Debt Dumpers - 2016

Well, I am grateful that my parents love me at least a little bit. I talked to my mom tonight, after I had talked to a couple of sales people at a couple of car lots, and she is encouraging me to take an offer from the Buick dealership for a new 2016 Encore. She has offered to pay the payments for the summer, and I should have one of my big accounts paid off by then from what I'll make this summer, which would let me split my snowball and pick up the payment myself. It just means that my snowball would drop from being almost $1000 a month to around $700. But, I'd have a new car, that gets an estimated 35 mpg on the highway, the insurance would only go up by about $200 a year (not counting the premium increase from the accident), and I shouldn't have any mechanical issues for several years. Plus, this particular dealer offers $9.95 oil changes for life. Don't know all the details on that, the sales guy just kind of threw it out there as I was getting ready to leave.

I've got to go by a different dealer in the morning and talk to them - I called and set an appointment to see what they could find (the sales guy is an old friend of mine). But unless he can find an incredibly awesome deal among the trade-ins, I may go for the new car.

I'm surprised your insurance won't go up more than that for a brand new car. I'm not sure if your state has property tax on vehicles like we do here, but that is another thing to consider. I've always heard that you lose a lot of the value of a brand new car as soon as you drive it off the lot. Then again, I have friends advising me to only get a new car and nothing used. I will probably be getting a car this year rather than next at the rate mine is declining. Major oil leak along with other issues - latest is that the blinker seems to be going haywire. Guess I'll need to bite the bullet and just go for it. Good luck with yours!
 
I'm surprised your insurance won't go up more than that for a brand new car. I'm not sure if your state has property tax on vehicles like we do here, but that is another thing to consider. I've always heard that you lose a lot of the value of a brand new car as soon as you drive it off the lot. Then again, I have friends advising me to only get a new car and nothing used. I will probably be getting a car this year rather than next at the rate mine is declining. Major oil leak along with other issues - latest is that the blinker seems to be going haywire. Guess I'll need to bite the bullet and just go for it. Good luck with yours!


Yeah. I was really kind of scared to see how much the insurance would raise, but that really wasn't bad.

We do have personal property tax, so yeah I'll wind up having to pay something. But ... the way it works here the tax wouldn't be assessed until January and not due until next October so I'd have time to get it together. And, the tax rate tends to be pretty low. I jut got my tax bill on my old car the other day, and it was for 1% of what the value turned out to be.

And I did ask the sales guy about depreciation, and he said that it shouldn't be an effect because of the discount the dealership has in place right now. Essentially, they are discounting the Encores enough that the discount is more than the anticipated depreciation (since depreciation is supposed to be based on the suggested retail price). I've never bought a new car, so I don't know.

Sorry to hear that your car is wearing out faster than expected. I hope you can find something good, and inexpensive. Or inversely, that you don't need to find a replacement for a long time still.
 

Sorry to hear that your car is wearing out faster than expected. I hope you can find something good, and inexpensive. Or inversely, that you don't need to find a replacement for a long time still.

It looks like I may be getting a new to me vehicle next month. I don't have as much for a down payment as I'd like - only about 10% but today my car was horrible. I had to pull over to the side of the road half a dozen times to turn it off and then back on and it still wouldn't accelerate well. The engine light is also now on. Rather than paying for any repairs, I would much rather get a vehicle that will fit my needs - hauling my 90 pound dog around being the foremost of those needs. My car is a two door 2001 Sunfire with 156,000 miles. It's been good to me, but it's time to get something better. I am planning to donate it to a local pet shelter since it won't be worth much of anything for a trade in with the state it's currently in.

I know my insurance will go up quite a bit since I don't have comprehensive insurance on my current car. I figured it was worth so little that I didn't want to go that route. I will definitely have to go that route with a newer vehicle though and I'm sure it's required if you have an auto loan to pay for it.

Anyway, not how I hoped things would go but oh well, what can you do.

Congrats on the new car, @dayvewc!!
 
Buying a new car is, well, it's just not a fiscally sound usage of money for two reasons:

  1. The vehicle depreciates 20-30% in value immediately the moment you own it - that money is then instantly gone forever, never to be returned
  2. A new vehicle increases your insurance significantly, and as a double whammy, if you're paying installments, you require full coverage (same for used if you make payments on that)

Do what you want of course, but realize that salespeople make a lot of money convincing people that a new car is the way to go, when it most assuredly is not. There are other options, like purchasing a pre-owned vehicle from a reputable source (dealer) with possible warranties.

At the end of the day, buying a new car is not unlike a treat. Can you afford the treat? Great. If you can't, then you really shouldn't get the treat.
 
I'm looking to get a used Rav4 with around 40k miles. The Toyota dealership sells certified pre-owned ones. Also going to look into Costco's car buying program. Checking into loans option next week. This will be the first car I've ever had a loan for - my current car was purchased right out of college and cost $7,500. A great deal for how many years it lasted me with minimal issues! My parents helped with it and I paid them back the remainder so no loan at all on it. I'm not looking forward to the process...
 
Buying a new car is, well, it's just not a fiscally sound usage of money for two reasons:

  1. The vehicle depreciates 20-30% in value immediately the moment you own it - that money is then instantly gone forever, never to be returned
  2. A new vehicle increases your insurance significantly, and as a double whammy, if you're paying installments, you require full coverage (same for used if you make payments on that)

Do what you want of course, but realize that salespeople make a lot of money convincing people that a new car is the way to go, when it most assuredly is not. There are other options, like purchasing a pre-owned vehicle from a reputable source (dealer) with possible warranties.

At the end of the day, buying a new car is not unlike a treat. Can you afford the treat? Great. If you can't, then you really shouldn't get the treat.

I considered both of those options. The insurance increased by about $150 every 6 months. I guess when i was checking it last night i used the wrong package options. All in all, I can live with that.

The depreciation is off the MSRP, and it was already discounted 30%, so I'm thinking that's a wash.

Looking at quality used cars, I was going to need a loan equal to what i got on this one, so it came down to the financing. I could get better terms on the new car than a used car.

Are there cars available that might have been a better choice? Probably. But am I unhappy with what I opted? Not in the first 2 hours. :). Plus it has built in wifi!

If it had a bathroom, I'd never have to leave it. :duck:

I'm looking to get a used Rav4 with around 40k miles. The Toyota dealership sells certified pre-owned ones. Also going to look into Costco's car buying program. Checking into loans option next week. This will be the first car I've ever had a loan for - my current car was purchased right out of college and cost $7,500. A great deal for how many years it lasted me with minimal issues! My parents helped with it and I paid them back the remainder so no loan at all on it. I'm not looking forward to the process...

Car loans are a pain, but not as bad as they sometimes are made it to be. Just make sure you are happy with the car first or you'll feel irritated every month when you make the payment.
 
I'm looking to get a used Rav4 with around 40k miles. The Toyota dealership sells certified pre-owned ones. Also going to look into Costco's car buying program. Checking into loans option next week. This will be the first car I've ever had a loan for - my current car was purchased right out of college and cost $7,500. A great deal for how many years it lasted me with minimal issues! My parents helped with it and I paid them back the remainder so no loan at all on it. I'm not looking forward to the process...

We did this for ds19's car. It's 3 yrs old and had only 26k miles. The interior was immaculate and the exterior has one tiny scratch on the passenger side door. It was $12,900 and sticker price on brand new ones were just under $20k. I realize they usually knock a bit off the sticker price but I doubt it would be $7k worth in discounts.
We carry full coverage anyway because even though my minivan is a 2006 Sienna, it's still valued around $8k.

Dayvewc, compare apples to apples. Look at 2016 Encore compared to one 2-3 years old. Most dealerships have many barely used cars that were end of lease returns.
You could save a LOT and your car payment would be a little easier to swallow.

That stinks you guys have property taxes on your cars. I guess our property taxes on our house don't look so bad now. lol. They are high but we really don't get charged for anything else except sales tax (not on food or clothes) and our annual car registration which is around $40-80 depending on vehicle weight. This includes free state inspection w/sticker.
 
After doing some more research, it looks like my DTI (debt to income) may be a tad high for a good auto loan. I may just have to put the money into repairs for now until I can knock more debt down. Sigh.
 
After doing some more research, it looks like my DTI (debt to income) may be a tad high for a good auto loan. I may just have to put the money into repairs for now until I can knock more debt down. Sigh.

I'm very fortunate that DH can handle practically any repair. He's even put new motors in some of our vehicles (and many of our friends!). His current truck is 18 years old, and my suv is 8.5 with 200k miles. But, even with him being as competent as he is, he is quick to want a new vehicle for me if it becomes really unreliable, it's just not worth being stranded repeatedly (I usually have the kids with me).

So, you may want to consider diverting a good chunk of your debt repayment money to car savings; you can even re-name it "debt prevention," if that helps you to feel better about it! In the end, it will be the same effect because you won't take on any or as much debt getting a new used car, and you'll be guaranteed to have enough for something in case of emergency. And if you have cash, you could get a used car from an individual maybe for a better deal.

The people I work with (my clients) are destitute. Most of them have never owned a car, but those who do typically will buy something for $500-1000, and they just get "new" ones every year or so. I'm glad we don't have to do that, but that's just a few car payments, so buying much less than you'd like can be financially beneficial while you're working to get to a better place financially!
 
So, you may want to consider diverting a good chunk of your debt repayment money to car savings; you can even re-name it "debt prevention," if that helps you to feel better about it! In the end, it will be the same effect because you won't take on any or as much debt getting a new used car, and you'll be guaranteed to have enough for something in case of emergency. And if you have cash, you could get a used car from an individual maybe for a better deal.

I've thought of that but I would likely need to save the full price of a used vehicle if I'm not paying my debt down significantly. My debt to income ratio is otherwise too high from the research I've done. Most of that is in rent since I live in an expensive city. I can't do anything about that though. My rent is actually cheaper than anything else I've seen in this area. It is considered a monthly debt though so I'm kind of screwed.

I'm planning to take a half day off from work tomorrow to take it in. I'd rather put $1,000 into repairing it than buying some beater car and having no clue when it might break down on me. Same goes for buying a car from an individual. Unless I know that person, I wouldn't want to do that. Too many dishonest people out there. I'd rather get one that is certified by a dealership for peace of mind. My car has been reliable for 15 years, and hopefully it won't take 1k to fix it but we'll see. By next spring I should be in a much better position to purchase the car I want.
 
I've thought of that but I would likely need to save the full price of a used vehicle if I'm not paying my debt down significantly. My debt to income ratio is otherwise too high from the research I've done. Most of that is in rent since I live in an expensive city. I can't do anything about that though. My rent is actually cheaper than anything else I've seen in this area. It is considered a monthly debt though so I'm kind of screwed.

I'm planning to take a half day off from work tomorrow to take it in. I'd rather put $1,000 into repairing it than buying some beater car and having no clue when it might break down on me. Same goes for buying a car from an individual. Unless I know that person, I wouldn't want to do that. Too many dishonest people out there. I'd rather get one that is certified by a dealership for peace of mind. My car has been reliable for 15 years, and hopefully it won't take 1k to fix it but we'll see. By next spring I should be in a much better position to purchase the car I want.


I personally would rather have to put a $1000 on my car than start agin with a car payment. Last year I didn't have to put any money into my car - this year I had to put in $300 for a starter and there are some other things I need done but if I had to put a $1000 a year in it - that would be equivalent to $84 a month and there is no car payment that low!!
 
I personally would rather have to put a $1000 on my car than start agin with a car payment. Last year I didn't have to put any money into my car - this year I had to put in $300 for a starter and there are some other things I need done but if I had to put a $1000 a year in it - that would be equivalent to $84 a month and there is no car payment that low!!

Very good point! Also, my insurance will go up along with my property tax on a new vehicle so I really need to wait until I have a good chunk of debt paid off before I add those expenses. I have been very spoiled with my car. Just regular maintenance expenses and I replaced the starter for $300 or so a few years ago. It's just hard to want to put money into what could be more expensive repairs, but you are completely right about that being cheaper than a car payment! If my current car was meeting my needs in terms of cargo space for bringing my dog places, I would likely keep it until it reached 200k miles or more like my parents have done with their vehicles.
 
I've thought of that but I would likely need to save the full price of a used vehicle if I'm not paying my debt down significantly. My debt to income ratio is otherwise too high from the research I've done. Most of that is in rent since I live in an expensive city. I can't do anything about that though. My rent is actually cheaper than anything else I've seen in this area. It is considered a monthly debt though so I'm kind of screwed.

I'm planning to take a half day off from work tomorrow to take it in. I'd rather put $1,000 into repairing it than buying some beater car and having no clue when it might break down on me. Same goes for buying a car from an individual. Unless I know that person, I wouldn't want to do that. Too many dishonest people out there. I'd rather get one that is certified by a dealership for peace of mind. My car has been reliable for 15 years, and hopefully it won't take 1k to fix it but we'll see. By next spring I should be in a much better position to purchase the car I want.
I've learned you can't even trust the certified dealership cars! We bought a BMW X5, very low mileage, one owner, newer model from a dealership. When we went to trade it in, come to find out it had been in 2 accidents with front end damage. Of course, the BMW dealership never mentioned that little nugget. And we kept wondering why we needed front-end alignments so frequently. From now, we are sticking to new.
 
I've learned you can't even trust the certified dealership cars! We bought a BMW X5, very low mileage, one owner, newer model from a dealership. When we went to trade it in, come to find out it had been in 2 accidents with front end damage. Of course, the BMW dealership never mentioned that little nugget. And we kept wondering why we needed front-end alignments so frequently. From now, we are sticking to new.

Oh no! Yeah, I guess you really can't trust anyone. I don't think I'll be getting a brand new car though. My current car was a year old when I got it and had actually been a rental car prior to that. It has been an extremely good car - if only it had more than two doors and cargo space! Right now it is a comedy show getting my 90 lb dog in and out of it.
 
I've learned you can't even trust the certified dealership cars! We bought a BMW X5, very low mileage, one owner, newer model from a dealership. When we went to trade it in, come to find out it had been in 2 accidents with front end damage. Of course, the BMW dealership never mentioned that little nugget. And we kept wondering why we needed front-end alignments so frequently. From now, we are sticking to new.


That's true but remember even new cars can have problems. I bought mine brand new and the first couple years was nothing but problems! And even if it's covered under warranty it's still a hassle to keep having to take it to the shop for maintenance issues.
 
We did this for ds19's car. It's 3 yrs old and had only 26k miles. The interior was immaculate and the exterior has one tiny scratch on the passenger side door. It was $12,900 and sticker price on brand new ones were just under $20k. I realize they usually knock a bit off the sticker price but I doubt it would be $7k worth in discounts.

I did that with the first car I bought. Way back in the early 90's, I got a car that was a bank repossession. I don't remember how many miles it had on it, but it wasn't many. I do remember that it was only 6 months off the car lot and the cost was significantly less than buying a new one. One advantage of growing up in a small town, the president of one of the local banks went to our church, so the parents let him know we were looking to get a car for me to go to college and he told them that the bank was in the process of reclaiming the car. Worked out nice for me, but I always kind of wondered about the person that couldn't keep it.

We carry full coverage anyway because even though my minivan is a 2006 Sienna, it's still valued around $8k.

I always carry full coverage since the late 90's when my Jeep Wrangler died from mechanical issues. Having to come up with money for a replacement vehicle with little warning convinced me it was worth keeping full coverage. I may not get much from the insurance, but at least I'd get enough for a down payment. (Like this time).

I realize they usually knock a bit off the sticker price but I doubt it would be $7k worth in discounts.

Dayvewc, compare apples to apples. Look at 2016 Encore compared to one 2-3 years old. Most dealerships have many barely used cars that were end of lease returns.
You could save a LOT and your car payment would be a little easier to swallow.

You might be surprised. The sticker price on my Encore was $25k and they came down to $16k before I paid my downpayment.

I actually did compare apples to oranges, as well as Granny Smith Apples to Red Delicious, and even plain apples to apples.
The dealerships that had cars in my price range to pay cash, all of them were 8 year old or older, with 170k miles or higher. Most of them were 10 years old or older, and with more than 200k miles to begin with.

When I was looking at fleet and end-of-lease vehicles, the prices went up to $12k minimum, and even those had more than 40k miles on them and they wouldn't go past 54 months on the financing.

The next bracket started at $15k and had 30k miles or less, and were 2014 and 2015 models, but the initial sticker price was significantly less than the MSRP on the Encore.

Comparing Encores specifically, the least expensive one I was able to find was $19,800, and was a 2014 model with 35k miles.

So, what I saw was I could
1) pay cash for a clunker and accept that I'm going to keep paying maintenance for a while on something that probably won't be worth a lot.
2) Accept that I was going to have to finance, and either A) finance a little less money for less time or B) finance more money for longer, both options which came out to really close to the same payment (All of them were between $250 and $300 per month).
3) get a slightly used car that was initially worth less and pay a higher monthly rate
4) get a slightly used car with comparable initial value and finance a higher amount
5) get a brand new car and finance a lower amount for a longer time.

I'm not saying that there wasn't a better deal out there, but in the immediacy of having 4 days to find a replacement car, I feel like I got a good deal.

One of the things that limited the available pool of acceptable cars is the fact that I drive between 800 and 1000 miles every week. So, any car that wasn't rated at 30 mpg or higher I did not even consider. When I first got to the dealer, they showed me a nice used car that actually was cheaper than what I financed, with relatively low mileage, but with an estimated mpg of 18. My little Vibe was getting 35-36 mpg and I was paying between $200 and $250 a month in gas. So, if I cut the mileage in half, that doubles the cost of gas, and adding $200 to $250 a month in gas is almost a complete car payment in itself.

That stinks you guys have property taxes on your cars. I guess our property taxes on our house don't look so bad now. lol. They are high but we really don't get charged for anything else except sales tax (not on food or clothes) and our annual car registration which is around $40-80 depending on vehicle weight. This includes free state inspection w/sticker.

Yeah, I have lived in 3 or 4 states in my life. Some of them didn't have property taxes, but had high sales taxes. Some had low sales tax, or no sales tax on food and clothes (or even no sales tax at all) but had high property taxes. One had property tax on housing, but not cars, but had high registration taxes on them. It seems like in general, the taxes I paid were fairly consistent across the years, it was just a matter of where, when, and under what reason it was collected. That being said, I've never lived directly in a major metropolitan area, though I did spend 15 months close to Minneapolis/St. Paul. (About 30 miles south of the Mississippi creek. It's not a full river up there :rotfl2:)

I've learned you can't even trust the certified dealership cars! We bought a BMW X5, very low mileage, one owner, newer model from a dealership. When we went to trade it in, come to find out it had been in 2 accidents with front end damage. Of course, the BMW dealership never mentioned that little nugget. And we kept wondering why we needed front-end alignments so frequently. From now, we are sticking to new.

All I can say is "See the CarFax"! And if they don't have one, or won't show it, move on.

That's true but remember even new cars can have problems. I bought mine brand new and the first couple years was nothing but problems! And even if it's covered under warranty it's still a hassle to keep having to take it to the shop for maintenance issues.

I don't know about other states, but here in Arkansas, we have a "lemon law". If a new car has to go back for mechanical repairs more than 3 (?) times in the first year (maybe 18 months), or the total repairs are more than a set percentage of the initial value of the car, the dealer is required to replace it with a different car or refund the amount paid. That does not include repairs for accidents or normal wear and tear. But if it consistently has issues, then there is a resolution available. I have never had to deal with it, but I had a friend in college that got a brand new truck for high school graduation, and before the summer was over it had been in the shop for transmission problems a couple of times and it seems like it also had an engine problem. He wound up with a year newer model for the same payment.
 












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