; I am not anymore. What does being a union member have to do with my status as filthy or clean?

I'm sooo confused; I'm going to bed now and hopefully someone will have cleared that up for me by the time I awake.

You mean this?

How unfortunate that others are not capable of the same or limited by middle management or out of touch unions. (Btw, child of union member who put roof over my head, meds and food in my mouth, and a union member when I entered the work force.)

It appears to me to mean that the OP thinks our arguments against expecting airlines to clean every armrest and every tray table between every flight are based on either decisions by out of touch management or on union rules preventing assigning employee/members from doing menial work. I guess. Sorry for the complicated sentence.

The OP thinks it took her a minute to clean the seating for seven people. This reminds me of the Disney Guest at the end of a bus queue complaining that he'd been waiting there an hour - but oddly enough, the first people in line had been waiting a mere twenty minutes.

We generally tend to badly estimate the time need or taken to do something.

 

[crashbb]

Thanks! But in America most airlines don't have the cabin crew do the cleaning; there is contract cleaning crew except for airlines like SW.

So I am still confused!

That would be because you are assuming that the OP is allowing facts (i.e. the fact that cleaning is done by contractors) to "cloud" her rant.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Thanks! But in America most airlines don't have the cabin crew do the cleaning; there is contract cleaning crew except for airlines like SW.

So I am still confused!

Don't feel confused - you are absolutely correct.

 

[keishashadow]

...Moms of 3 who are RNs are pretty competent people capable of multitasking. How unfortunate that others are not capable of the same or limited by middle management or out of touch unions. (Btw, child of union member who put roof over my head, meds and food in my mouth, and a union member when I entered the work force.)
... I have lupus. For 20 years. There is no cure there is no treatment. It is an insidious vicious disease. I am proud to have survived for 20 years. When I was diagnosed I was given 5-10 years life expectancy. I have fought and will continue to fight and live my life protecting myself. I do hope that any of you with a cavaliere attitude never have the misfortune of being diagnosed with a chronic illness nor have the experience of having a 20yo daughter diagnosed.

Your statement seems to be out of context as to situation of wiping down an airline tray tableakin to biting the hand that fed you when a child and protected your job when you needed it early in your career too.

Chronic diseases are a terrible burden for many. It's a hard decision to make as to determining whether you are healthy enough for travel and all that entails. Thankfully the ADA act sets forth many accommodations.

Can someone please clarify or translate for me? (Perhaps NHDisneylover as you are living in the land of the labour union?)

I used to be a union member; I am not anymore. What does being a union member have to do with my status as filthy or clean?

I'm sooo confused; I'm going to bed now and hopefully someone will have cleared that up for me by the time I awake.

oooh, i have a theory - perhaps US Right to Work states don't offer the same Right to Cleanliness. So many of us union members shamefully still get our hands dirty when we work...we do clean up nice though

 

[NHdisneylover]

Thanks! But in America most airlines don't have the cabin crew do the cleaning; there is contract cleaning crew except for airlines like SW.

So I am still confused!

the problem is you understand the language but not the attitude. I am really pretty much in the same boat as you then

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

4 pages... and all I know for certain is someone's existence was validated because an exterminator, while speaking to a third party, called her smart.



Carry on!

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Thanks Bavaria. PrincessKs' just back from the doctor again. He doesn't know what's the matter with her. Antibiotics didn't work, now we're on to Tamiflu. 8 kids in her class out sick, 4 more went home sick yesterday. Every class the teachers have them wipe down their desks with wipes and use hand disinfectant. I think that's the problem. All that cleaning and still half the class has taken ill. So how is it helping?

Everybody should do what they feel is appropriate for themselves and for their family, but I think it's unfair to ask for anything more than is being done right now. Imagine if I wrote a letter to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey asking them to please make sure each train is cleaned before sending it out in the morning? Or maybe New Jersey Transit wouldn't mind cleaning the buses daily. If it bothers you that much stay home, bring your own food and drinks on the plane or just drive to each destination, but along the way, you'll still be stopped in public restrooms and public restaurants. There is no way to avoid others and their germs.

 

[goofy4tink]

Ok, I will go where you folks seem to want to go.
First, had a perfect trip, awesome time. I (w/ chronic illness and on immunosuppressive drugs), my small children, and senior parents did not get sick. I guess I did something right by being a clean and responsible person. I am not a germaphobe, just a realist. Thanks to all the people out there who accept responsibility for themselves and the community by simply washing your hands and personal space and staying home when you are sick. It probably took me a minute to displace 7 people to clean. Moms of 3 who are RNs are pretty competent people capable of multitasking. How unfortunate that others are not capable of the same or limited by middle management or out of touch unions. (Btw, child of union member who put roof over my head, meds and food in my mouth, and a union member when I entered the work force.)
So now my kids are back to school and I hope the selfish and dirty people in the world ( you know who you are, why some of you are reading this) don't neglect their children and dump them in school because they couldn't be bothered.
I am very happy that some of you never get sick. I wish I could stay the same, I am proud to say that I have not had an infectious disease in 5 yrs. The last one nearly killed me. Seriously. I wish I could live with the attitude of whatever. But I can't. I have lupus. For 20 years. There is no cure there is no treatment. It is an insidious vicious disease. I am proud to have survived for 20 years. When I was diagnosed I was given 5-10 years life expectancy. I have fought and will continue to fight and live my life protecting myself. I do hope that any of you with a cavaliere attitude never have the misfortune of being diagnosed with a chronic illness nor have the experience of having a 20yo daughter diagnosed.
Just an FYI if anyone wants to judge me, I will give you more ammunition. I packed all my clothes in large ziploc bags to prevent bedbug infestation. My DH was speaking with an exterminator and mentioned that I did that. He said your wife is smart woman.
So please, enjoy your squalor and your ability to be carefree and careless. Anything you say about me or misinterpret about me doesn't mean a thing. I am just happy that you don't invite me to your house if you use dirty utensils, or stop in the middle of cooking to use the toilet and wash your hands.
Those who read me and get me wipe down your airline tray tables. Those who don't enjoy eating off of somebody else's hair. Good bye and Good luck.

I'm not a germaphobe, nor am I a slob. My house is clean and well kept..at least I think it is. Nobody seems to get sick after being here. Where in God's name did you see anyone saying they used dirty utensils or prepared foods after using the toilet?? Seems to me you went off on a tangent there. And I, for one, am more than a little bit insulted. Squalor? Because I don't sanitize everything my family touches?? I think not. That may work for you, and most likely does with the illness you have (and I do send along my best wishes for continued good health for you..it is a miserable illness to deal with), the vast majority of people do not need to sanitize everything they come into contact with. In fact, the bottom line is that it can be detrimental to oversanitize!!! Everyone needs some bacteria in their system..we can't be decimating all the little critters. That would be counterproductive.
While I do wipe down the trays and armrests on planes, I'm not overly concerned with germs. I just hate that tacky, sticky feeling. And if I manage to kill off some virus in the process, fine.

While I thank you for your original thoughts as to wiping down trays and such, I can't condone the tangent you have gone on, simply because others don't feel the same compulsion you do. Yes, you do need to clean things better than most others. But, for the general population, a quick swipe on the surface and continued good hand washing will suffice. I tell my dd that all the time...hand sanitizers are all well and good, but nothing beats some hot water and soap...that will be plenty to keep those nasty germs away. Oh, and keep your hands away from your face. We manage to stay pretty healthy...even when flying.