Delta on my local news...

[dpayne1969]

wow thanks for the link,i follow this daily(well actually all day )
so it sounds like the judge is gonna rule by Monday then?
That would be good because on SW i found 1 way tickets for 109 PP & it expires on Monday.
This is so stressing for all im sure we all wish they would get this over so we can move on.

 

[wdwfamilyinIL]

Not really sure what the link means, I don't understand a lot of it...not up on unions and so forth. I just caught the part that they still don't have any agreement, and it didn't sound like one was very close. My husband thinks that everything will work out, and isn't suprised by this, he figures at the 11th hour they will do something. I really wished they thought of everyone but themselves....don't they realize how much some of us families have paid for these tickets, and what about all of the other workers who could lose their jobs because of this. I don't like unions, and never will. I saw my dad and step dad both get screwed by uaw from when they worked at gm. It's a shame that the pilots even have a union in the first place.

Just in case I will keep praying for the best...

 

[dpayne1969]

ok i just reread the link & i think the Monday ruling will be for the flight attendant contract.UGGGGGGGGhhhhhhhhhh this is crazy all the way around.
Flight attendants and pilots are on the uproar for Delta my hubby thinks they will not strike either but he also says it could go either way in this situation.He has no worries as the vacation is paid in full and was driving his motorcycle to Florida anyway.Maybe me and kids can hook skateboards to back of his bike and hitch a ride that way.
might be an option.LOL.Gotta get some laugh out of all this i need some good cheer!!

 

[wee-haggis]

..not up on unions and so forth.... I don't like unions, and never will. I saw my dad and step dad both get screwed by uaw from when they worked at gm.

umm....if you don't mind me saying,its a bit of a contradictory statement (not up on unions...but I don't like them). Just curious how your dad and step dad got screwed by UAW ?
I've worked in both union and non-union enviroments. Sure,there are more militant unions than others but in saying that.....Its a fact that if it wasn't for the unions,the non-union compnanies would be paying a pittance to their employees.I worked in companies with horrible unions (United Steelworkers comes to mind) but for the most part unions are still an absolute need today as much as they were 100 years ago. The alternative?....Walmart and the like.

 

[bicker]

My husband thinks that everything will work out, and isn't suprised by this, he figures at the 11th hour they will do something.

That seems likely to me, as well: Probably, the pilots will accept a smaller amount.

I really wished they thought of everyone but themselves....don't they realize how much some of us families have paid for these tickets, and what about all of the other workers who could lose their jobs because of this.

I doubt either side could afford to think about that. Both sides are fighting for their financial lives. They're working very hard to find a way just to keep themselves above water. They don't have any additional leverage that they can afford to divert to anything else, such as the personal needs of others.

The alternative?....Walmart and the like.

My company isn't subjected to union labor, and we're not Wal-Mart.

 

[wdwfamilyinIL]

umm....if you don't mind me saying,its a bit of a contradictory statement (not up on unions...but I don't like them). Just curious how your dad and step dad got screwed by UAW ?
I've worked in both union and non-union enviroments. Sure,there are more militant unions than others but in saying that.....Its a fact that if it wasn't for the unions,the non-union compnanies would be paying a pittance to their employees.I worked in companies with horrible unions (United Steelworkers comes to mind) but for the most part unions are still an absolute need today as much as they were 100 years ago. The alternative?....Walmart and the like.

I don't know the fine details, I have just seen the end results in things like insurance plans and pension checks. The union screwed them over, I also believe that the union was the reason our local gm plant was closed about a decade ago.

 

[dozeman]

I don't know the fine details, I have just seen the end results in things like insurance plans and pension checks. The union screwed them over, I also believe that the union was the reason our local gm plant was closed about a decade ago.

You ought to learn the fine details. The UAW is the reason they have pensions and insurance plans. That is not the result of the union " screwing them over " Do you think these corporations give these benefits out the kindness of their hearts?

 

[wdwfamilyinIL]

Never said that anything was given from the kindness of ones heart, but sometimes I don't think unions see reality. Yes its wonderful to have great paychecks and benefits, but sometimes companies can't do what they once could. I just know that union isn't a good word from where I am from, unions have caused several companies to move from town. In the end what would have been better, a pay cut or no job. Just glad that dh job is nonunion!

 

[brentalex]

I don't know the fine details, I have just seen the end results in things like insurance plans and pension checks. The union screwed them over, I also believe that the union was the reason our local gm plant was closed about a decade ago.

The union did not close the plant, gm did. It is not the union that causes the problem it is the corporations that want more and more in their pockets and want to squeeze and squeeze every last drop out of the employees. Some day they will realize that if they continue to cut jobs and cut wages, no one will be able to afford the 30,000 new car, the 300,000 new home, the 3.00 a gallon gas. They have you convinced that it is the little guy that is the problem, the union worker is the problem, not the ceo making 13 million a year.
Now delta is in a different situation, they are hurting. But it is not the pilots who ran the company they way it was run, it is the officers of the company. Yet the pilots seem to be the bad guys. They are willing to negotiate, willing to take pay cuts, willing to help out, but not willing to sell their souls. How much of a pay cut has the ceo taken? After closing your local gm plant, how much did the ceo of gm give back because his plans for the company had not worked.
lets put the blame where it belongs, at the top of these companies, not the bottom.

 

[wdwfamilyinIL]

I am sure the mgmt could give twice as much as they ever will, and I will never blame the workers, I have seen to many people lose too much. In knowing how tender of a subject unions can be, I am just going to leave it alone. I hope that the pilots are truelly aware of what might happen not only to them, but to all the others involved.

 

[bicker]

Do you think these corporations give these benefits out the kindness of their hearts?

That's right: The unions threaten to destroy the company if they don't get the benefits they want.

(But it's actually pretty-much true! )

I am sure the mgmt could give twice as much as they ever will

... and it still wouldn't make much of a difference on the bottom line.

 

[Disneyjosh229]

no one will be able to afford the 30,000 new car, the 300,000 new home, the 3.00 a gallon gas. They have you convinced that it is the little guy that is the problem,

See, but your forget to mention that as the "little guy" makes less and less money, companies will be forced to lower there rates (because no one can afford their services). That 30,000 car will be 20,000, that 300,000 house will be 200,000 and that 3.00 a gallon gas will be 1.50... Supply and demand is what its all about

 

[dozeman]

That's right: The unions threaten to destroy the company if they don't get the benefits they want.

(But it's actually pretty-much true! )

... and it still wouldn't make much of a difference on the bottom line.

It's all a race to the bottom and these corporations won't be satisfied until we all are making third world wages. People like you who so staunchly defend them will be right down there with the rest of us, union or not.

 

[wee-haggis]

See, but your forget to mention that as the "little guy" makes less and less money, companies will be forced to lower there rates (because no one can afford their services). That 30,000 car will be 20,000, that 300,000 house will be 200,000 and that 3.00 a gallon gas will be 1.50... Supply and demand is what its all about

umm....no..!!
When the little guy makes less money.....Companies will make more profit (not lower rates ......because we all need cars,houses etc)

 

[bicker]

It's all a race to the bottom and these corporations won't be satisfied until we all are making third world wages.

The "race to the bottom" and third world wages has to do with global competition. We are not alone, and got spoiled by decades of exploiting the rest of the world. Those days are gone, through no fault of business, and so we had better get used to the changes that will happen because we're no longer the only country on Earth.

People like you...

Watch your tone, son. It's okay to disagree. It's not okay to make personal attacks.

 

[dozeman]

The "race to the bottom" and third world wages has to do with global competition. We are not alone, and got spoiled by decades of exploiting the rest of the world. Those days are gone, through no fault of business, and so we had better get used to the changes that will happen because we're no longer the only country on Earth.

Watch your tone, son. It's okay to disagree. It's not okay to make personal attacks.

Well dad, I take your constant attacks on unions personally. As long as you keep it up my tone won't be changing any time soon.

 

[NotUrsula]

They have you convinced that it is the little guy that is the problem, the union worker is the problem, not the ceo making 13 million a year.

No, really, "they" don't. I'm not sure who "they" is supposed to be, exactly, but no one has me or anyone that I know convinced that union workers are the problem -- union workers do whatever the union tells them to do, otherwise they are out of the union and often (in a closed shop) out of a job. In my book, THAT is the problem. It's benevolent paternalism, and it is bad, no matter who "Daddy" is.

*I* think for myself, thank you, and *I* think that the unions themselves are just as greedy and power-hungry as any corporate senior management team. In today's economy, flexibility is the key to economic survival, but unions consistently attempt to foil job constructs that encourage flexibility. The one thing I NEVER want to hear out of anyone who works for me is "it's not my job to do X." If the job needs to be done, you do it, and you don't whine about it not being in your job description. I don't ever ask my employees do something I wouldn't do myself, and I don't ask anyone to do anything hazardous without proper training or equipment, but if I ask someone to pick up trash because we're opening in 10 minutes and a windstorm flipped the dumpster last night, the answer I had better get is, "Where do we keep the bags?"

I'm not as libertarian in my outlook as Bicker is, but I feel that by and large, US unions have failed to update their perspectives as the marketplace has changed. Worst of all, in my eyes, major Unions have in many ways sold out those "little guys" you are so fiercely defending. I know of several major union contracts here that include mandatory overtime but *no sick leave*, which means that it is nearly impossible for a worker to take time off without advance notice. In a two-income family or a single-parent family, that means you are punished for having children, because the little darlings tend not to tell you about the mumps two months in advance, and night care for younger kids is well-nigh impossible to find. I also know of several union locals in my area that are still quite hostile to minorities, are as lily-white now as they were in 1947, and boys' clubs to boot. And yes, the members vote, but they only get a yea or nay. It is the union leadership that works out the details, for a contract that THEY don't have to work under. When a union is just as coercive as an employer is, what kind of bargain have workers in a closed shop made?

 

[Disneyjosh229]

Well dad, I take your constant attacks on unions personally. As long as you keep it up my tone won't be changing any time soon.

Wow, a little testy are we?!

Last time I checked these were Discussion boards not attack forums. There here to debate and discuss certain topics and outright rudeness should'nt be allowed....

 

[brentalex]

No, really, "they" don't. I'm not sure who "they" is supposed to be, exactly, but no one has me or anyone that I know convinced that union workers are the problem -- union workers do whatever the union tells them to do, otherwise they are out of the union and often (in a closed shop) out of a job. In my book, THAT is the problem. It's benevolent paternalism, and it is bad, no matter who "Daddy" is.

There is a book called 'What's the Matter with Kansas' It talks about how people have been convinced to think and vote against their own best interests. The 'they' I speak of are those in power who have convinced people that it is ok to give the rich huge tax cuts, while convincing the middle class that their little bit of a cut is ok. Never mind all the extra fees you now have to pay, never mind that the gap between rich and poor gets wider and wider every year, never mind that the Alternative Minimum Tax hits more and more of us each year. Just keep thinking that trickle down ( they don't call it that now, but it is the same thing ) will eventually get you some of that. 'They' will just keep taking more and giving you less, because 'they' have convinced you that it is ok, that it is the way it is supposed to be. The corporations are not trickling down their huge profits to us. They are cutting pension plans, reducing work forces, cutting the amount they pay for health insurance, and keeping more and more for them selves.

 

[PlutoPony]

The corporations are not trickling down their huge profits to us.

Profits do trickle down to shareholders who own their stock thru investments of all types - pension plans, 401's, Roth IRA's, etc. Many many Americans do benefit from the "huge" profits of corporations, they just may not realize it.