Did your relationship negatively change with your college son?

[robinb]

You are twisting my use of a slang term but that's okay.

OP SAID:

"We are paying for his tuition so he is stuck with us for now but I really don't feel like he appreciates it or us."

I read this and her later post that the parents are paying tuition, room, board, books, fees, health insurance, car insurance, phone bill .............. and their son is living with them but not interacting with them. She feels underappreciated.

We pay for our kids through their entire lives and we hope that by time they are an adult and going to college where they can see just how much additional we are paying for them .... there would be some appreciation and at very least be part of our family when you live with us.

At no point did she or any one say she was trying to control him. She just wants him part of the family, be part of their lives. She shouldn't have to feel hurt, and I'm not going to invalidate her experience because of my experience.

Everyone handles their college kids experience differently. I have two that graduated undergrad debt free and both have their masters degrees as well. In high school we sat with them and planned, agreed to who was paying for what and it was successful.

I never said that she was trying to control him with money, which was why I said "the general you", and not the OP or you (HopperFan) specifically. Sadly, many people who do pay for their child's college expenses hold that over their heads to get compliance in one way or another. "C's get degrees" but many people demand grade reports and refuse to pay for average grades. It doesn't stop with grades either. I have a friend who refused to pay for her senior in college DD's apartment unless she visited and approved the apartment herself. The mom literally nixed apartment complexes ("I'm not paying for you to live there!") because she didn't like them! The DD21 is now living in a fancy-schmancy complex full of young professionals instead of college students because that's the only place the mom approved of. My DD21 lived in a dump that put the "S" in "Student Housing" that she found and signed the lease on her own. Frankly, I think she learned a lot more living in a dump and knowing that she'll never want to live in a dump again than my friend's DD who is living in relative luxury selected by her mom.

I agree that the OP feels underappreciated and I am sympathetic because I too felt that my DD was pushed me away in college. It's natural to think that "I pay for everything" and have expectations, but it's foolish to put too much emphasis on the money as it appears you do by your questions and follow-up. The OP did mention it, but it seemed to me that her main concern is that her son is not participating in family life as much as he did before he went away to college.

 

[SteveH]

I'm going to say it's pretty normal.

Our oldest is now 26 and married. College he disconnected some, then we reconnected in Grad School. Then COVID hit and he moved back home to finish school and his fiancee moved in with us. It was until he got married last October that I felt like he was trying to put into the relationship again. Makes me happy when he actually will listen to some "dad advice" and not just scoff.

Unlike our oldest our youngest son, now 23, has struggled with school. Enough we had to pull him from and bring him home, and help him get back on track. He's slowing coming around, but still distant. He's made some very poor choices financially (and on our dime) and he knows the gravy train is over. Even our oldest is helping to keep him focused on school and not his social side.

My dad and I had issues too, I moved back with him during my grad school time frame to try to repair that relationship. Sadly my dad never accepted my career choice, and that was what kept us apart. So I am not shocked at all going through things we are going through with our boys, I stay by my first sentence. Give it time, and by time it may take a few years.

 

[lifesavacation]

I've had three sons graduate from college. I only felt distanced from one of them. He got a girlfriend and spent a lot of time with her family and it almost felt like it was a competition between families and we were the designated "loser." She has more family at gatherings, she has bigger holidays, etc. Anyways......I do think a parent/child relationship changes once they get to college. They are becoming independent, and isn't that what we really want? My advice is to back off as much as you can so you aren't putting pressure on him, and see his independence as a step in the right direction. He'll be off on his own soon and that's a good thing.

 

[Praying Colonel]

I enjoyed my independence when I got to college and the summer after my freshman year was an adjustment for everyone. I wanted to do more things on my own and I was gone a lot--working a couple of part-time jobs, hanging out with friends, etc. I wasn't as available as I had been or could have been, and my mother took it a little hard. I saw that and tried to spend more time with her and my father when I was home. I think she appreciated that even though I wasn't around as much as she would've liked.

 

[Cheburashka]

Can anyone else relate?

There's something wrong if he really doesn't want to talk to you. I went through a long period of time when I was like that to my mother when I was younger, and it was due to a serious issue, not just a passing phase. Independence is different from alienation. Since your son is almost completely financially reliant on you, he is not independent at all. Instead it sounds like he has become somewhat alienated from you, as he never wants to have even a passing conversation with you.

It's hard to give specific advice on how to handle this as we don't know you or your son, or really understand your past relationship or what is going on with him at school. In your shoes I would probably have a few sessions with a family psychologist (without your son), and discuss your perspective of your past and current relationship in detail. The psychologist will probably be able to pinpoint some things that were or are off in the relationship, or if your son sounds depressed, or if you're actually smothering him & he's just reacting to that, etc., and give suggestions for improvement and potentially effective ways to reach out.

I do recommend a real professional psychologist, not just talking with your friends & family or people on Disboards. Individuals tend to see things through the lens of their own life, whereas an experienced professional will have worked with many families and will have a broader view of the situation. I also recommend listening to your instincts on this, and not to the words of those who have not experienced something similar, yet still insist, "it's probably just a phase".

 

[Cheburashka]

Sadly, many people who do pay for their child's college expenses hold that over their heads to get compliance in one way or another. "C's get degrees" but many people demand grade reports and refuse to pay for average grades. It doesn't stop with grades either. I have a friend who refused to pay for her senior in college DD's apartment unless she visited and approved the apartment herself. The mom literally nixed apartment complexes ("I'm not paying for you to live there!") because she didn't like them!

It's actually a pretty good real-world lesson to teach your child: the person who is paying gets to make the decisions. That is real life in a nutshell. If the child doesn't like that, then the child needs to do what it takes to get a good enough job to become financially independent and therefore have total control over his or her life.

I especially can't blame a parent for insisting that their able college student get above C grades if the parent is footing the bill. C's might get you a bachelor's degree, but they won't likely get you into graduate school, and if you're taking the education route toward a well-paying job, you frequently need at least a master's degree in a specialized area to enter a profession that will provide a middle class lifestyle. That insistent parent is simply looking after the child's best future interests.

 

[robinb]

It's actually a pretty good real-world lesson to teach your child: the person who is paying gets to make the decisions. That is real life in a nutshell. If the child doesn't like that, then the child needs to do what it takes to get a good enough job to become financially independent and therefore have total control over his or her life.

LOL, that is no life lesson. It's the exact opposite. It infantilizes the adult student and keeps them reliant on their parents. When are they going to ever grow up if their mom orchestrates everything?

 

[NotUrsula]

Not to advocate real snooping, but what can you hear from outside his door? Is he interacting with friends? It is *possible* that he's depressed, but it's more likely that he's just being a 19 yo male... Catching up on sleep post-finals, bingeing online games, etc. Is he eating? (IME, the red flag for depression in young men is altered eating habits.) I doubt that the whole Greek thing has anything to do with it, UNLESS he is one of the less-privileged people in his chapter, in which case he may be a bit down about all the summer opportunities his wealthier "brothers" have right now that he does not.

There is one thing you definitely have to realize, especially if you recognize that you used to hover way too closely: you cannot go back to the way things were before he moved away from home. That ship has sailed way over the horizon, and there will be a new normal from here on out. A big aspect of what that new normal will look like depends on how you handle this summer.

So, what does your spouse say? Is there worry there as well, or are you the only one feeling anxious about this? If it is one-sided, I'd say that's an indication that this is much more about you than your DS.

 

[Cheburashka]

LOL, that is no life lesson. It's the exact opposite. It infantilizes the adult student and keeps them reliant on their parents. When are they going to ever grow up if their mom orchestrates everything?

There's nothing infantilizing about telling the child, "Since you don't like it, it's time for you to get a job and pay for it yourself." Infantilizing is paying for almost everything for the child, while also providing that child the illusion that even though they aren't self-sufficient, they still get to make all the decisions. That provides no motivation for the child to become genuinely, financially independent. It's the kind of indulgence that leads some young people to live at home until their late 20's or early 30's. Nothing grown up or independent about that.

 

[GAN]

He sounds a lot like me... lol. I was never home -even as a young kid. School, drop the books off, go out and run around with my friends till dinner -repeat. I was independent and still am -not that I didn't want to hang with my family(well there were times). I knew they were there if I needed them ...that's the most important thing.

 

[billlaurie]

My son just finished his freshman year and is actually more communicative and seems to enjoy spending more time with us. He spends less time holed away in his room compared to his HS years. But my older son, he only eats with us occasionally and would prefer to do his own thing.

 

[NotUrsula]

It's actually a pretty good real-world lesson to teach your child: the person who is paying gets to make the decisions. That is real life in a nutshell. If the child doesn't like that, then the child needs to do what it takes to get a good enough job to become financially independent and therefore have total control over his or her life.

I especially can't blame a parent for insisting that their able college student get above C grades if the parent is footing the bill. C's might get you a bachelor's degree, but they won't likely get you into graduate school, and if you're taking the education route toward a well-paying job, you frequently need at least a master's degree in a specialized area to enter a profession that will provide a middle class lifestyle. That insistent parent is simply looking after the child's best future interests.

I'd say that an understanding of the power of money is certainly important, but I think there is a middle ground, and by the time a young adult has moved away from home for a time, there should be more of a lean toward, "This is how much money we are willing to front you, let's hear your plan for how you are going to make ends meet." I am a frugal person by nature, and it has always really given me pain to watch my kids spend money on things I consider poor value, but my DH, who has a cooler head about money matters, has impressed upon me that in the normal world, people do waste money sometimes, and what counts is that they learn from that experience.
The lesson, I think, is that there are times when money will limit your choices, and it is important to understand and accept that. I don't see it as an all-or-nothing experience, though; I think that's pretty arbitrary. In the real world, it's very seldom a choice between a blank check and nothing at all. In the real world, you can choose a less-profitable path and still be perfectly fine as long as you are willing to accept the financial limitations that come along with it.

 

[Karin1984]

I had less contact with my parents when I was in college. I'll be honest, yes, it can be that it has to do with your parenting style. But not necessarily. In college your life is 180 degrees different. You have to reinvent yourself and the place your parents get in your new life, and that takes time.

I would say don't push your child, don't go into helicopter mode. Because how you write, makes me think it is possible it will backfire.
Keep conversations open and friendly. Whatever you do, do not use the money to blackmail your son into having contact with you. You don't want your son to go all Prince Harry on you.
This also goes for emotional blackmail. That is never going to improve the relationship.

Give it time.

 

[Cheburashka]

The lesson, I think, is that there are times when money will limit your choices, and it is important to understand and accept that. I don't see it as an all-or-nothing experience, though

I agree. I was responding to a poster who thought it was wrong for a parent paying for a child's college education to expect higher than C grades, or to want final approval on which apartment the child picked out (that the parent was paying for). That's an all-or-nothing attitude of its own that I challenged.

A good middle ground is for the parent to say, "You choose your major, and as long as you continue directly toward a degree and make a 3.0 average or higher, we won't hassle you about your choices at college, even if you choose to change majors partway though." A control freak would say, "I'm paying, so I'm choosing your major, and I expect straight A's or else." An over-indulgent parent would say, "It's your life, so even though I'm bearing the financial burden of your education and housing, you can take whatever classes you want for as long as you want with whatever kinds of grades you happen to be motivated to make."

The same kind of logic applies to apartment choice. I agree that the middle ground is best, which includes awareness of the fact that a child being fully supported by parents is not yet independent, and therefore parents do have some oversight over his or her major life decisions.

 

[robinb]

I agree. I was responding to a poster who thought it was wrong for a parent paying for a child's college education to expect higher than C grades, or to want final approval on which apartment the child picked out (that the parent was paying for). That's an all-or-nothing attitude of its own that I challenged.

A good middle ground is for the parent to say, "You choose your major, and as long as you continue directly toward a degree and make a 3.0 average or higher, we won't hassle you about your choices at college, even if you choose to change majors partway though." A control freak would say, "I'm paying, so I'm choosing your major, and I expect straight A's or else." An over-indulgent parent would say, "It's your life, so even though I'm bearing the financial burden of your education and housing, you can take whatever classes you want for as long as you want with whatever kinds of grades you happen to be motivated to make."

The same kind of logic applies to apartment choice. I agree that the middle ground is best, which includes awareness of the fact that a child being fully supported by parents is not yet independent, and therefore parents do have some oversight over his or her major life decisions.

But in those cases it is "all or nothing". Get the grades I demand from you, or you're done. Live in an apartment I pick for you, or you're back in the dorms as a senior. Choose a major that I approve of, or I'm not paying. Using money as a hammer to get your own way over your young adult student is wrong and is being a control freak.

College is a time of transition from being reliant on your parents' choices to being independent. I think it's OK to allow young college adults the freedom to fail and flounder a bit while they still have a safety net. My daughter had a GPA less than 3.0, changed her major and lived in a dump. We supported her though all of that, emotionally and financially, instead of withdrawing our support because she wasn't doing exactly what we wanted her to do. We communicated with her instead of giving ultimatums. We had some concerns about the GPA and how it would effect her later in grad school. We talked to her about our concerns and she realized that her GPA wasn't good enough. School was her deal and her GPA sub-3.0 would get her a job, but it wasn't going to cut it for what she wanted to do with her life. She buckled down and made changes to increase it by nearly a full point by the time she graduated and was on the Dean's List at her university for her last 3 years. Her original major wasn't for her so she changed to a major that turned out to be perfect for her. The apartment was crappy, but she learned from that too and she'll choose more carefully so she won't live in a place like that again. All are life lessons that she learned herself and not from me dictating to her just because I'm paying. Now, of course we would not continue to pay if she had struggled too much and failed classes. In that case, we would have insisted on a gap year or two and reset until she was mature enough to take things seriously.

Edited, this is off-topic from the OP's question so I'll stop here. I'll be happy to continue to discuss this with you if you want to open a new thread .

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The helicopter parenting may have made him feel like once he got away from that he enjoyed having that space, having that lack of hovering and he does not want to let it go now that he's had that. You didn't say but it's possible even as you are working on backing off that sometimes you say or do something OR just that he fears it will happen and prefers to just keep his distance. Please don't take that to mean I'm criticizing your parenting just trying to see it from his point of view. Sometimes holding too tight means you escape at the first opportunity and that shouldn't necessarily be seen as you were wrong he was right just different personalities at play.

Him joining a frat may have given him that brotherhood and closeness without the hovering he may have felt.

Being back at home can be very awkward. My mom didn't pay for a dime for my college and it was still awkward for me to be home and my mom didn't always make it easy. I grew up with a lot of independence but suddenly she was trying to flip the script on me. Took a bit for her to understand how I felt when she tried to close the walls in.

I think the lunch is a great idea, it gives you a chance just to have 1 on 1 time and hopefully no pressure. You don't want him to feel like you're grilling him but you want to show him you're there if he needs you. Then depending on what he says your option may be to just let him be for a while.

It's entirely possible the helicopter parenting doesn't have much to do with it or joining the frat either but you called attention to those so I was speaking to them. The pandemic may have added a layer that no one could have anticipated.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There's something wrong if he really doesn't want to talk to you. I went through a long period of time when I was like that to my mother when I was younger, and it was due to a serious issue, not just a passing phase. Independence is different from alienation. Since your son is almost completely financially reliant on you, he is not independent at all. Instead it sounds like he has become somewhat alienated from you, as he never wants to have even a passing conversation with you.

It's hard to give specific advice on how to handle this as we don't know you or your son, or really understand your past relationship or what is going on with him at school. In your shoes I would probably have a few sessions with a family psychologist (without your son), and discuss your perspective of your past and current relationship in detail. The psychologist will probably be able to pinpoint some things that were or are off in the relationship, or if your son sounds depressed, or if you're actually smothering him & he's just reacting to that, etc., and give suggestions for improvement and potentially effective ways to reach out.

I do recommend a real professional psychologist, not just talking with your friends & family or people on Disboards. Individuals tend to see things through the lens of their own life, whereas an experienced professional will have worked with many families and will have a broader view of the situation. I also recommend listening to your instincts on this, and not to the words of those who have not experienced something similar, yet still insist, "it's probably just a phase".

I'd try conversation first before going the counseling route and normally I'm a big proponent of counseling. If the OP seeks counseling now, before trying a more one on one talk with her son, it should be for her own betterment not to try and fix her son or try and figure out what's going on with her son. We're only hearing things from the OP's perspective. To you it may sound alienating because of how it was described because the OP may feel like her son used to talk and now he doesn't, to others it may sound just like normal with going off to college and the type of parenting perhaps playing a role.

And with all due respect while you're 100% right that we tend to see things through our own lens that's what it sounds like you're doing here as well as you disclosed for you it was not due to a phase but a serious issue.

 

[loves to dive]

I was a single mom most of my son's life, my hubby and I got together when my son was about 14 or so. It was just he and I so we are very close, he openly admits he is a Mama's boy. Our relationship pretty much stayed the same through college but he didn't live at home so that was a little different, but did live in the same town. He is 40 now with a brand new baby which has kind of distanced us some, understandably since his focus is on her (she was a month early). We still talk as much as we did and he tells me pretty much everything about his life.

 

[disykat]

I think it's very natural to feel less close as the kids spend less and less time at "home." It's part of the growing up (and apart) process. It's been 4 years since my youngest graduated from college and I still really miss the days when we were more involved in their day to day lives! My DH's extended family has some boundary issues and we've seen first hand what happens when the kids don't gain their independence so that makes it easier to let go.

I felt like we did a pretty reasonable job with our kids, though it was hard to let go at times. We tried to keep our communication mostly about life and save logistics for a once a term "business meeting" where we took care of the finances. They let us know how they were progressing toward their degree (classes, major requirements, grades, etc.) and what everything cost and we figured out the finances. Of course, we heard about and dealt with stuff in between at times, but we really tried to keep the parental business stuff somewhat separate from the relationship we were building with them as adults. I honestly think they looked forward to the business meetings, and they never had to worry that we'd pull out the 3rd degree in between. Our kids lived away from home, so we didn't have to deal with "roommate business," but I think it would be important to set some expectations about that as well and have a periodic time to address how things are going. (Our kids grew up knowing that DH and I have periodic "state of the union" addressing dates, so they weren't surprised we expected to have those types of meetings with them.) If he lives in your home, he really doesn't get to be non-communicative with you!

 

[lukenick1]

Not to advocate real snooping, but what can you hear from outside his door? Is he interacting with friends? It is *possible* that he's depressed, but it's more likely that he's just being a 19 yo male... Catching up on sleep post-finals, bingeing online games, etc. Is he eating? (IME, the red flag for depression in young men is altered eating habits.) I doubt that the whole Greek thing has anything to do with it, UNLESS he is one of the less-privileged people in his chapter, in which case he may be a bit down about all the summer opportunities his wealthier "brothers" have right now that he does not.

There is one thing you definitely have to realize, especially if you recognize that you used to hover way too closely: you cannot go back to the way things were before he moved away from home. That ship has sailed way over the horizon, and there will be a new normal from here on out. A big aspect of what that new normal will look like depends on how you handle this summer.

So, what does your spouse say? Is there worry there as well, or are you the only one feeling anxious about this? If it is one-sided, I'd say that's an indication that this is much more about you than your DS.

Yes he is very interactive with his friends and honestly I think he just doesnt like us. We are very different personality than him. He is sensitive and reserved, we are sarcastic and outspoken. He goes to a very prestigious university (on scholarship) and I do think he can't keep up with the Joneses' financially and maybe he resents us for that? Gosh I hope not....... I am having a pity party and appreciate all the advice given here.