Direct Purchase benefits announced!

[TLSnell1981]

Yes, currently Disneyland trades are not charged the fee.

Thank you! I've never used my points for anyting other than DVC, but this was an exception to my rule. I knew, there was no mention of the booking fee. I just wanted to make sure there were no surprises.

 

[tjkraz]

Disneyland Hotel and Paradise Pier are also not subject to the "Rule of 4" (cannot book AND travel in last four months of Use Year.) However, those are the only two differences I'm aware of. DLH and PP are part of the Disney Collection and will be unavailable to resale buyers after March 20.

These exceptions to the $95 booking fee and "Rule of 4" could change at any time. Some thought the exceptions would be removed as soon as VGC opened but it's been 14+ months now with no word on a change.

 

[Cmbar]

Maybe they'll make it so that you can only use your points in your Use Month. No, wait. They can't do that. Maybe they'll make it so that you can only use your points for 1BR units. No, wait. They can't do that.

And so on.

The point is that the things that they promised not to change, won't change, and we should never have been relying on anything else to not change.

Bicker, what is it exactly they promised NOT to change? Just home resort booking right? Is there something else you are meaning when you say that? My understanding is that we only have rights to a home resort booking ONLY. Everything else... booking window, banking rules, perks, what other resorts are included are all expendable right? There is no guarantee that I will ever be able to stay at Kulani right since I own at BLT. The only guarantee I have is BLT forever. (I sure hope at least that is true).

 

[Dean]

Bicker, what is it exactly they promised NOT to change? Just home resort booking right? Is there something else you are meaning when you say that? My understanding is that we only have rights to a home resort booking ONLY. Everything else... booking window, banking rules, perks, what other resorts are included are all expendable right? There is no guarantee that I will ever be able to stay at Kulani right since I own at BLT. The only guarantee I have is BLT forever. (I sure hope at least that is true).

Technically as long as one's home resort is open and a member of the club, one has certain guaranteed options and protections. Are they absolute, no, of course not. A given resort or part of a resort can close and one could cease to be a member, a resort's management could be sold off and one would no longer be a member of the club or other resorts could exit the club and no longer be accessible through the club. One might say these things could never happen but they could. Marriott has parted ways with 9 different resorts so far if I count correctly and in several of the situations with many saying it'd never happen and they couldn't legally do it for 4 of the resort's, portions of a resort. They did. They even kept part of one resort and parted ways with other portions.

 

[axfather]

this may be an extension of DVC cutting back.,,

 

[Deb & Bill]

... There is no guarantee that I will ever be able to stay at Kulani right since I own at BLT. ...

Aulani or Kidani?

 

[bicker]

Bicker, what is it exactly they promised NOT to change?

The list is too long and detailed to reproduce here. Read the Master Deed and offering specification. One example is that the total number of points for a resort, over a year, cannot change.

Is there something else you are meaning when you say that? My understanding is that we only have rights ...

I think I understand the source of your confusion: You're taking for granted (ignoring) everything that is guaranteed. What you're doing is like going to a cafe every day, buying your favorite muffin and getting a complementary coffee; and then, one day, the coffee isn't complementary anymore, and you fixate on that, instead of realize that you're still getting the muffin.

The only guarantee I have is BLT forever. (I sure hope at least that is true).

No DVC memberships are "forever". You really need to read the documents you signed.

 

[dizfan]

Read the Master Deed and offering specification. One example is that the total number of points for a resort, over a year, cannot change.

The total points for a resort per year have not changed. They redistributed the point requirements. Increasing weekday point requirements and decreasing weekend point requirements.

If memory serves me correctly, the POS even states the maximum they can increase/decrease point requirements in a single year (for a given room).

It doesn't mean we have to like it, but it is something that is written into the contract.

 

[bicker]

One example is that the total number of points for a resort, over a year, cannot change.

The total points for a resort per year have not changed.

Uh, if, as I said, they "cannot change" then it should not be surprising that they "have no changed".

Perhaps you meant to direct your reply at some other message? ... or perhaps you were just agreeing with me.

It doesn't mean we have to like it, but it is something that is written into the contract.

Ayup.

 

[Dean]

If memory serves me correctly, the POS even states the maximum they can increase/decrease point requirements in a single year (for a given room).

It's 20% in a given year but I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to sub categories like components of a lockoff. And of course they've already demonstrated the realities of that protection.

It doesn't mean we have to like it, but it is something that is written into the contract.

Given that they have a responsibility to adjust related to demand, there would be no appropriate reason to be overly upset about such a reallocation. I can see being disappointed if one is directly affected but that's about it.

 

[famgel]

Dear JimMea, not sure if this question was answered but here it goes "what happens with discounted cash ressies. "Will DVC members who DO NOT GO directly thru Disney for their membership be able to get discounted rates, for villas, cruise, adventure, etc.?"

 

[RobDoc]

Dear JimMea, not sure if this question was answered but here it goes "what happens with discounted cash ressies. "Will DVC members who DO NOT GO directly thru Disney for their membership be able to get discounted rates, for villas, cruise, adventure, etc.?"

At this time, all DVC members are eligible for any available discounts at DVC resorts (including resale purchasers). The DVC discount is 25% off rack rates at DVC resorts, based on availability.

There are currently no DVC discounts for cruise or ABD reservations (and those are two of the programs - in addition to the Concierge Collection - that are NOT available to resale purchases after March 20, 2011 for DVC point reservations).

 

[famgel]

OK so there wasn't any DVC discount to begin with for Cruises, ABD and Concierge programs. So there is no change to DVC villa discount at all, whether you go direct or any secondary market.

 

[JimMIA]

OK so there wasn't any DVC discount to begin with for Cruises, ABD and Concierge programs. So there is no change to DVC villa discount at all, whether you go direct or any secondary market.

HOWEVER...that could change.

If there is one takeaway everyone should get from all this, it is that we all need to know the difference between what is guaranteed (very, very little) and what is not (virtually everything).

One of the other things supposedly in the works is an "owner loyalty program." Most think this will be for owners of large numbers of points, along the lines of what other timeshare systems have done.

IF that loyalty program is implemented "in response to member feedback to enhance the ownership experience," you could see cruise discounts, restriction of member discounts on DVC villas to "loyal" members only, booking/banking/borrowing advantages...lots of things. (If you want to speculate, go with things that cost DVC zero, rather than things which cost them money, like cruise discounts.)

When we spend $20,000 or so for a DVC contract, we REALLY need to know what we are buying and what we are not. That's nobody's responsibility but ours.

A lot of the complaints we're seeing on this issue are just like the great American philosopher Pogo used to say: "We have met the enemy, and he is US!"

 

[cseca]

...
IF that loyalty program is implemented "in response to member feedback to enhance the ownership experience," you could see cruise discounts, restriction of member discounts on DVC villas to "loyal" members only, booking/banking/borrowing advantages...lots of things. (If you want to speculate, go with things that cost DVC zero, rather than things which cost them money, like cruise discounts.)
...[/I]

This comment reminded me about the incentive we heard on the Dream MV cruise.

Those poor DVC CMs trying SO SO SO hard to make it sound like 30 free FPs per trip for 3 years (I think 3 years) is costing HUGE money on their side. And that they worked hard for that approval.

The funny part was that when they said "We called as many DVC members as we can that are cruising, to ask them what kind of incentive they would like to see offered on this cruise. The first thing everyone said was $, you know what the second one was?"

And people started saying
"Free Passes!"
they said "Nope"
"Additional discounts on passes"
they said "Not that"
"Additional gift card incentives!"
"Free cruise"
they said "Not that either, I haven't heard it from this crowd just yet"

and I started thinking ... are you sure you asked us people? Seems like your sampling is rather off.
Cause those would be the incentives I thought off too.

But then they said "Free Fast Passes!" I couldn't stop laughing...
Of course they picked the free incentive... it was still hilarious the way they tried to make it sound like it was hardship for them to approve tho.

Anyways, sorry for the OT. But it just reminded me of that "show".

 

[tjkraz]

This comment reminded me about the incentive we heard on the Dream MV cruise.

Those poor DVC CMs trying SO SO SO hard to make it sound like 30 free FPs per trip for 3 years (I think 3 years) is costing HUGE money on their side. And that they worked hard for that approval.

<snip>

But then they said "Free Fast Passes!" I couldn't stop laughing...
Of course they picked the free incentive... it was still hilarious the way they tried to make it sound like it was hardship for them to approve tho.

The Parks & Resorts division keeps a tight reign on distribution of the instant FastPasses because of the dramatic impact they can have on the tens-of-thousands of guests who visit the parks every single day. There absolutely are limits to the number that DVC can issue and there is a cost attached to every single one given out.

The FastPasses may ultimately be something that costs The Walt Disney Company nothing to provide, but there is a cost to Disney Vacation Development. Same is true of the annual pass discount.

 

[cseca]

The Parks & Resorts division keeps a tight reign on distribution of the instant FastPasses because of the dramatic impact they can have on the tens-of-thousands of guests who visit the parks every single day. There absolutely are limits to the number that DVC can issue and there is a cost attached to every single one given out.

The FastPasses may ultimately be something that costs The Walt Disney Company nothing to provide, but there is a cost to Disney Vacation Development. Same is true of the annual pass discount.

Just curious,
You really think the cost is the same or even close to giving more discounts on other passes or giving free passes?

I'm sure there is some cost but I think it might be more logistical/administrative instead of the obvious $100/AP discount or dining discounts.

I'm really curious tho, how much do you think it costs DVC to give out 1 FP?
I never really thought about it (since we never got any from DVC) until recently.

 

[carlbarry]

Can the number given out by DVC really have an impact? How many per day can they possibly give out? 100? 200? Spread over 4 parks? I received 3 cards in December, and didn't use any, as there were no waits in the parks.

 

[tjkraz]

Just curious,
You really think the cost is the same or even close to giving more discounts on other passes or giving free passes?

I'm sure there is some cost but I think it might be more logistical/administrative instead of the obvious $100/AP discount or dining discounts.

I'm really curious tho, how much do you think it costs DVC to give out 1 FP?
I never really thought about it (since we never got any from DVC) until recently.

I really don't know Disney values the FastPasses but DVC does pay for the right to issue them. The interesting thing about the immediate FastPasses is that they are not something that you can purchase. Universal sells their Front of the Line passes so you can easily attach a dollar amount to them. These FastPasses are rather difficult to come buy--you can't just open your wallet and acquire the privilege.

Going back to your other post, I've never heard of any member perk telephone surveys so I'd certainly take those comments with a grain of salt. However DVC has done several web / email surveys in the last year or so and if the immediate FastPasses were among the options, I tend to think they were very highly regarded by members.

Can the number given out by DVC really have an impact? How many per day can they possibly give out? 100? 200? Spread over 4 parks? I received 3 cards in December, and didn't use any, as there were no waits in the parks.

That's exactly why they are controlled.

It's been suggested over the years that DVC should offer these FastPasses as perks to members during their stays. The logic is typically along the lines of "it wouldn't cost Disney anything."

But consider how many DVC members are staying on property at any given time. There are over 3000 DVC guest rooms at Walt Disney World now, most with an occupancy of 9 or more (I counted the lockoffs as a 2B.) That's 25,000+ DVC members, friends and family on property at any given time. Give them each an immediate FastPass to use per day and it could easily have a dramatic impact on wait times for rides like Soarin, Toy Story Mania or Rock N Rollercoaster.

In small, controlled doses, the FPs don't have much impact. But that's exactly why Disney goes out of its way to monitor and control their issuance. The parks aren't going to be slaves to DVC point sales when they have millions of guests to satisfy every year.

 

[MeTink]

I've been an owner for several years and am not sure what the impact on me is.