Debt Advice Desperately Needed....Please!

[dvcgirl]

This was even worse than just "keeping up with the Jones" but the mentality that you do not need to save and as long as you can make your minimum payments you are in a great financial position.

Very true. The "minimum payment mentality" had too many takers in this country. Some of us here are exactly the opposite. I'm so opposed to debt that it makes me ill to even think about it. I can't for the life of me imagine making payments on a DVC purchase at 10% interest or more. Disney is no different than any other marketing machine out there selling this idea that if you can afford the payment....you can afford the item.

Anyone living on the edge....with no emergency fund and serious levels of consumer debt.....this post should be a big wake-up call.

 

[dvcgirl]

I think Op isn't going to change anything by NOT going on the trip in 4 days- don't you lose your points if they're canceled that close to the date of travel?
I understand "change your way of thinking" but wouldn't the points be lost no matter the choice,actually losing even more $$$ than if they just got used as is?
It sounds like a situation that isn't going to pull them back from the brink no matter what they do at this point. Correct me if I'm missing something here....
*I would go,and I'm extremely careful with my money.... * as I see it,OP already spent the $$$$ for this,and can't get it back,the points will be lost,and she intends to do it cheap,like at home! what else is there?
She knows the contracts are to be sold asap,so the points are gone. As far as I know about points,and resales,those things take enough time that any points left in 'holding' would end up useless anyway to the new purchasers.
She's not filing bankruptcy,and is trying to be honorable,and dig her family out,she asked for some advice,that means advice,not a beating.....

Yeah, but how do really *enjoy* a trip like this. I'd be a wreck. It's sort of like going to an all-you-can-eat buffet when you weigh 400 lbs and you plan to start that diet tomorrow.

I guess there's something to the idea of keeping the illusion that everything is okay alive for the kids. But it might be a pretty good life lesson for them too. Sit them down...."Kids, I know you've been looking forward to this trip, but we really can't afford it right now. Dad's not making as much as he used to and as you know, I'm not making any money right now. We need to re-set our family's priorities....and right now, a vacation to Disney is at the very bottom of the list."

 

[surfgirl]

This thread has turned into an *interesting* discussion of what is sunk cost vs. incedentals (sp?) especially with regard to vacations.

Again, to re-iterate, I feel bad for the OP. They've made some bad decisions and had some bad luck and I don't wish that on anyone.

There are many who say, 'take the last vacation... its basically free. Enjoy it while you can.' Others believe that the time to face the hard reality is now.

My thoughts: the "its the last time, I'll just do it this ONCE mentality" continues the addiction. In this case, the addiction is spending above your income. You are in real danger of losing everything.

I, personally, have a hard time believing that you will truly spend $0 on vacation. Want to make me a believer ? Don't take any money. Spend those gift cards on food and carry $20 cash. Are those gift cards able to be used ONLY at Disney ? Come home with $20 cash. prove us all wrong. The people that can spend $0 on vacation are incredibly disciplined and have it down to a science. Heading down the "this is our last vacation" spiral will continue... "oh, let's order room service... its the last time", or "let's eat at the Castle, its our last time" ... or "let's get overpriced ice cream, popcorn, etc etc... its the last time". Change your mindset - make the previous time your last time. This is your first time to plan for a better future ... so your kids have a college education.

I'm not trying to beat you down, I'm trying to pump you up. You've been given a big challenge. Show us the stuff you are made of and come out the other end stronger.

I would raid the 401k etc. to get that debt paid down. I know many recommend against it since those can't be touched in case of bankruptcy, but I've heard you claim again and again that you will pay your debt. In my mind, you are not viewing bankruptcy as a viable alternative. I applaud you and thank you for that and hope you really mean it. If you truly don't think that is an option, then I would get your debt paid down asap and find whatever way you can.

good luck. you can do it. change your mindset.

 

[HayGan]

OP - I hope you find a way out of this mess. I'll be honest and say I hope that you are seriously waking up to the situation you are in. You and your DH have been unemployed since January. You need to make arrangements with your mortgage company yet you have foudn the way to keep current on your DVC dues? Please sit down and get your priorities in check. If you don't you will never get yourself and your family out of this financial disaster!

 

[sk!mom]

Very true. The "minimum payment mentality" had too many takers in this country. Some of us here are exactly the opposite. I'm so opposed to debt that it makes me ill to even think about it. I can't for the life of me imagine making payments on a DVC purchase at 10% interest or more. Disney is no different than any other marketing machine out there selling this idea that if you can afford the payment....you can afford the item.

Anyone living on the edge....with no emergency fund and serious levels of consumer debt.....this post should be a big wake-up call.

I completely agree. My intent is not to "beat up" the OP. I am truly frightened for her family.

I guess I just don't understand the mindset that can go on vacation- any vacation- when your situation is so dire. I feel sick reading about it and have thought of OP and her family often in the past couple of days and I don't even know them IRL.

Maybe this is because, DH and I are extremely averse to debt- any debt- likely from being raised always worrying about money. We are both employed, yet this economy has worried us enough that we have made many changes in the last few months. I didn't want to forgo our vacation plans or change DD's summer camp plans so I'm teaching Summer school for the first time ever so that we don't have to deplete cash reserves. This is something that I said, I would never do but in this economy, I'm thankful for the opportunity to make a little extra. I said all this to say that maybe my different way of thinking and living is why I cannot wrap my brain around vactioning in this dire situation.

To those who think that I don't understand, my DH was laid off in the recession of 1990, and his long time employer went out of business in 2001 leading to another uncertain time for us. I do understand the stress and tough decisions that must be made.

 

[crisi]

Yeah, but how do really *enjoy* a trip like this. I'd be a wreck. It's sort of like going to an all-you-can-eat buffet when you weigh 400 lbs and you plan to start that diet tomorrow.

I guess there's something to the idea of keeping the illusion that everything is okay alive for the kids. But it might be a pretty good life lesson for them too. Sit them down...."Kids, I know you've been looking forward to this trip, but we really can't afford it right now. Dad's not making as much as he used to and as you know, I'm not making any money right now. We need to re-set our family's priorities....and right now, a vacation to Disney is at the very bottom of the list."

You are feeding the kids for $1 a day per person. The illusion that everything is ok was blown when meat and milk stopped showing up in the house to be replaced by dried beans and potatos.

For some idea of what its like to eat for $1 a day: http://onedollardietproject.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/it-starts-today/

 

[StitchandPooh'sMom]

As Crisi said, OP, this is not a free vacation. Yes, you have a place to stay. But how many resumes will you send out at Disney, and what about when your friends (I think I read you were going with friends) want to get ice cream at DTD or the kids want to go out for breakfast? I also find it hard to believe that you won't spend any money on vacation.

Even if the trip only costs you a tank of gas, what is that, about $30? I'm guessing you drive a minivan or SUV with five kids and dogs - it costs me about $30 to fill up my van. When your food budget is only $50 per week, why would you spend $30 on gas when you could spend it on rice, beans, and canned vegetables? How many more days will you keep electricity for $30? If things were as dire for me as you have presented them here, I would either be spending that $30 to stock my pantry or to send to my mortgage company in an attempt to convince them that it was important to me to keep my home and that any extra money would be sent to them.

You have five kids and have considered canceling life insurance, but not canceling your trip? I don't get it.

I do get that it stinks to have to sell DVC and you want to get one last trip in. But you really can't afford it. Even owning DVC, a trip to Disney is not a right - it is a luxury. You have no room for luxuries if you can't pay your mortgage and buy food.

How many times have we heard from friends - it's just one blouse or one dinner or one vacation that I'll charge, and I'll pay it off as soon as I can. I hear it all the time - we are behind in our bills, but the kids need to play soccer with their friends or they'll feel left out, or we can use our relative's condo for free - we only have to drive there and buy food for the week (not to mention the money inevitably spent on activities or ice cream or souveniers).

I don't mean to come across as harsh, but if things are as bad as you have presented, you need a reality check. There is NO money in your budget right now for trips, cable, extra tanks of gas just because, etc. If you truly want to dig yourself out of this hole, you have to start acting poor and spending accordingly. Mourning the loss of your DVC by taking one last trip just puts you further in the hole.

Best wishes to you as you get through this. I think you will have a lot more success if you are not trying to live your former life right now. You need to live beneath your means just to get back to even. That's a very tough mindset to achieve - I hope you can get there.

 

[dvcgirl]

You are feeding the kids for $1 a day per person. The illusion that everything is ok was blown when meat and milk stopped showing up in the house to be replaced by dried beans and potatos.

For some idea of what its like to eat for $1 a day: http://onedollardietproject.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/it-starts-today/

Well, I doubt things are that dicey yet in reality for the OP. Not if there is any credit available. However, if Discover cut the OPs credit line already, and now payments are about to be missed, the other credit issuers will eventually shut them down completely. At that point, the proverbial "pooh will hit the fan".

 

[smiths02]

I haven't read all the other advice...

I would consider looking up Dave Ramsey...he has lots of great advice...http://www.daveramsey.com/

I did read the advice about food stamps, you seriously need to consider that $50 a week will not make it with 5 kids. Also look into Angel Food Ministries http://www.angelfoodministries.com/

Your DH and you need to find some other kind of work...I know you have 5 kids, but then DH needs to deliver pizza, you need to work at Wendy's on the weekends or stock Wal-Mart shelves on the night shift...you do not have to make $12.50/hr if you balance the childcare (meaning he or you have a part-time job)

But you really need to freaking sell EVERYthing that is not tied down...garage sales/craigslist/whatever

You need to turn off cable as others said...make everything else as basic as possible (dialup internet, etc.)

If you have a car payment, you need to sell your cars like yesterday and buy a few really cheap beater cars for interviews, etc.

You need to put your house on the market and consider a short sale...you can't afford to live there

As far as a vacation goes...sell your DVC or rent your points...if you can rent your points, then how can you argue it is free?

 

[a1tinkfans]

Oh My!
When I lasted visited the thread I really thought the OP was looking for guidance and Hoping that she would be able to see how quickly things can go from bad to worse and to DIG out while she can by selling things (dvc's etc), making changes, putting the energy into job finding...
She is headed to the world???
I still want to say Good Luck to you....but your kids are depending on you to make the RIGHT decisions that will PROTECT them and SHELTER them, please don't let a vacation come before what is so much more important to your family....their HOME and FOOD..
Please think long and hard about your decisions, because each one will have ramifications..You'll have vacations down the road when you are able to afford them...
Again, Good Luck, I really hope you are listening to the good people that are responding and trying to HELP you.......

 

[mafibisha]

I think that it is an addiction for a lot of people on these boards, and I do feel like a lot of the supportive posts are enabling behavior. And being a possible addiction for the OP, I think this trip is ill advised. This is not the time to feed the "Disney makes me happy" euphoria. This is a time to start valuing how much enjoyment your family gets around a monopoly board or by baking bread together.

Moreover, from an accounting perspective - her costs ARE sunk, and those costs shouldn't factor into the take/no take trip. But the incidentals are NOT sunk - and when you are feeding a family of seven on $50 a week "just" a tank of gas is a weeks worth of groceries. And honestly, who among us - even the most frugal - has completely been able to hold to no other spending at Disney - with kids? Its inevitable that a Mickey bar or pin or sunscreen or lemonade or socks (why do I ALWAYS need socks at Disney - no matter how well I pack I find myself buying socks, and for my DH its a hat - we packed THREE last trip because I told him a new ballcap would NOT enter the house) or __________ will be purchased. And once the wallet opens, the money will fly out with five kids along.

EXCELLENT advice.

I know you have 5 children, but is there anyway you could watch children for a family? My cousin did thisand finally got a license because there is such a high need for daycare here. She watches children during the day, and now over night for the families who work swing shift. It has worked out for them and she is making about 6k after taxes per month.

This is a good idea. With 5 kids, you could likely handle more.

I do not see as people expected OP to punish herself as much as they are offering advice that she be realistic and understand that Disney is a big reason why they are now in the position that they are in.

I do know that there are billions of children in the world who have joy in their lives without ever having been to disney. There are millions more who have been to Disney and never stayed in luxury grand villa accomodations.

I think that we could coin a new phrase on these boards. Disneyholic. I think that we fuel each other. Only on the DIS are multiple vacations to Disney a year considered normal and/or even desirable. So many people stay club level at Disney but would never consider this is another location. They read about people like them doing it and think this is normal. Maybe the DIS budget board needs a 12 step program for reducing Disney spending.

.

This is one of the BEST posts on this thread.

Think about it. If this was being discussed on ANY other web forum, it would be totally different! Being a Disneyholic can make reason fly out the window!



I do wish the OP the very best.

And my advice: How would you (OP) advise a friend in the same position? What advice would you give her; how would you advise her to proceed?

Best of luck to you.

 

[RabbitFood]

Wow--what a terrible predicament to be in.

Just curious, OP--who's watching the dogs while you're at WDW? Won't that add to the cost of your trip? (Dogwatching costs a fortune by me.)

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Oh My!
When I lasted visited the thread I really thought the OP was looking for guidance and Hoping that she would be able to see how quickly things can go from bad to worse and to DIG out while she can by selling things (dvc's etc), making changes, putting the energy into job finding...
She is headed to the world???
I still want to say Good Luck to you....but your kids are depending on you to make the RIGHT decisions that will PROTECT them and SHELTER them, please don't let a vacation come before what is so much more important to your family....their HOME and FOOD..
Please think long and hard about your decisions, because each one will have ramifications..You'll have vacations down the road when you are able to afford them...
Again, Good Luck, I really hope you are listening to the good people that are responding and trying to HELP you.......

Yep, ditto for me, I thought the same thing. Bummer.

 

[daileyad]

Yes, that is one of four questions that you have to answer. Were you willing and able to work if work became available to you for the week ending XX/XX/XX? I am absolutely willing and able if a job does come available during that week. They will notify me by my cell phone. At that point we pack up and get back home as fast as possible.

I don't think the unemployment office will consider you ready and able to work regardless if you are not in the town where you are claiming unemployment and supposed to be searching for work. If you are caught, it could result in losing your eligibility, repaying the unemployment, and paying fees.

 

[robinb]

Yeah, but how do really *enjoy* a trip like this. I'd be a wreck. It's sort of like going to an all-you-can-eat buffet when you weigh 400 lbs and you plan to start that diet tomorrow.

I actually agree with your analogy ... but what is so wrong with that? What is wrong with one last big meal? One last drink? One last pull on the one-armed bandit? One last cigarette? One last vacation? There always has to be a "one last" of something that you are giving up. Since this particular vacation is pre-paid and she plans to spend about the same as she would at home I don't see the big deal with her going anyway. And you know what else ... I don't even begrudge her a couple of Mickey bars either ... even if they are not in her regular grocery plan.

In addition, I don't think that saying things like "I'm so opposed to debt that it makes me ill to even think about it." really helps the OP at all. It's just you tooting your own "debt free" horn again so we call all bow to your financial greatness .

I'm with chobie. Next thing you know a bunch of the posters here will be chipping in for a hair shirt for the OP. I wonder what size she is ...

 

[friskykitten]

We have friends watching the dogs as a return favor for them.

Alright, I am really tired now and wanted to update this one last time before I, hopefully, leave this thread to die a not so peaceful death. I just talked to a resale broker and my DH is faxing the documents to them now to get the ball rolling on selling the DVC contracts. They will supposedly list it as soon as they confirm our information. Thank you to those who gave me suggestions on what resellers to use. I was actually surprised that I was able to talk to someone about this on Memorial Day but that is all the better as we can start this even sooner than I thought. Now I need to get moving on the other things and hope that the DVC sells sooner rather than later.

I will keep those who asked in the loop as to how we do from here. It is a relief to actually be dealing with it now but I am also feeling quite drained. Thank you one and all for the advice, support and even the spankings. I needed all of it. And now I am out of here to deal with our problems instead of just talking about them.

 

[Traveliz]

I don't think the unemployment office will consider you ready and able to work regardless if you are not in the town where you are claiming unemployment and supposed to be searching for work. If you are caught, it could result in losing your eligibility, repaying the unemployment, and paying fees.

I don't work for the unemployment office but I do think they would consider that ready and willing to work. She is a couple (three maybe) hours away, with her husband who is not working that week so she could easily get away if need be. I don't think her town is paying her unemployment -- the state is - she could end up taking a job that is a couple of hours commute. You are not grounded when you are on unemployment.

At home during a regular work week (husband at work) she likely would need more than a couple of hours to walk out the door if called for a job.

And when you are calling for unemployment you are checking in with your status that week...not calling in for an assignment.

 

[sorul82?]

Just wanted to pop in, say hello, and share some of my story. I do not have a degree in accounting, but rather an MBA. However, all of my experience seems to be in accounting. I have worked with several temp agencies for the past three years. I have not had an assignment since October. Many, many companies here in NC have had cuts or hiring freezes even through the tax season (although my experience is not in taxes). Prior to my children starting school, I delivered newspapers for three years. It was actually a very good job, and didn't take too long for my ego to heal. I averaged $25/hour for 13 hours of work per week. I would seek this now, but it is rough on a vehicle and the elbow. Things are getting tight....who am I kidding, they are tight. I swallowed my pride and applied at two grocery stores and Wal-Mart, yet I have heard nothing from them. I have sent out resumes, but have yet to even get an interview. It really works on the self esteem. I'm not sure if I'm contributing anything positive here, but wanted to tell the OP, you're not alone. My DH owns his business, so he has to rely on customers paying their bills before he can pay himself. DH has also applied for a 3rd shift stock position, but no response yet.

I apologize for the random thoughts running together in the previous paragraph.

 

[wall*e2008]

We have friends watching the dogs as a return favor for them.

Alright, I am really tired now and wanted to update this one last time before I, hopefully, leave this thread to die a not so peaceful death. I just talked to a resale broker and my DH is faxing the documents to them now to get the ball rolling on selling the DVC contracts. They will supposedly list it as soon as they confirm our information. Thank you to those who gave me suggestions on what resellers to use. I was actually surprised that I was able to talk to someone about this on Memorial Day but that is all the better as we can start this even sooner than I thought. Now I need to get moving on the other things and hope that the DVC sells sooner rather than later.

I will keep those who asked in the loop as to how we do from here. It is a relief to actually be dealing with it now but I am also feeling quite drained. Thank you one and all for the advice, support and even the spankings. I needed all of it. And now I am out of here to deal with our problems instead of just talking about them.

Good for you.

 

[wall*e2008]

I don't think the unemployment office will consider you ready and able to work regardless if you are not in the town where you are claiming unemployment and supposed to be searching for work. If you are caught, it could result in losing your eligibility, repaying the unemployment, and paying fees.

I cannot speak for the OP but I the kind of job I have everything is done by the phone and there is no way I can start in less than a week. I have actually changed jobs while at WDW. I took the phone interview in a quiet spot at the MK and then started the week after I got home.