Devious Thoughts about the new pass discounts.

[deerh]

You expect someone to spend $2500~ to save $100???? or $400 if 4 in a family??
Then, add on selling it? For $900 commission, YEAH RIGHT!!!!
Selling it for LESS than $95/pt???? YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!!!!

I don't think so.... but it this world.............
DeerH

 

[LIFERBABE]

the shorter it will be around. Think about all the codes that used to be offered and then websites started posting the codes and muddied the marketing waters and now the codes are few and very difficult to transfer.

You really can't rely on this perk being around long at all especially long enough to start a resale business.
It will take a couple of high profile abuses to put us back to square one. DVC has alot of fresh meat that arent as "tired" of the parks as some of the original members and are more than willing to continue visiting the parks with or without a discount. Isnt that why we all purchased DVC over the glut of Orlando timeshares?

As far as giving people ideas, this is the Dis! We do have a Dis effect on WDW.
But yes there are people that are light years ahead of us in their deviousness. Just yesterday I had to go to the Customer Service desk at the Grocery store to claim my free turkey because I spent over $50. The lady told me that she couldnt believe the people who were bringing $50 receipts from other chains trying to claim their turkey and got it! I would have never even thought of that!

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by deerh
You expect someone to spend $2500~ to save $100???? or $400 if 4 in a family??
Then, add on selling it? For $900 commission, YEAH RIGHT!!!!
Selling it for LESS than $95/pt???? YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!!!!

I don't think so.... but it this world.............
DeerH

I see your point, was thinking about it when I posted above, but how about this. One buys 25 points at $2000, then resells for $2500. No reason to pay commission as you do it privately. And you only do the purchase when you have the sale made.

The buyer would be paying $2500 up front and just over $100 a year. You put four people on the deed from four different addresses. You then get passes for each family address. You can even get state ID cards for the address if family doesn't live with you. Total savings possibly $1000-2000 a year. You'd only have to get it 3 years to make this work.

Beca, as a relatively new member, figured out something most people on most BBS of this nature never do, that the people willing to discuss the issues aren't the people doing the devious things as a rule. My hat's off to her.

The lady told me that she couldnt believe the people who were bringing $50 receipts from other chains trying to claim their turkey and got it! I would have never even thought of that!

I can see that one as MOST stores now do price matching including the other store's coupons.

 

[John VN]

Call me naive, but, I'm not assuming that those in power have not anticipated all these evil thoughts.

Seems to me that no matter what happens it all adds up to more $$$$$$$$$$ for the MOUSE.

Could be that they expect some individuals to work the system to the max, but that is the way it is with everything.

Just have to wait and see if there are changes.

John

 

[pumpkinboy]

As for reselling AP vouchers on EBay, it's not gonna happen, or at least folks who buy these on EBay will be unpleasantly surprised when they get to the gate:

When a Walt Disney World Annual or Premium Annual Pass is ordered through dvcmember.com, an exchange certificate will be sent to you via mail. The certificate can be redeemed at any Walt Disney World Theme Park ticket window by presenting the exchange certificate, your Disney Vacation Club Member ID card and all adults must present a valid driver's license or state identification card showing they reside in the same household.

Furthermore, the sellers of these vouchers can also be prosecuted since each AP voucher carries a unique identification number, and can be tracked to the person it was sold to. So they'll get their just desserts, but no APs. Unauthorized sellers of Disney ticket media have been prosecuted in numerous cases in Florida.

As for the complex methods of obtaining lots of APs, yes it's theoretically possible (and fun to think up), but I expect very few, if any, members will go to all the trouble. And even if some do, I doubt it'll have much impact on the big picture. What I am hoping is that lots of DVCers will buy APs, go to the parks more, spend more money on Disney property, and we'll continue to get the perk (speaking as a DVC member and a Disney shareholder here).

 

[jarestel]

You make a good point, Pa. It still costs money to buy the passes and travel to WDW, so I don't see hordes of people spending $1000's to buy into DVC in order to to save a hundred bucks a year. Let's face it, the best ticket discount for those seeking to maximize savings is to buy a couple of 7-day hoppers today and save them for a few years. And Disney probably doesn't care where at WDW you spend your money, as long as you're spending it with them, be it tickets, meals, or shopping.

 

[OneMoreTry]

Beca,

OK. You've gotta tell us what terrible thing this guy does with transferred points! Don't leave us hanging. Please.



And...

I think DVC was very liberal with their limits on AP purchases. I'm fine with that if they are. Heck, I don't care how much they charge for APs. I would love it if they reduced the cost for EVERYONE in the world. However, I would rather see them become more strict than cancel the discount for DVC members. (Ie Limit AP purchases per points on a contract per year. Linked to member number. I don't think that would be cheatable.)

 

[crisi]

Could Disney simply change the rules? In order to have a resale purchase approved, the final purchase must equal 150 points?

Or, as easy as limiting (1 AP for each 25 points or whatever) only make the perk available to people with a minimum of 150 points.

 

[Dean]

Could Disney simply change the rules? In order to have a resale purchase approved, the final purchase must equal 150 points?

Or, as easy as limiting (1 AP for each 25 points or whatever) only make the perk available to people with a minimum of 150 points.

No, they couldn't limit resale purchases. They could change the rules on the pass discounts but I don't see any reasonable way they could do it that would limit most of these issues. They really couldn't say a set number per contract because contracts are of different sizes and some have more people on them than others. Making it per a certain number of points will be difficult to administer but would be reasonable.

Beca,

OK. You've gotta tell us what terrible thing this guy does with transferred points! Don't leave us hanging. Please.

I suspect she's referring to the practice of taking points and reserving time, then listing on ebay. In it's extreme, for high demand times like Xmas.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I don't really see this as a problem. In fact it would be helpful if someone demonstrated a proof in dollars and cents on how this would fly.

You'd have to find a 25 point resale to start. Since the point value is low the dollar value will be high. Let's say $75...$1875 in principal. Then if we are generous let's say the contract is maxed out so the owner is paying the maintenance. Again, being liberal, let's say the other closing costs are $725. You then establish 4 owners at 4 separate addresses on the deed yielding a possible 8 passes for each address...assuming more than one card can be issued per contract. So you have a buyin cost of $2600 divided by 4...$650 each. Each owner would then gather up their 8 person family residing at the same address all over the age of 10 and buy APs. So for that year they'd have a net saving of $150. Of course they can't stay in the room because the contract was maxed out....but perchance it wasn't they still couldn't because they are 8 people trying to use 6 points. But! on the plus side next year your maintenance fee would be minimal.

...I'm having a hard time envisioning a situation that would be viable for the average American family to make this "AP's for fun and profit". One family who goes one or more times a year, not Florida residents, and who choose not to stay on site might be able rent their 25 points out to offset the cost of their purchase and maintenance. Assuming they always buy AP's a two kid over 10 family's $400 per year savings would also offset the purchase. Also assuming Disney keeps raising the per point price they could break even on their purchase within 4 years. After that their $400 savings will become perhaps $600 per year on AP's. When they tire of Disney they can sell DVC for pure profit. This seems like a lot of work for not much profit.

However I can see family members who already have DVC buying 25 point add ons and selling them to other people willing to pay cash without using a broker. This WOULD be a bad thing because it will increase DVC's workload. Which brings you back around to the 150 point contract minimum to use this perk...given a member is supposed to have that minimum I don't see a problem with it.

 

[tjkraz]

I think it's a bit of a reach to imply that someone would buy into DVC for one-time use of the AP discount. However, for someone who might be on the fence and/or not want to invest in 150 points, the numbers are pretty amazing.

A 50-pt contract at OKW at roughly $80 per point would cost $4000 up front.

With those points, you could stay 5-6 nights in a studio per year during Adventure, Choice or Dream season. Dues would run about $190 per year (less than 40 bucks per night). And, a family of four could save $350-400 per year on Annual Passes.

Those are some pretty darn attractive numbers if you ask me.

Which brings you back around to the 150 point contract minimum to use this perk...given a member is supposed to have that minimum I don't see a problem with it.

I think it's unfair to say that a member is "supposed to have" at least 150. 150 is just a number that DVC dreamed up as a minumum. Since they roll-up all administrative costs, closing costs, etc. in their base fees, their profit margin would diminish on smaller contracts.

Personally, I think it would be a mistake to introduce the concept of different classes of members.

 

[Dean]

As others have said, it would be a situation only applicable to a relatively small percentage of people. I see it as a possibility for those with off site timeshares in Orlando OR those who own timeshare other places who plan to trade in routinely. As well as those who come for a month or so for vacation and rent a house or the like. I already know a couple of people who have points just to get a studio to use as a holding area while they are at the parks but they actually stay in off site timeshares even for the nights they have the studios. It gives them a place to keep their things and a pool to take a break at. They (the ones I know of) usually have a large family gathering with like 10-12 people per trip. The dollars might not be worth it for most but for some people/situations, you'd be talking savings of a couple thousand per year. Even if the perk evaporated or changed for the worse in only 3 years, it still be worth the hassle. But I'd agree, the only way to make it work would be for private sales. And I could easily see a couple of people buying 25 pt add ons with the specific intent of selling them for a few hundred dollar profit just for this reason. But I'd agree that the most likely candidates are those who are on the fence about buying anyway.

Plus I'm sure there will be those that take offense at anyone who manages to work this perk to their advantage in some of the ways we've alluded to on this and other threads. And I'd agree it increases the likelihood of some being willing to purchase smaller contracts in large part for the pass discounts. But I doubt it would have any significant impact on admin fees, etc.

 

[NMW]

You guys make me laugh! I would never even THINK of some of these things. That's one of the reasons I enjoy this board so much.

 

[LisaR]

One thought I honestly had, is changing the address on one of my contracts. Not sure if I am ok with it or not, but if I were 2 seperate owners, then there would be multiple pass discounts. I bought extra DVC to share, we did not worry about how it was deeded but my family does "pay as they go" so I feel bad they can't get the discount.

JMHO
Sandy

I don't understand this. Do you pay for your extended families AP's each year? If so, then you could still continue to do that. It wouldn't cost you anymore then you are used to paying. You just wouldn't save money with the discount.

If they pay for the tickets themselves, then, again, their cost won't change. I know it would be nice if they could get the discount but it isn't like not getting it is going to change anything. They are used to paying it so what is the harm? Of course, they are your contracts and your relatives but I would never take my investment and put someone elses address on it just to save a few hundred dollars a year on tickets. I love my extended family but not that much! lol

Lisa

 

[Lisa F]

Of course if Disney wanted to be TOTALLY evil they could drive resales down while keeping their own numbers up by allowing AP discounts ONLY to people who buy in through Disney directly. Maybe they could grandfather all existing resales (otherwise there would be a holy war) but wouldn't that be a great selling point to buy in directly from Disney? It would make a LOT of people mad, though, but it would eliminate the scenarios above.

 

[DebbieB]

My guide confirmed associates if not at the same address are not entitled to the discount.

One thought I honestly had, is changing the address on one of my contracts. Not sure if I am ok with it or not, but if I were 2 seperate owners, then there would be multiple pass discounts. I bought extra DVC to share, we did not worry about how it was deeded but my family does "pay as they go" so I feel bad they can't get the discount.

JMHO
Sandy

I'm not sure changing the address on one contract would work. They check the address on the ID of the person who has the DVC Card. That address has to match the ID of the any other people with you in order to get this discount. Changing the address on one contract would not change the address on your ID. The only way to do it would be to change the name on one contract (then you have to deal with ROFR) so that person could get a separate ID card.