Did Southwest experience excessive delays like JetBlue last week?

[bavaria]

I don't believe that I ever said that SW is 'not a real airline' but their business model differs from legacy carriers, and that makes it more difficult for them to recover at times. Factor in the lower cancellation and overbooking rates for SW, and it can be difficult to standby for a flight.

I suspect that the OP's colleague decided not to go with the standby option (either due to lack of knowledge on her part, or lack of desire to go the airport daily and standby) If she didn't have a burning need to get home, I can see where taking the confirmed seat was an option for her even if it was days later.

 

[NotUrsula]

I think another reason why there wasn't much attention paid to this is that the expectations regarding Southwest service are lower to start with, as prompted by the fact they don't provide seat assignments, etc.

Any serious journalist who has "lower expectations regarding Southwest" is an idiot. SWA now carries more passengers domestically than any other airline in the U.S. It wasn't a big story because there was no story -- SWA didn't screw up and strand passengers on runways for hours on end.

 

[bg4]

SWA didn't screw up and strand passengers on runways for hours on end.

Apparently they just left them in airports - hmmm guess thats better.

No question - JetBlue screwed up big time and has a public relations nightmare but if it hadnt happened in New York at one of the busiest airports in the US would anyone have cared? Thats the point. Southwest flew (pun intended) under the radar (another pun - wow).

to OP - who cares if she took vacation days because she was stranded or just wanted to screw with you. Get over it.

 

[bavaria]

what say all of you? i don't care that she took an extra week but i HATE being lied to!

Wasn't Monday a holiday in the US? So really she missed 3 days of work, if she doesn't work weekends, right?

(I'm not supporting either 'side', in fact I once had to give an employee of mine a written warning for missing a day of work without calling in, due to flight cancellations) I just wanted to point out that she may only have missed 3 work days, and not almost a week.

 

[NotUrsula]

Apparently they just left them in airports - hmmm guess thats better.

ALL airlines, no matter how well-run, will have to cancel flights when airports close due to weather. You can't put them up in the air just to run out of fuel. When in doubt it is better to cancel or reschedule the flight up-front rather than waffle around and drive passengers insane with uncertainty and misinformation. You can choose to leave an airport terminal at any time under your own power, so yes, it is better.

When weather closures happen there will be some passengers whose flights will be canceled -- just no way around it. When it happens on a heavy travel holiday with every seat on every plane sold out well in advance, it will take some time to accomodate those people on other flights. Interline agreements are lovely, yes, but they really don't help when the problem is weather, because every airline is affected, and none of them are likely to have spare seats to trade. SWA can usually catch up pretty fast, as they fly point to point rather than through a hub system, and can take advantage of oddball routing to get passengers moving again.

 

[bicker]

SWA now carries more passengers domestically than any other airline in the U.S.

Best Buy serves far more customers than Cruchfield. However, bigger is not necessarily better.

 

[bicker]

ALL airlines, no matter how well-run, will have to cancel flights when airports close due to weather. You can't put them up in the air just to run out of fuel.

I think the point is that you could, if you wanted to, put them up in hotels while you work through the backlog caused by your flight cancellations. That is what a lot of folks have been claiming JetBlue should have done; if JetBlue should have, then Southwest should have.

 

[Lewisc]

Some people claim that.

Others of us think Jet Blue should be taking responsibility (financially) with respect to passengers that were on flights that were canceled after the storm. Feb 15 or Feb 16 if you want to be generous.

I think the point is that you could, if you wanted to, put them up in hotels while you work through the backlog caused by your flight cancellations. That is what a lot of folks have been claiming JetBlue should have done; if JetBlue should have, then Southwest should have.

 

[bicker]

My cancelled flight was on 2/16. It's arbitrary though: The problems on 2/16 were caused by trying to help the folks traveling on 2/14 and 2/15. Why would I be more important than the folks flying the day before me?

 

[NotUrsula]

Putting them up in hotels while delays were worked through would be proper in a situation where the delay was caused by something under the airline's control, as in the later cancellations by JB. (Not the first day -- that was weather.)

Paying for hotel rooms has never been the standard in cases of force majeure cancellations, and I don't really think that it should be the standard. No airline controls the weather, and they are just as stuck as you are when the airport is forced to close. It's generous when it is done, and very wise from a PR standpoint, but I don't think it should be required.

As to bigger not necessarily being better -- true, not always. I happen to believe that in terms of domestic coach service, SWA's service *is* better than that of most of the legacy carriers, and a lot of industry surveys agree with me. However, whether it is better or not isn't really germane to the issue of whether journalists would not think that the airline is newsworthy -- it *is* the nation's largest domestic carrier, therefore any pattern of unusual delay would attract attention simply because of the number of passengers who would be directly affected. In this case of this particular storm, SWA's delays were not unusual under the circumstances.

As to passengers from one day's cancellations being "more important" than those scheduled to fly on another day: the difference is in the reason for the cancellation. If flights on both days were cancelled because the origination or destination airport was closed THAT DAY, then the airline owes no compensation. If the airline failed to operate scheduled flights on a day when those airports were open for business and other airline's flights were getting out/in, then they do owe compensation for flights scheduled that day.

Sometimes people argue that a first-come/first-served system should be in place for moving passengers whose flights are cancelled due to force majeure, but I disagree; the ripple effect of doing that would anger a whole lot more people who would have otherwise have been perfectly happy. You are not going to help matters by making MORE people late and ticked off.

 

[bicker]

Paying for hotel rooms has never been the standard in cases of force majeure cancellations, and I don't really think that it should be the standard.

Paying for hotel rooms has never been the standard in any case, whatsoever, except when a passenger is stranded at a connection point. Airlines don't pay for hotel rooms if you're stranded at your home airport or the airport of your "destination". That's the standard.

 

[Tammy32]

I think another reason why there wasn't much attention paid to this is that the expectations regarding Southwest service are lower to start with, as prompted by the fact they don't provide seat assignments, etc.

I think you need to do some research into Southwest Airlines. Their service is regarded by many as the best in the airline industry. Many business study SWA customer service and company culture so they can improve their own company. So, how can you say the expectations are low when so many companies study Southwest? They must be doing something right.

The reason you didn't hear about SWA delays during that storm was because they cancelled flights ahead of time, like other airlines, so they wouldn't have people stuck on runways like Jet Blue. Every airline had cancelled flights during that storm. Jet Blue was thinking about pofit and not about the people on those planes....so they kept trying to fly.

 

[bicker]

I think you need to do some research into Southwest Airlines.

Don't make the mistake of confusing my disagreement with lack of knowledge. I know all about Southwest Airlines and its service/business model. I simply hold a different perspective from you.

Their service is regarded by many as the best in the airline industry.

No, their service is regarded by many as being closest to what they expect. There's a big difference. Southwest sets its service expectations very low: No seat assignments, cattle-call boarding procedures, etc. They achieve those objectives very consistently.

Many business study SWA customer service and company culture so they can improve their own company. So, how can you say the expectations are low when so many companies study Southwest? They must be doing something right.

They're very effectively managing expectations. They're successful in the same way that Woolworth was successful for many years. Of course, if you wanted better service you'd go elsewhere, but for what Woolworth proported to offer, they provided it very consistently, and at a very low price.

 

[Lewisc]

SW still permits 3 checked bags per passenger. They have no change fees and provide a full credit to passengers that don't fly. They rarely change a flight. GREAT SERVICE IF YOU ASK METhey don't provide meals but that's a service most airlines have dropped. I don't agree their service expectations are that low, they just don't assign seats. I guess you could claim failing to offer a first class cabin reflects low service but most of us don't pay extra to fly first class.

I prefer to compare SW to COSTCO. Both offer excellent service but have adjusted the level of service promised and provided in order to profitably keep prices low/reasonable.

Don't make the mistake of confusing my disagreement with lack of knowledge. I know all about Southwest Airlines and its service/business model. I simply hold a different perspective from you.

No, their service is regarded by many as being closest to what they expect. There's a big difference. Southwest sets its service expectations very low: No seat assignments, cattle-call boarding procedures, etc. They achieve those objectives very consistently.

They're very effectively managing expectations. They're successful in the same way that Woolworth was successful for many years. Of course, if you wanted better service you'd go elsewhere, but for what Woolworth proported to offer, they provided it very consistently, and at a very low price.

 

[NotUrsula]

Something else that SWA does that IMO is very service-oriented is to rather liberally empower front-line employees to make changes for passengers. A SWA gate or ticket agent has much more power to shift around your itinerary or reschedule you to a different flight than a similar position on a legacy carrier will, and that saves a lot of time and aggravation. The trust that the airline places in its employees' judgment tends to be reflected in a more positive attitude and a willingness to try to move mountains if at all possible.

 

[gigi1313]

To the OP- Is it possible that they didn't give her the extra vacation days since it wasn' tpre-approved. They might have made her take them without pay.

she only wishes! that way she could get more days off per year! LOL! and she definitely did not have a child traveling w/her as she's 60yo and was traveling w/her husband!

i'm thinking that a lot of you are probably correct in that rather than fly standby she opted for a confirmed flight a few (5) days later... she had free lodging in tampa which makes it just that much sweeter!

thanks for all the input everyone

 

[gigi1313]

to OP - who cares if she took vacation days because she was stranded or just wanted to screw with you. Get over it.

fear thee not... i'm over it!

i was just curious to know if she was being truthful or her usual story-stretching self... i've pretty much got my answer thanks to all the responses... thanks

 

[bicker]

I'm not familiar with your co-worker, but it is very common for folks to apply hyperbole to make their points seem more critical than they really are. If that was the case, it isn't unique or even unusual. Inquiring about it isn't typically a fruitful use of time and effort.