Decisions to Buy DVC - hesitant spouse

[jockotaco]

I want to invest in DVC however I have not been able to convince my husband that it would be a good investment for our family, I don't even think I could convince him to go to the presentation that DVC does at any of the parks - he's very suspicious of time shares. What are some of the "facts" of DVC that helped you decide to buy or convince a hesitant spouse that it would be a good investment?

I had the same problem, here is how I justified it. I am a pretty simplistic person although saving and investments are important to me. Many people on this board will try to calculate "the lost potential of money". I found this extremely hard to determine. Most people assume the market or potential of money is always going to increase. Well as we know this doesn't always hold true. So would your analysis be different assuming an 8% rate of return Vs. a -2%...Obviously. I fugured in todays dollars what it would cost to take the next 4-5 trips I want to take. For me they were 1-2 trips to Disneyland (3 nights in a 1 bedroom suite or 2 rooms), a week at WDW staying at Animal Kingdom and a week in Hawaii. I simply picked a week and priced each trips rack rate, added these together and compared to the point cost of joining DVC. For me these 3-4 trips (given the cost of a suite or 2 rooms) was a break even when comparing the points needed for a 1 bedroom villa over this same period of time. I also assumed roughly $100 per day for cooking in the unit for a family of 5 Vs. eating out based on eating Breakfast and Dinner in the unit.

 

[k3chantal]

Multiple posts have reminded all of us that generally speaking, exchanging points with RCI is not the best financial trade. I think it is how you look at it. My contract is fully paid so I only have my yearly dues which are $1500.00 (currently). When we exchanged 160 points with RCI, I received a weeks' stay in Kauai, Hawaii at a wonderful resort in Princevalle. It would 'rent' for $2000.00 a week if I were to pay cash. So I, at minimum, 'saved' 500 dollars by using my points. Then I still had points 'left' over so I was able to use them to visit Disneyland that year and stay at the Grand Californian. I've paid cash for that experience in the past, so I probably would have spent $2000.00 dollars for the amount of time I spent there IF I had paid cash.

I feel for the $1500.00 dues for the year, I got an incredible deal. DL and Hawaii. I am glad I purchased my points from Disney so I had to ability to decide what to do and not to be 'locked' into disney properties. I probably feel that way because I live in California. Going to Florida 'every year' is prohibitive if you look at the cost of airplane tickets from CA. I don't look at it as 'wasting' the value of my points if I use it in different ways. I saved money on airplane travel by going to Hawaii too.

The experience I had in Hawaii was truly one of the top vacations of my life. I am glad that I have my Disney timeshare and that I took a risk. It was worth it.

 

[disneynutz]

Many assume that because they are DVC Members, they will be able to book at non home resorts at 7 months or less and get what they want, that's not always true. They also assume that trading outside of DVC is easy and that is not always true. RCI has over 4000 locations but DVC only has access to 500 or so and as some members have found out even trying for a trade 2 years in advance doesn't always work.

Bill

 

[k3chantal]

That's true Disneynutz. When I called for Hawaii; I had a list and a very open ended plan. I wanted anywhere in Hawaii (had never been there; so we were willing to explore) but would have taken anywhere on the West Coast (we were trying to save money on flights). I almost fell off my chair when I was told that I had two resorts to choose from in Hawaii;both on Kauai. I quickly hung up the phone and sat on the computer with my husband and chose which of the two looked the best from other independent websites and trip reports. I called DVC back again, holding my breathe knowing that it might have already been taken; but we were fortunate that day.

We lucked out. We know we did. And we would try again; knowing that we might not get what we think we want but might end up with a new fantastic experience.

 

[Sammie]

Honestly at this point and we have owned our DVC for almost 15 years, I can not recommend DVC for anyone unless you are strictly interested in going to Disney World and you are happy with the resort you buy into as your home resort.

It is not the best way or even cheapest way to travel to other destinations.

You may at times get lucky and get another DVC resort at 7 months other than your home resort but many times you won't. Only buy where you could be happy staying there for many years.

At first it seems you will never get tired of Disney vacations but even too much of a good thing at times is simply too much.

I would only buy enough points to go every other year starting out and see how it fits.

As your children age you will soon see it gets harder and harder to plan 11- 8 months out due to their school, sports or work schedules.

Good luck, we are glad we bought when prices were lower, would I do it again at today's prices, no.

 

[JimMIA]

I feel for the $1500.00 dues for the year, I got an incredible deal. DL and Hawaii.

You DID get a good deal.

One of the problems with generalities is they're not always correct. That's true of the conventional wisdom about RCI exchanges not being a good use of your points. You can get good deals exchanging DVC through RCI...but your choices are limited and the process is cumbersome.

But "deals" are relative.

For example, I own Wyndham. Without exchanging, I have access to ELEVEN Wyndham resorts in Hawaii including SIX on Kauai. Wyndham has the same number of resorts in Hawaii as DVC has in their entire system. And exchanging through RCI, I have dozens of choices in Hawaii...not two. For well under $1,000 in dues, I can get a full week in a 2 bedroom in Hawaii either way.

 

[Dean]

Multiple posts have reminded all of us that generally speaking, exchanging points with RCI is not the best financial trade. I think it is how you look at it. My contract is fully paid so I only have my yearly dues which are $1500.00 (currently). When we exchanged 160 points with RCI, I received a weeks' stay in Kauai, Hawaii at a wonderful resort in Princevalle. It would 'rent' for $2000.00 a week if I were to pay cash. So I, at minimum, 'saved' 500 dollars by using my points. Then I still had points 'left' over so I was able to use them to visit Disneyland that year and stay at the Grand Californian. I've paid cash for that experience in the past, so I probably would have spent $2000.00 dollars for the amount of time I spent there IF I had paid cash.

I feel for the $1500.00 dues for the year, I got an incredible deal. DL and Hawaii. I am glad I purchased my points from Disney so I had to ability to decide what to do and not to be 'locked' into disney properties. I probably feel that way because I live in California. Going to Florida 'every year' is prohibitive if you look at the cost of airplane tickets from CA. I don't look at it as 'wasting' the value of my points if I use it in different ways. I saved money on airplane travel by going to Hawaii too.

The experience I had in Hawaii was truly one of the top vacations of my life. I am glad that I have my Disney timeshare and that I took a risk. It was worth it.

A couple of points. First, buying in to trade or use for cruises or anything other than to stay at DVC resorts is NEVER a good or reasonable choice. Already owning and deciding to use those options is a different situation, one that is reasonable or not depending on the specifics but it's your choice to make whatever decisions you chose, good or bad. One should consider the up front costs, esp for other than a one time deal. One should also at least consider the value of what is being given up including the possibility of renting those points. Another option and one that is usually the best for someone looking at doing other timeshares routinely is to buy less DVC points and look at a different timeshare option for non DVC trips.

 

[Dean]

I want to invest in DVC however I have not been able to convince my husband that it would be a good investment for our family, I don't even think I could convince him to go to the presentation that DVC does at any of the parks - he's very suspicious of time shares. What are some of the "facts" of DVC that helped you decide to buy or convince a hesitant spouse that it would be a good investment?

Translation, he's heard hearsay about timeshares but doesn't know anything about them. I'm assuming you've asked him and reasoned with him and he refused. If this is the case, and you want to investigate, do so on your own and you could even buy on your own potentially, are you the planner of the group? One thing you might try is to challenge him. Just realize that if he does actually investigate timeshares, he may come up with a different choice than you are looking at. Comparatively DVC is still very expensive compared to most timeshares and that's both to buy in and every year.

 

[Mick West]

FACTS:
- With DVC I can go more often and stay in resorts I couldn't afford otherwise
- Can take kids and grandkids and create great memories, stay in beautiful locations (Animal Kingdom, Savannah view/last rip- Bay Lake Tower, 1 BR, MK view - would have cost over $600 per night!)
- On two occassions I took 13 family members, had two, 2BR units at Beach Club villas, at no room cost to any of thefamily. (These would have been over $800 a night!)
- Septof 2011 - cruise on the dream
- I kept up with my visits and rack rates and figure I "paid" for my original purchase price in 7 years.
- Going in Sept 12, friends flying in from Texas to meet us. They've got a room and will travel on Magical Express - I'm their hero! (Hopefully they'll but me a meal!!)

 

[Dean]

FACTS:
- With DVC I can go more often and stay in resorts I couldn't afford otherwise
- Can take kids and grandkids and create great memories, stay in beautiful locations (Animal Kingdom, Savannah view/last rip- Bay Lake Tower, 1 BR, MK view - would have cost over $600 per night!)
- On two occassions I took 13 family members, had two, 2BR units at Beach Club villas, at no room cost to any of thefamily. (These would have been over $800 a night!)
- Septof 2011 - cruise on the dream
- I kept up with my visits and rack rates and figure I "paid" for my original purchase price in 7 years.
- Going in Sept 12, friends flying in from Texas to meet us. They've got a room and will travel on Magical Express - I'm their hero! (Hopefully they'll but me a meal!!)

There are cheaper ways to stay on property than DVC so technically you may have additional value but you also have additional cost. Rack rates for Disney in general have no meaning unless you would have paid those prices.

 

[JimMIA]

Rack rates for Disney in general have no meaning unless you would have paid those prices.

This is one of the key facts that we usually leave out in our financial gymnastics to justify any timeshare. To get an accurate picture (as opposed to a justification) you really have to look at ALL options...and you have to do honest math

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have NEVER paid rack rate anywhere at WDW. It's such an overbuilt area that there is always some kind of deal.

 

[ELMC]

This is one of the key facts that we usually leave out in our financial gymnastics to justify any timeshare. To get an accurate picture (as opposed to a justification) you really have to look at ALL options...and you have to do honest math

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have NEVER paid rack rate anywhere at WDW. It's such an overbuilt area that there is always some kind of deal.

I completely agree. If you want an honest comparison to determine the value of DVC vs. staying in Deluxes paying OOP, you should really use a 30% discount from rack rate or calculate renting points at $10 a point. If you do then you will discover that the "break even" point for a direct purchase that the DVC salespeople speak about is not 7 years like they say, but more like 14 years (not accounting for time value of money). If you finance, the break even point is well beyond 20 years.

 

[fmer55]

I completely agree. If you want an honest comparison to determine the value of DVC vs. staying in Deluxes paying OOP, you should really use a 30% discount from rack rate or calculate renting points at $10 a point. If you do then you will discover that the "break even" point for a direct purchase that the DVC salespeople speak about is not 7 years like they say, but more like 14 years (not accounting for time value of money). If you finance, the break even point is well beyond 20 years.

I would like to give a laymans explanation of my computations.

Stayed boardwalk concierge deluxe room 2/8-2/12. cost of room alone with a 30% discount was $1900.

with the 200 points i am purchasing i will be able to do the same stay in a 1bdrm preferred and then add a 3 night stay in a studio/preferred in oct25-28. the rate for those 3 nights is 1755rack-30%=1228.

so in my simple mind i am getting $3128 woth of lodging for my $1100 MF.

I just looked at preferred studio in dream season(same as early feb) and rack rate for a studio(not a 1br) is 1800, so assuming the 30% discount you are looking at $1260. the price is also the same for a savanna studio.

so now my 2 vacations at 30% discount are 1228+1260=2488 compared to MF's of 1100. i have a savings of 1388 so if you take my 11k initial investment my break even is 7.9 years. keep in mind this is including a studio for the feb stay which will actually be a one bdrm.

and for the record i refuse to include a 3% growth of money based on inflation and possible earnings due to my complete lack of faith in the new world economy

just a simpletons view of DVC

 

[Dean]

I completely agree. If you want an honest comparison to determine the value of DVC vs. staying in Deluxes paying OOP, you should really use a 30% discount from rack rate or calculate renting points at $10 a point. If you do then you will discover that the "break even" point for a direct purchase that the DVC salespeople speak about is not 7 years like they say, but more like 14 years (not accounting for time value of money). If you finance, the break even point is well beyond 20 years.

And to be honest, that's the best case scenario. Any hiccups could easily throw it over to the negative.

I would like to give a laymans explanation of my computations.

Stayed boardwalk concierge deluxe room 2/8-2/12. cost of room alone with a 30% discount was $1900.

with the 200 points i am purchasing i will be able to do the same stay in a 1bdrm preferred and then add a 3 night stay in a studio/preferred in oct25-28. the rate for those 3 nights is 1755rack-30%=1228.

so in my simple mind i am getting $3128 woth of lodging for my $1100 MF.

I just looked at preferred studio in dream season(same as early feb) and rack rate for a studio(not a 1br) is 1800, so assuming the 30% discount you are looking at $1260. the price is also the same for a savanna studio.

so now my 2 vacations at 30% discount are 1228+1260=2488 compared to MF's of 1100. i have a savings of 1388 so if you take my 11k initial investment my break even is 7.9 years. keep in mind this is including a studio for the feb stay which will actually be a one bdrm.

and for the record i refuse to include a 3% growth of money based on inflation and possible earnings due to my complete lack of faith in the new world economy

just a simpletons view of DVC

You're certainly free to use any assumptions you like but to not assume growth of investments, you are definitely an outlier. Also, your comparisons are flawed in that you're comparing concierge rooms to DVC and your option in question (DVC) as it's own benchmark. I've had around 15-20 DVC units the last 2-3 years (all 1 & 2 BR) with my cost being around $400 per week so it's all relative.

 

[fmer55]

And to be honest, that's the best case scenario. Any hiccups could easily throw it over to the negative.

You're certainly free to use any assumptions you like but to not assume growth of investments, you are definitely an outlier. Also, your comparisons are flawed in that you're comparing concierge rooms to DVC and your option in question (DVC) as it's own benchmark. I've had around 15-20 DVC units the last 2-3 years (all 1 & 2 BR) with my cost being around $400 per week so it's all relative.

neither were concierge rooms in my assumptions, i went on and put in disney site and put in vacations, both of the latter comparisons are studios........

 

[mjc2003]

Rack rates for Disney in general have no meaning unless you would have paid those prices.

I think this is a great point, and really one of the critical components to the true "value" of DVC. We bought DVC b/c we would have and did pay those prices. I spent about $13,000 on cash reservations for a 2 bedroom for 2 vacations. Suddenly a resale contract seemed to make sense.
But if you would never spend that money otherwise, then it's a nice reassurance or justification for a discretionary purchase, but nothing more.

And really the money you "save" on the rooms, if you were only going to stay deluxe, is really lost on the increased number of trips you end up taking.

 

[Dean]

neither were concierge rooms in my assumptions, i went on and put in disney site and put in vacations, both of the latter comparisons are studios........

I'm sorry if I misread but I thought I read BW concierge deluxe room and $1900, my mistake.

 

[crisi]

My sister bought some other timeshare and has successfully traded into DVC four out of five years now. Including BCV and vakl. She pays less in dues, has better RCi trade choices, and paid less for her contact. The fifth year they were happy over at bonnet creek.

If you need to be on site, buy DVC. If you need a specific DVC resort, buy at that resort. If your goal is to enjoy Disney, and if you end up off site once in a while, that's ok, buy someone elses reputible timeshare and trade in.

 

[DougEMG]

This is one of the key facts that we usually leave out in our financial gymnastics to justify any timeshare. To get an accurate picture (as opposed to a justification) you really have to look at ALL options...and you have to do honest math

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have NEVER paid rack rate anywhere at WDW. It's such an overbuilt area that there is always some kind of deal.

Completely agree. When looking into DVC I compared it to staying at a moderate which is what we always did.

When I first looked at DVC it was at direct pricing levels only and I was never comfortable with the number of years it was going to take to break even so I never bought. It wasn't till resale prices dropped down low enough that I was comfortable with how long it was going to take to break even that I ended up buying.

 

[DougEMG]

That's what I do. I have stayed at a DVC resort (SSR, OKW, WLV and BCV) every year. I have never stayed off site. I am always able to find a DVC resort to trade for. If your interested, I have some of my units that I'm looking to sell. They will be a lot less than what you pay for a DVC resort.

I'm all for staying on site as cheap as possible and this trading in sounds like an interesting option. How easy is it to do? I'm on the west coast and currently have to go during school vacations (spring break, summer and Christmas). To make it worth while we always go for at least 2-3 weeks at a time. Is this easy to do with trading or is it hard to get multiple weeks in a row at very specific times.

When we retire though, the plan is to do longer trips of around 4 weeks at a time, want to escape the winters.

Thanks