Debt Advice Desperately Needed....Please!

[bellebud]

op - i hope you're taking to heart what everyone here is saying.

i know you have a degree in accounting, but with what you described your lives were like before losing the jobs, my mom who was a school bus driver and house cleaner her whole life is better with money than you or your dh are. I'm not meaning this as an insult in any way - we all have things we're good at in life, and things we need outside help with. if you guys have dvc but didn't have money left at the end of the month for savings, you weren't doing things right to begin with. You should have never, ever, ever owned dvc to begin with. I'm only trying to open your eyes so you start to make the right decisions starting today (not after your proposed trip - which seems to be along the same train of thought that got you into this horrible position in the first place).

there has been some wonderful, helpful advice on this thread. it seems you're open to listening. go to sites like clark howard dot com, and listen to dave ramsey. realize how your priorities were never right, so you don't make the same mistakes again.

anyone can lose their job - that is certainly not yours or your dh's fault. but you had the luxury of dvc's, but had no savings. the job loss isn't what put you in the terrible prediciment you're in now, your money managing is what did that.

i really wish you the best!

 

[Princess April]

Just wanted to pop in, say hello, and share some of my story. I do not have a degree in accounting, but rather an MBA. However, all of my experience seems to be in accounting. I have worked with several temp agencies for the past three years. I have not had an assignment since October. Many, many companies here in NC have had cuts or hiring freezes even through the tax season (although my experience is not in taxes). Prior to my children starting school, I delivered newspapers for three years. It was actually a very good job, and didn't take too long for my ego to heal. I averaged $25/hour for 13 hours of work per week. I would seek this now, but it is rough on a vehicle and the elbow. Things are getting tight....who am I kidding, they are tight. I swallowed my pride and applied at two grocery stores and Wal-Mart, yet I have heard nothing from them. I have sent out resumes, but have yet to even get an interview. It really works on the self esteem. I'm not sure if I'm contributing anything positive here, but wanted to tell the OP, you're not alone. My DH owns his business, so he has to rely on customers paying their bills before he can pay himself. DH has also applied for a 3rd shift stock position, but no response yet.

I apologize for the random thoughts running together in the previous paragraph.

Hey, I totally understand where you are coming from but don't forget that some of the jobs (that you had to swallow your pride for to apply to) aren't that bad... my DH works for a grocery store and makes 100K a year.. just sayin'

 

[snowbunny]

What is wrong with one last big meal? One last drink? One last pull on the one-armed bandit? One last cigarette? One last vacation? There always has to be a "one last" of something that you are giving up.

This is not directed at the OP exactly, but to answer your question. When an addict says, the next one will be one last _________, it's not over. When the addict says, the last one was the last, then recovery can begin.

 

[Princess April]

Oh yea... OP I would be interested in hearing about your progress.... (personally I think I should call it success) because I have a feeling that you are going to put your nose to the grind stone and come up a winner. I know that it will take time, and things will be rough for a while, but Rome wasn't built in a day! Take care and God Bless!!!!

 

[sorul82?]

Hey, I totally understand where you are coming from but don't forget that some of the jobs (that you had to swallow your pride for to apply to) aren't that bad... my DH works for a grocery store and makes 100K a year.. just sayin'

Is he a manager? I didn't mean to sound as if I was knocking any position. I'm a roll up my sleeves and get the work done kind of person. As soon as my veggies are ready, I'll be the lady on the road side with the cardboard sign that says "fresh produce." Some of us are past the cushy desk jobs and it's time to do what it takes. I live by the "things happen for a reason" saying and the truth is, I hate sitting behind a desk....it's just not me and my big rear can vouch for that! I do actually love retail, I love being outside, I love getting my hands dirty and I love money, I love to spend it, and don't mind working hard to get it.

 

[crisi]

This is not directed at the OP exactly, but to answer your question. When an addict says, the next one will be one last _________, it's not over. When the addict says, the last one was the last, then recovery can begin.

Addicts are also a lot less successful when they indulge in a "last one" instead of saying "I'm done." Not that it can't be done, but the mindset of "one last one" is far less conducive towards recovery. Its the same sort of mindset that leads to "well, I have to toast my sister's wedding" or "it was just a really bad day, one beer won't hurt to help me relax." Addicts generally can't handle that, they have to quit cold turkey - and justifications for "one" are very dangerous.

The day may come when the OP can be financially responsible, but starting her new life with one final indulgence by saying "it won't cost that much" (because it ISN'T free - at the very least there is gas) isn't setting her up for optimal success. And I hope she is successful.

The OP has spent a lot of years indulging in what people in the recovery community call "stinkin thinkin" - in her case "we make a lot of money, we could afford all those DVC points - besides, with five kids we NEED a two bedroom." Without at all matching up the "we can pay all the bills, but can't afford to save" part of the equation. Its going to take a long time before the habits and thought patterns of "I want, I buy" are broken.

We've had a lot of discussions around here in the past about how "well, if you make a lot of money, its easy....." You know what, its easy to do exactly what the OP did and say "we make a lot of money, we can afford....." Then when you don't make a lot of money, you now have the house payment, credit card bills, car payments, and lifestyle of "we make a lot of money." If those that make few dollars and live frugally can be thankful for their lack of abundance, be grateful that when you need to stretch your dollars, the distance between getting buy with almost nothing and getting by with even less is a lot less than what the OP faces.



Disclaimer: my sister is an alcoholic in recovery. She was also a spender who made $150,000 a year and lost everything trying to maintain her life after she lost her job and now makes minimum wage and works two jobs and lives in the lowest cost of living place she can manage.

 

[robinb]

This is not directed at the OP exactly, but to answer your question. When an addict says, the next one will be one last _________, it's not over. When the addict says, the last one was the last, then recovery can begin.

I get what you're saying but don't you think the "last one" was a "next one"? I hope for the OP's sake this trip will be the "last one" until they can pay with cash. I am usually not one to encourage trips or upgrades people can't afford, but in this case I don't see the harm. Especially when all her other trips were cancelled. It shows a movement in the right direction.

 

[snowbunny]

I get what you're saying but don't you think the "last one" was a "next one"?

Yes sure, afterward. But as long as "just one more" is on a person's lips, recovery hasn't truly begun yet. Again I am speaking generally here.

 

[Debbie Jean]

I get what you're saying but don't you think the "last one" was a "next one"? I hope for the OP's sake this trip will be the "last one" until they can pay with cash. I am usually not one to encourage trips or upgrades people can't afford, but in this case I don't see the harm. Especially when all her other trips were cancelled. It shows a movement in the right direction.

I agree with this as well as your previous post Also, OP has begun the process of listing her contracts and has a game plan for when she returns home.

Well done, FriskyKitten! Best of luck with selling your contracts. I actually bought through Jason at the Timeshare Store and it was a very easy and efficient experience. I hope your contracts sell quickly at a great price!

 

[Princess April]

Is he a manager? I didn't mean to sound as if I was knocking any position. I'm a roll up my sleeves and get the work done kind of person. As soon as my veggies are ready, I'll be the lady on the road side with the cardboard sign that says "fresh produce." Some of us are past the cushy desk jobs and it's time to do what it takes. I live by the "things happen for a reason" saying and the truth is, I hate sitting behind a desk....it's just not me and my big rear can vouch for that! I do actually love retail, I love being outside, I love getting my hands dirty and I love money, I love to spend it, and don't mind working hard to get it.

Yes, he is a manager.. a very hard working department manager! ... I also work for a grocery store (I'm an administrative coordinator) . I don't make as much as he does (okay, I make less than 1/2 he does ), and we both started out the same way... at the bottom . I totally understood what you were saying, not that you were putting down anyone in the retail service industry, but you were used to "different" work and and that point you were willing to do what it took to "get 'er done". That would be like me saying... I'd clean toilets to feed my DD. Does that mean I think any less of my maid as a person because that's what she does? Heck no!!! I love that woman , I wish I had 1/2 the energy that she has!
Funny thing, one of the reasons that DH and I chose the grocery industry is because it's almost recession proof. I understand that there is no such thing as 100% recession proof, but as we say "people have to eat!". I would urge anyone that is unfortunate enough to have lost a job to look "outside the box" as many have mentioned before. When you hear about working in a grocery store you may think of cashiers and stock clerks. True that is most likely where you will start, but, like anything else in life, if you apply yourself you'd be amazed where you can go.

 

[dvcgirl]

We have friends watching the dogs as a return favor for them.

Alright, I am really tired now and wanted to update this one last time before I, hopefully, leave this thread to die a not so peaceful death. I just talked to a resale broker and my DH is faxing the documents to them now to get the ball rolling on selling the DVC contracts. They will supposedly list it as soon as they confirm our information. Thank you to those who gave me suggestions on what resellers to use. I was actually surprised that I was able to talk to someone about this on Memorial Day but that is all the better as we can start this even sooner than I thought. Now I need to get moving on the other things and hope that the DVC sells sooner rather than later.

I will keep those who asked in the loop as to how we do from here. It is a relief to actually be dealing with it now but I am also feeling quite drained. Thank you one and all for the advice, support and even the spankings. I needed all of it. And now I am out of here to deal with our problems instead of just talking about them.

It's always a relief to get started, no matter what the goal. I think it's one of the hardest things to do actually.

And I have to hand it to you for hanging in here so long.

I agree with others on the suggestion to look into Dave Ramsey. He's a good motivator in helping people get out of debt. I listen to his show just for the entertainment and I haven't any debt at all in a long, long time. You'll hear him dish out some "wet noodle advice" on his show. And on Fridays you'll hear people call in and tell amazing tales about how they paid off thousands and thousands of dollars in debt. If they can do it....so can you.

 

[sorul82?]

Yes, he is a manager.. a very hard working department manager! ... I also work for a grocery store (I'm an administrative coordinator) . I don't make as much as he does (okay, I make less than 1/2 he does ), and we both started out the same way... at the bottom . I totally understood what you were saying, not that you were putting down anyone in the retail service industry, but you were used to "different" work and and that point you were willing to do what it took to "get 'er done". That would be like me saying... I'd clean toilets to feed my DD. Does that mean I think any less of my maid as a person because that's what she does? Heck no!!! I love that woman , I wish I had 1/2 the energy that she has!
Funny thing, one of the reasons that DH and I chose the grocery industry is because it's almost recession proof. I understand that there is no such thing as 100% recession proof, but as we say "people have to eat!". I would urge anyone that is unfortunate enough to have lost a job to look "outside the box" as many have mentioned before. When you hear about working in a grocery store you may think of cashiers and stock clerks. True that is most likely where you will start, but, like anything else in life, if you apply yourself you'd be amazed where you can go.

Thank you! And yes, I applied for the cashier and stock positions as well. I just want to work: I need to have busy hands, I need to have a reason to get out of bed and shower everyday, I just need to have a place to be.

 

[sk!mom]

In addition, I don't think that saying things like "I'm so opposed to debt that it makes me ill to even think about it." really helps the OP at all. It's just you tooting your own "debt free" horn again so we call all bow to your financial greatness .

Wow! Are you serious?

 

[MrsPete]

Yes, the country has gone mad. I recognize many posters in this thread who have been around here for years. During the "boom years" many of us were saying that the "keeping up with the Joneses" was going to doom our country in the not-so-distant future. We're seeing that play out now.

I have to agree. Many people were caught up in the idea that "everyone else has ____", so why shouldn't I? Others fell into the "if I couldn't afford it, they wouldn't be lending it to me" trap. We've been hearing many variations of these themes:

I know we shouldn't charge this Disney vacation, but the kids are at such a magical age.
The house is over our budget, but we need that at-home office, and with the pool in our backyard we won't spend so much on summer entertainment.
I know we spend too much on entertainment and eating out, but since we only have the kids every other weekend we feel that we have to do something nice.
There's no problem with pulling money out of our 401Ks -- we have plenty of years to build up our retirement funds again.
Everyone has credit card debt (or a car payment, or a mortgage).

We've heard these rationalizations (and more). Living on the financial edge has never been a good idea, but I think the OP is realizing that -- how about everyone else who's doing the same thing? Are those of you who are throwing rocks using some of these same excuses?

For some idea of what its like to eat for $1 a day: http://onedollardietproject.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/it-starts-today/

Interesting web site. I ate that way in college, and I lived to tell the tale -- and I could do it with less repetition; specifically, I didn't eat beans and rice EVERY SINGLE DAY. It's obvious that these two didn't have great cooking skills. Some of my family's meals today resemble these ultra-cheap meals, BUT we don't eat them three times a day, every day.

Even if the trip only costs you a tank of gas, what is that, about $30? I'm guessing you drive a minivan or SUV with five kids and dogs - it costs me about $30 to fill up my van. When your food budget is only $50 per week, why would you spend $30 on gas when you could spend it on rice, beans, and canned vegetables? How many more days will you keep electricity for $30? If things were as dire for me as you have presented them here, I would either be spending that $30 to stock my pantry or to send to my mortgage company in an attempt to convince them that it was important to me to keep my home and that any extra money would be sent to them.

I understand where you're coming from, BUT at the same time, if I were in the OP's shoes and I saw everything slipping away, I would have a hard time justifying "throwing away" the value of the vacation lodging. So is there a way to recoup that? How about offering the room to a friend who'd pay you a portion of what it's worth? Cash in hand would be pretty valuable right now.

I actually agree with your analogy ... but what is so wrong with that? What is wrong with one last big meal? One last drink? One last pull on the one-armed bandit? One last cigarette? One last vacation? There always has to be a "one last" of something that you are giving up.

It prolongs the agony and digs the hole just a little bit deeper -- and that "one last" isn't going to be enjoyable anyway. It'd be like eating a big buffet meal just before going on a strict diet. The food wouldn't taste nearly as good because you'd be thinking, "I'm going to have to run 10 miles to work off these calories."

i know you have a degree in accounting, but with what you described your lives were like before losing the jobs, my mom who was a school bus driver and house cleaner her whole life is better with money than you or your dh are.

Being an accountant doesn't automatically mean one's good at personal finance. My dad was a CPA, and he was HORRIBLE with his own personal money. The idea that you can't spend more than you earn just didn't seem real to him.

 

[MrsPete]

Yes, he is a manager.. a very hard working department manager! ... I also work for a grocery store (I'm an administrative coordinator) . I don't make as much as he does (okay, I make less than 1/2 he does ), and we both started out the same way... at the bottom

This makes me think of a story: My same-aged cousin and I both graduated from high school and started college. I finished college, but she only stayed one semester. She had worked for a fast-food place since she was 15, and she quit college because they offered her a manager job. I thought she was absolutely nuts to do this, but by the time I'd finished college and was 5 years into my first job (still a newbie), she was just moving up to the regional office. Now she has 25 years in with the company -- considerably more than I have in at my job -- and she quit to be a stay at home mom.

She is, of course, the exception to the rule: She has done VERY well for herself without a college degree (and she married well too). But she has worked her fingers to the bone for every penny. From a physical stand point and an hours-on-the-job standpoint, she's worked far harder than I have. If I could go back in time, I would still take the route I've chosen, but she HAS done well starting from the bottom in a lowly job. A person could do worse.

 

[M5ward]

Wow! Finally managed to read through the whole thread. I just have one question to ask the OP: Are you related to Boxofrain?

 

[DVCBELLE]

Wow! Finally managed to read through the whole thread. I just have one question to ask the OP: Are you related to Boxofrain?

That is hilarious!! Wonder what ever happened there!

 

[MoniqueU]

I have to agree. Many people were caught up in the idea that "everyone else has ____", so why shouldn't I? Others fell into the "if I couldn't afford it, they wouldn't be lending it to me" trap. We've been hearing many variations of these themes:

I know we shouldn't charge this Disney vacation, but the kids are at such a magical age.
The house is over our budget, but we need that at-home office, and with the pool in our backyard we won't spend so much on summer entertainment.
I know we spend too much on entertainment and eating out, but since we only have the kids every other weekend we feel that we have to do something nice.
There's no problem with pulling money out of our 401Ks -- we have plenty of years to build up our retirement funds again.
Everyone has credit card debt (or a car payment, or a mortgage).

We've heard these rationalizations (and more). Living on the financial edge has never been a good idea, but I think the OP is realizing that -- how about everyone else who's doing the same thing? Are those of you who are throwing rocks using some of these same excuses?Interesting web site. I ate that way in college, and I lived to tell the tale -- and I could do it with less repetition; specifically, I didn't eat beans and rice EVERY SINGLE DAY. It's obvious that these two didn't have great cooking skills. Some of my family's meals today resemble these ultra-cheap meals, BUT we don't eat them three times a day, every day. I understand where you're coming from, BUT at the same time, if I were in the OP's shoes and I saw everything slipping away, I would have a hard time justifying "throwing away" the value of the vacation lodging. So is there a way to recoup that? How about offering the room to a friend who'd pay you a portion of what it's worth? Cash in hand would be pretty valuable right now. It prolongs the agony and digs the hole just a little bit deeper -- and that "one last" isn't going to be enjoyable anyway. It'd be like eating a big buffet meal just before going on a strict diet. The food wouldn't taste nearly as good because you'd be thinking, "I'm going to have to run 10 miles to work off these calories." Being an accountant doesn't automatically mean one's good at personal finance. My dad was a CPA, and he was HORRIBLE with his own personal money. The idea that you can't spend more than you earn just didn't seem real to him.

I have to say this thread has both scared me and inspired me to TRY to do better at spending and paying our bills or at least being in control of it more. I don't see well so have foisted off alot of the bill paying on my mom who lives with us as well as the grocery shopping because I get super bad anxiety attacks when I go shopping even for groceries. But I am not happy with how our budget is going and what she spends at the grocery store and how she pots off paying bills til there is no money left to pay them. Not knocking my mom she is doing the best she can and I imagine it is stressful on her just like I havent been able to cope with the huge whole I have dug for my family because I don't know how to say no to anyone about anything. I think I will start putting in some more input on what bills need to be paid when and at least attempting to go to the store and see how I do. I used to spend most of sunday morning shopping with coupons when I could drive and my sight was better. There are some things that my family won't compromise on eating such as on the grocery budget thread it was suggested to make our own waffles and freeze them. Well we like eggos and wouldn't eat homemade ones and the eggos have been helping me lose weight so I am sticking with them. But we can switch brands to what is on sale and what we have a coupon for and do our best to cut where we can. I hosted a memorial day party for my DD today and rather then spenind 25 bucks for each for 2 supersized flying saucer pizzas soneone told me about the 5 dollar little caesars pizzas and I got 6 of those for just a bit more then I would of paid for one of the pizzas. I wasn't happy with the cost of fruits and veggies for the party but I saved what I could. If I can keep finding ways to save I will at least feel better about where we are at then I do right now. I know I need to put on my big girl panties and suck it up and get through the anxiety and back to couponing.

I may go on vacation this year using my moms timeshare but that isn't a definet thing and won't involve any entertaiment expenses just gas and food which is cheaper in AZ. Our last big family vacation was to beaches turks and caicos paid for on credit that is now going to haunt me for 7 or 10 years or more. This vacation would cost me some gas and grocery money that I owuld already have to spend (not the gas) but would be paid for with my visa debit card. I am sure I will have just as musch fun either way.

Like I said this thread has both scared and motivated me at the same time. Hopefully things will settle down for us once I take some power back over our fiances myself.

To the op I hope you find a way to pay your utilities and feed your kids. Facing that challenge must be demoralizing. We are just one job loss form being in the same boat. That's why I need to get a handle on things.

 

[crisi]

Interesting web site. I ate that way in college, and I lived to tell the tale -- and I could do it with less repetition; specifically, I didn't eat beans and rice EVERY SINGLE DAY. It's obvious that these two didn't have great cooking skills. Some of my family's meals today resemble these ultra-cheap meals, BUT we don't eat them three times a day, every day.

They have an added complexity - they are vegan. So they started with a "rice and beans" as staple diet. And I think that they decided to give this a try having never really thought it out or lived with a grocery budget.

It did take them two or three weeks to figure out the benefits of a pot of soup though.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Wow! Finally managed to read through the whole thread. I just have one question to ask the OP: Are you related to Boxofrain?

That thought crossed my mind too, more than once while reading this thread. Very similar writing style, tone, and attitude.