Diabetes and Beaches & Cream

[SueM in MN]

There is some very good information on this thread.

I want to add a caution that just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion doesn't necessarily mean their opinion is wrong or is not based on facts.
So, No FIGHTING.
It's fine to not agree.
It's not fine to attack other people who don't agree with you.
I think we can agree that the information about carb counts is more important to some people than to others.
As a nurse who worked in Public Health with people out in the 'real world", not in a hospital setting, some had a much easier time controlling their diabetes than others.
Did that mean the ones that had good control were trying harder?
Not usually.

There are so many variables that can't be controlled, not matter how much knowledge/experience the person has with diabetes. For some people, the individual variables don't make as much difference in their control. Carb counting may not make that much difference to them (and some of them might not understand why other people think carb counts are that important).

For some people, each little thing makes a big difference and knowing the carb counts of the foods they eat at least adds another thing they can try to control. Even if the count is not exactly correct as written, (as someone wrote), at least it is a starting point.

 

[jayandstacey]

• IMO, diabetics need to learn to function in the real world without special food or nutritional information supplied by the restaurant.
• A diabetic can eat the same foods as anyone else, they just have to learn how with experience.
• The learning curve is steeper for some diabetics.
• Food intake is only one part of the puzzle and it’s not always predictable.
• Every diabetic should learn how an apple, a Big Mac and every other food they ingest may change their blood sugar.
• It’s up to the diabetic, not the restaurant to cipher the information.
• Frankly, I don't think most food nutritional information is very accurate.

Agreed, no fighting, just a lively debate. And I think I see the issue here.

Taken individually, each of these statements is true - I suspect with no debate. ("but what about the last one" you ask - hold on, we're getting there.)

The issue lies in the implication of them taken together. If you look at the last point, that the info isn't very accurate, then we assume the OP doesn't use such information - even on the first try of some food. Further, we assume that the OP is applying these opinions to ALL diabetics per the first line, satrting with "IMO."

It would be like me saying:
- IMO, all people should learn how to defend against an attacking dog.
- I think most dogs are capable of attack.

Individually, these are true statements, as they are my opinions. It is true that I think these things, even if my underlying facts are contrary to the common belief (as in the last statement). What is key is that I may or may not think that therefore people should stop owning dogs - or that their dogs will attack them.

Regardless, if someone is a dog lover, they will take my statements as somewhat inflamatory as they will disagree with my premises. And that dog lover is bound to make generalizations and apply them to their own situation, as is human nature.

So, Disney Von Drake, you are right in all your statements.

If by your statements I can infer that therefore you never seek nutritional information, that is your right, and in fact may be the best strategy for you. If from this I think you are saying others should do the same as you - I will disagree with that inference for the reasons I give above. That seems to be what everyone has done.

But I will also defend the fact that you never said that - and apologize for assuming that you did.

 

[Lou-Ann]

For everyones info I an happy to say that Beaches and Cream has always had sugar free ice cream, in fact, one time when I was at the clam bake I Yacht Club or Beach Club I did not go up to the dessert table and my server asked me why. When I answered that I was a diabetic he promptly sent a bag carrier to Beaches and Cream , He came back with a huge platter for me of appropriate ice cream and fruit. He said I had paid for dessert with my meal and this was Disney after all. I sat and cried like a baby. he got a very big tip. . he then said that the next time we were coming to call the chef and he would make me diabetic brownies (which he did). You just have to let them know at Disney and most will go out of their way to make you happy. Had a similar thing at crystal palace. They left to go get me sugar free ice cream.....

Good luck.......

 

[Disney Von Drake]

I apologize for not responding sooner. I have been on a trip during the last two days and I recently returned.

Out of curiosity how much experience do you have with any type of diabetes?

Fifty years with my own T1. I have provided counseling to diabetics with poor control during the last 20 years. I deal a lot with undoing the harm caused by overprotective parents. They mean well but all the horror stories about blindness and amputation often cause them to make the treatment worse than the disease.

I fully understand that Disney doesn't owe us this information. My appeal to Disney would not be for medical reasons, as yes, we can do (less well) without. The appeal is a marketing one - many other major franchises offer this information without major cost or image downside - why can't Disney? We've been to Disney parks 17 days in the last year and ate every breakfast outside the parks - simply because without the information, there's too much risk of losing control and I'd rather not start off the day like that. We pretty much have to take the risk later in the day, and we've had to leave once or twice because of it.

We stayed in Disney hotels all 17 days and still didn't eat at those either - we bought groceries - cereal, muffins - that had nutritional information.

Doesn't Disney want my breakfast dollar? Their vendors have the nutritional info - so both the info and my money is there for the taking...

If you learn the approximate amounts of carbs, fat and protein in common foods based upon visual estimates of sizes, weights and volumes of portions you can accurately extrapolate that information for your dietary needs. As I mentioned, there is a learning curve but most people can master the technique with a little practice.

Diabetes should not interfere with the quality of life.

Diabetics should learn to be flexible in the management of their disease for the express purpose of gaining tighter control.

 

[wdhinn89]

I apologize for not responding sooner. I have been on a trip during the last two days and I recently returned.



Fifty years with my own T1. I have provided counseling to diabetics with poor control during the last 20 years. I deal a lot with undoing the harm caused by overprotective parents. They mean well but all the horror stories about blindness and amputation often cause them to make the treatment worse than the disease.



If you learn the approximate amounts of carbs, fat and protein in common foods based upon visual estimates of sizes, weights and volumes of portions you can accurately extrapolate that information for your dietary needs. As I mentioned, there is a learning curve but most people can master the technique with a little practice.

Diabetes should not interfere with the quality of life.

Diabetics should learn to be flexible in the management of their disease for the express purpose of gaining tighter control.

I do totally agree with everything you have said but wisdom comes with expereince.

In the beginning, when your child is first diagnosed everything is very over whelming. My son was only on two shots a day and when you couldn't measure and your carb count was off his numbers went really high which we can all agree is not good. Now after a few years and my son being on the pump we don't get as crazy. We take our Calorie King book and try our best. Corrections are easier to do without giving more shots.

I have always felt that letting my son live a normal life was very important. I let him eat what ever he wants and used to eat. Test often to watch his BG and be very involved in sports. I believe it helps him not be an angry person. I feel he takes his cues from my husband and I and we can do anything. Diabetes will not hold us back.

P.S.- his a1c's are always in the low to mid 7's, which my doctors think is great for a growing teenager with hormones going crazy.

P.S.S.- Telling people they "are wrong" is out of line. If you don't have something positive to say, don't say (or write) anything

 

[jayandstacey]

I apologize for not responding sooner. I have been on a trip during the last two days and I recently returned.

Fifty years with my own T1. I have provided counseling to diabetics with poor control during the last 20 years. I deal a lot with undoing the harm caused by overprotective parents. They mean well but all the horror stories about blindness and amputation often cause them to make the treatment worse than the disease.

As before, my first reaction is concern...as I don't see how an overprotective parent can cause harm. But then I look at the general focus of your comments and realize that your primary advocacy is toward a normal life, not a restricted life. So I get where you are coming from.

My stance: My own belief is that diabetic's bodies can be very different (some have complications quickly, others don't) and that diligence can improve the long-term prognosis. Having said that, I don't know what my daughter is - will she go 50 years with no complications? Or will she begin to have issues a year from now? And how much do my efforts matter? I do believe they matter, I just don't know how much. So yes, I'm proud to say I'm over-protective.

But, per the title of this thread, we go to Beaches and Cream, and no, we don't ask for sugar-free. But we do ask for carb counts.

My question for you: What is the harm of over-protective parents you speak of? I think you mean the harm of a "different" life, one that is constantly segregated and treated 'special' when it doesn't need to be. You are counseling these folks - what are you telling them?

If you learn the approximate amounts of carbs, fat and protein in common foods based upon visual estimates of sizes, weights and volumes of portions you can accurately extrapolate that information for your dietary needs. As I mentioned, there is a learning curve but most people can master the technique with a little practice.

Diabetes should not interfere with the quality of life.

Diabetics should learn to be flexible in the management of their disease for the express purpose of gaining tighter control.

That is all true, and in fact we do that every day. I can measure out a cup of fluid almost exactly by eye. I know how many carbs are in a french fry, chicken nugget, cup of milk, etc, etc, etc.

Yet at every chance, I will seek nutritional information to confirm that THIS place is serving food that matches my mental standard. If I don't find the information, I will ask for it. If they don't have it, then we move on, almost always successfully.

I don't see that exercise as reducing our quality of life or of creating a special situation.

Honestly, I see diabetes a little like wearing glasses:
- it is there everyday
- there are tools to correct for it, including nutritional information
- yet you should have strategies in case you don't have those tools, like a plan of what to do if you lose your glasses
- and glasses don't ever need to be a hinderance, but that doesn't mean you leave them on as you dive into a pool.

Again, I sense you are advocating a mental state that says "don't worry so much, rather, spend your energy on developing your ability to survive without such information." And again, I agree with this. I also am pleased when a place like Beaches and Cream knows and is willing to supply information, and am willing to take the time to share that with others.

In an effort to lead a normal life, we took our kids to Marrakesh where they had cous-cous. We like this stuff but rarely eat it - yes, we can estimate as if it were rice, and maybe use the calorie king book. But you know, them supplying the info would have been just a whole lot easier and more likely to be accurate. What if cous-cous and rice are completely different carb-wise? What if I don't have my calorie king book? In fact, in an effort to lead a normal life and NOT be overprotective, I just don't know cous-cous and didn't care to memorize that one. And I didn't get upset. We guessed and moved on. My preference would have been not to guess AND not to have done 'prep work' research before going to a new dining experience. If the place would supply nutritional information, I could have that kind of flexibility.

My goal? That maybe more diabetics take their "normal life" dollars to B&C, where the staff cares more than the Disney front office. And that maybe Disney gets the message.

Diabetics would have the ultimate in flexibility if only nutritional information was available everwhere food was served to the public.

 

[tinkerbell_29]

I'm pretty good at figuring out the carbs in most common foods but if they prepare it in a different way than I do at home the carb count is going to be different. I've made it as far as I have without complications because of so called over protective parents. If it weren't for them I would have never learned to manage my diabetes or be able to be on my own. So for the parents out there keep doing what your doing even if others think you are being overprotective. I also never eat the sugar free ice cream. The regular has about the same amount of carbs and taste a whole lot better. Kepp asking for carb counts and stay healthy!

Lissa

 

[Disney Von Drake]

My question for you: What is the harm of over-protective parents you speak of? I think you mean the harm of a "different" life, one that is constantly segregated and treated 'special' when it doesn't need to be. You are counseling these folks - what are you telling them?

I deal primarily with juvenile diabetics (age 6 to early 20’s) that have been hospitalized for preventable diabetes related complications. These are not newly diagnosed cases but rather people that have dealt with the disease for a year or more.

Both metabolic (low or high blood sugar and keto) and infectious complications such as foot ulcers, fungal skin, bone and urinary tract infections are common. These are the types of problems that a properly controlled diabetic should be able to prevent or manage without an urgent care admission. These problems are indicative of improper diabetic care.

After other possible causations have been ruled out, I receive a physician referral to try and figure out what went wrong and provide counseling to improve diabetic control. It is not an easy task.

Increasingly I have found a problem with poor self management by some diabetics. They are often well educated about how to care for their disease but they have very little practical experience of actually controlling the disease without the aid of their parents.

Some of these kids have never been away from home. They’ve never attended a diabetic camp. I’m speaking about children in junior and senior high school and college age. I’ve counseled kids that have never given themselves an insulin injection or attached an infusion set.

I’ve spoken with kids (and adults) who have never used a lancet device to prick their finger. Mom or Dad always took care of that task.

Another problem I’ve seen has to do with equipment costs and lack of insurance coverage. When young adults leave the nest and their parent’s health insurance no longer provides benefits, some diabetics tend to scrimp on the supplies they need to save money. They try to learn to get by with fewer glucose tests or less insulin. They switch from a pump to injections. They end up with less control.

Bottom line is that it’s good for parents to be supportive of their diabetic children but the children should be able to self manage the disease without any help or intervention from the parents.

Honestly, I see diabetes a little like wearing glasses:
- it is there everyday
- there are tools to correct for it, including nutritional information
- yet you should have strategies in case you don't have those tools, like a plan of what to do if you lose your glasses
- and glasses don't ever need to be a hinderance, but that doesn't mean you leave them on as you dive into a pool.

I like that analogy! Very good.

 

[Selket]

Some of these kids have never been away from home. They’ve never attended a diabetic camp. I’m speaking about children in junior and senior high school and college age. I’ve counseled kids that have never given themselves an insulin injection or attached an infusion set. I’ve spoken with kids (and adults) who have never used a lancet device to prick their finger. Mom or Dad always took care of that task.

Holy cow! My son is still 5 yrs old so not self-caring yet (still learning) but I can't imagine that parents would let their kids get that old and they can't self-care for most things. It sounds like these aren't newly dx'd kids either I'm guessing. I've never met a parent who did that much care for an older kid.

It is one thing to send the kid off to college and he hasn't quite mastered the technique of not washing his whites with his colors but if he can't take care of his type 1 diabetes then that is an emergency.

I guess my personal opinion on carb counts and knowing them is that I don't want let my lack of knowledge stand in my way (or William's way). I've met some parents who won't give their kids anything that they don't know the carb count on or they won't give their kids much choice or let them eat bananas cause they have "too many carbs" or etc. etc. I think that would be very limiting for the kid (and eventually a source of rebellion). I think especially when you have a child dx'd at a very young age (like infant to 3 yrs old) when they are just learning to develop a taste for foods it is especially challenging.

It is an interesting perspective. I always enjoy hearing from people who have type 1. I think just because we are all part of the type 1 community (whether having type 1 or raising a type 1 child(ren)) we definitely don't always have to agree to learn something from each other.

 

[jayandstacey]

OK, it all makes sense now.

My wife is a High School teacher and has taught in challenged, low income, etc types of schools. This "non-chalant" treatment of diabetes fits what she sees with parents in other situations.

Here, we DisBoard members have a few things in common:
- Access to the internet
- Time to spend here
- An inclination toward Disney, which is a thing that really only serves the higher income level families.

In our world here, there are really two types - protective and over-protective diabetes people. We haven't addressed the ones that don't really do enough for themselves or their kids.

Parents and kids from different backgrounds may not have the money, the information resources or the time to address diabetes the way we do. Maybe they aren't good with math and can't afford a pump - then carb counts may only make matters worse. Maybe their fear (from a lack of support) doesn't allow them to let their kids learn management techniques. And maybe they simply don't know the "right way" - and thankfully people like Disney Von Drake exist to give them strategies to help them survive better.

Oh, and by the way, Beaches and Cream is still a diabetes-friendly place