Debate? Should 22 month olds be "lap babies in First Class?

[Briarmom]

As for my present predicament--high likelihood the seat in question won't even fit in the airline seat. So until FAA changes regulations on seat sizes to accomodate their pint sized passengers...requiring a child to be seated and restrained is a useless practice b/c that poor baby/2/3 year old is likely to be injured/killed anyway.

They don't have a car seat check box when you book--so until you show up at the plane and attempt to install the seat--you have no way of knowing if it is going to fit or not (and I don't have one of those monster sized seats either--just a regular standard car seat).

This is a great point. When I flew with dd (then 22 months) this summer I got a half price seat (which is not offered on all airlines) for her and put her in her carseat and it was fine. Fast forward to October and the flight attendant comes up to us (after ds, dd, and I are all in our seats and I am sweating from craming the carseat in) and says 'she has to be by the window so your son can get out in case of emergency.'
OK, this is all fine and good and makes perfect sense, but why was this not the case on any of the 4 flights (same airline) in the summer? And what if you only had yourself and a 2 year old and some snark who refused to give up his window seat?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

They request the snark to switch---I think they claim it is a regulation---essentially you can endanger yourself (i.e.--YOU can choose to take the window)--but you cannot endanger others.

Seeing as the girls will have to sit in their own row on the connecting flight--I'm wondeirng if the car seat would be a good idea--then I know my 3yo won't be messing with her belt buckle as she won't be able to get out. Provided the seat fits of course.

 

[katerkat]

That actually happened to me - no one told me that car seats need to be by the window so I hadn't booked it that way, and the guy next to the window refused to move. Luckily some of the other passengers were willing to switch around so we moved up a row.

Also, what about rear-facing? I had Russ rear-facing last trip in his smaller carseat, and it barely fit. The person in front of me was pissed because she couldn't recline her seat. Now we have an even bigger carseat - I really doubt it'll fit rear-facing.

 

[Briarmom]

That actually happened to me - no one told me that car seats need to be by the window so I hadn't booked it that way, and the guy next to the window refused to move. Luckily some of the other passengers were willing to switch around so we moved up a row.

Also, what about rear-facing? I had Russ rear-facing last trip in his smaller carseat, and it barely fit. The person in front of me was pissed because she couldn't recline her seat. Now we have an even bigger carseat - I really doubt it'll fit rear-facing.

He could probably be forward facing for an airplane trip.
And for all of you that buy seats for your infant children, does that mean you cannot feed them on takeoff? And I dont' mean bottles.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I don't know--can you request a bulkhead row---then you won't have to worry about any passengers ahead of you.

That was what I proposed though--that until they change the aircraft...."requiring" car seats--is a bit of a problem...but easily solved if they retrofit and just make a few car seat rows for passengers traveling with the 3 and under set. Sure it would cost money--but you can't change FAA policy if the entire fleet of aircraft has physical limitations to facilitating the request.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

He could probably be forward facing for an airplane trip.
And for all of you that buy seats for your infant children, does that mean you cannot feed them on takeoff? And I dont' mean bottles.

Correct. I did ticket my oldest when she was 4 months old--I fed her until the flight attendants sat down and then again when they got up during flight. She really wasn't all that bad--and she may have even been asleep. Net duration--about 10 minutes or so. But one of the negatives of being ticketed.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

He could probably be forward facing for an airplane trip.
And for all of you that buy seats for your infant children, does that mean you cannot feed them on takeoff? And I dont' mean bottles.

I don't think he can actually--then the benefits of the car seat are not there. Plus the car seat would have to be set up differently (and then redone when it is time to get back in the car).


See--the airlines just make this too darn complicated.

 

[katerkat]

True, I forgot about the bulkhead. Will have to keep that in mind!

And he can't be forward-facing - he's only 16 pounds and nine months old. If we had the rare crash landing or even a rough landing, his neck isn't strong enough for it.

 

[Briarmom]

I don't think he can actually--then the benefits of the car seat are not there. Plus the car seat would have to be set up differently (and then redone when it is time to get back in the car).


See--the airlines just make this too darn complicated.

Dang. You can hold them but not face them forward? Do you think they'd even ask? Provided that the baby was not an infant of course.

 

[Briarmom]

True, I forgot about the bulkhead. Will have to keep that in mind!

And he can't be forward-facing - he's only 16 pounds and nine months old. If we had the rare crash landing or even a rough landing, his neck isn't strong enough for it.

Bulkhead is impossible to get. We try every time we fly with dh (since he is so tall).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Dang. You can hold them but not face them forward? Do you think they'd even ask? Provided that the baby was not an infant of course.

When you hold them--they are rear facing.

At least mine were. That was the suggested position for a crash--so instead of having to worry about switching--that is how we took off and landed.

 

[DawnCt1]

The easy and appropriate solution for this would be for the airlines to prepare for their passengers. I don't see why they couldn't stock the appropriate size car seat for the paying child, have it installed in the assigned seat and then clean it when you deplane. The age of the child is often on the PNR so they should know if a child is 2 or 12. That way, all seats could be uniform, guaranteed to fit the seat and available for the next child.

 

[DawnCt1]

Bulkhead is impossible to get. We try every time we fly with dh (since he is so tall).

I recently tried to book a bulk head on an empty flight for one of my DSs (26). Couldn't do it. They said that they are filling those seats on the day of the flight. I was only able to book one. I have no idea why.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

The easy and appropriate solution for this would be for the airlines to prepare for their passengers. I don't see why they couldn't stock the appropriate size car seat for the paying child, have it installed in the assigned seat and then clean it when you deplane. The age of the child is often on the PNR so they should know if a child is 2 or 12. That way, all seats could be uniform, guaranteed to fit the seat and available for the next child.

People won't rent car seats with rental cars. Roaches live on airplanes. I'm sure many germ sensitive folks out there--are NOT going ot want to use one of those seats. I'd rather use "my" seat and think that the seats should be the proper size to accomodate.

I bought my girls tickets on-line when we went to DC for the Inauguration. My 2 yo came up as requiring a security screening. There was no such place to mark that she wasn't an adult on the screen. So we had the joy of having being screened on her behalf.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I recently tried to book a bulk head on an empty flight for one of my DSs (26). Couldn't do it. They said that they are filling those seats on the day of the flight. I was only able to book one. I have no idea why.

I know Delta saves it for their medallion members to move them around. We just booked our Hawaii tickets at 327 days out...the seats were "reserved" but not sold.

I guess the frequent fliers are made happy if they can deplane quickly.

British Airways when we flew--reserves bulkhead for passengers with lap babies b/c those seats have the flip down for the cot. We checked in early in both directions and were able to get bulkhead for our trip to England. But we couldn't request it in advance (though she was indicated on our reservation).

 

[Chicago526]

I know Delta saves it for their medallion members to move them around. We just booked our Hawaii tickets at 327 days out...the seats were "reserved" but not sold.

All the majors do this, USAirways, United, American, Delta, Northwest, Continental, and I think even America West. Seats forward of the exit row (or there abouts) are reserved for high level frequent flyers (regular members of the frequent flyer programs can't get them either). United even gives this section of the aircraft more leg room, too. You can also get them by paying a higher fare (usually full price, which can be $500 to $1000 or more, depending on the route).

I like the suggestion of the airlines having car seats available that will fit the seats, but like another poster said, germ-a-phobes may not want to use them, and I also wonder if it would be a liability issue for the airline, should something happen and a child is injuried or killed anyway.

Still, there are a lot of smart people out in the world, there has to be a solution that makes everyone happy and children safer.

 

[AnaheimGirl]

The easy and appropriate solution for this would be for the airlines to prepare for their passengers. I don't see why they couldn't stock the appropriate size car seat for the paying child, have it installed in the assigned seat and then clean it when you deplane. The age of the child is often on the PNR so they should know if a child is 2 or 12. That way, all seats could be uniform, guaranteed to fit the seat and available for the next child.

Even easier would be for all airlines to invest in a product such as this one. It takes up hardly any room in a storage compartment, it would free parents from having to haul the car seat around, would keep kids' feet farther from the seat in front of them, and it would keep small children safer than a lap belt alone. It seems so simple, why can't they make it work? Heck, I'd be so glad not to have to lug the car seat on board and struggle with getting in installed and removed, I'd be happy even if they charged me for using this thing.

A long time ago, I read it had FAA approval, but I haven't heard a thing about it since. Apparently, it would need to be approved separately for each type of seat it was to be used on, so maybe that's the hold up.

 

[swilphil]

Lisa, I'd skip the car seat with the 3 year old. If you do what Dawn is suggesting, you'd have to buy a brand new carseat and stroller. Not to mention, carseats are not the same as they were when Dawn's kids were little. They are entirely different. I've never seen any 'childsize' carseat of today be fitted into a stroller.
.....
And (from experience) it is darn near impossible to get a carseat back into the carseat bag inside the plane. Get the cheapest umbrella stroller and check it at the gate. They don't let you put strollers in overhead compartments. Check the carseat as luggage.

I agree. The only time we took the car seat on the plane was when we had the infant car seat that snapped into the stroller. The other times we checked the stroller at the gate (actually at the bottom of the ramp right before entering the plane). You can check the car seat at luggage or just rent a car seat (but that's an entirely different thread in itself).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

just rent a car seat (but that's an entirely different thread in itself).

No rental car this trip (or at least not for most of it).

 

[justhat]

Katerkat, we have been using our Britax Roundabout rearfacing on planes since Madison was 9 months old so yours should fit that way. The person in front of him still can't recline, but there's nothing you can do about that. We still have Madison rearfacing in the car now, but on our flights to Hawaii and Phoenix last month we put her seat in forward facing so that she could watch Toy Story 2 on our laptop during the flights. On one of the flights to Phoenix (on a Delta 737 I believe) the pitch in the seats was so small that we couldn't fit our seat in forward facing (there would have been no room for her legs to hang over the edge of the seat and the base of the carseat was about 60% off the edge of the plane seat) so we put it in rearfacing. A flight attendant came over to us while installing it and said "that has to face forward" and my husband told her it wouldn't fit that way. She didn't believe us so we flipped it around and showed her. Then she said "well it can't be rearfacing" so I said "Yes, she's still within the height and weight limits for rearfacing" and she replied "but the man in front of her can't recline". So we said "well that's delta's fault for packing in so many seats. we can't compromise our daughter's safety so someone else can recline." She left then, and we apologized to the man seated there and offered him the option to switch seats with my husband so he could recline but he said he didn't care about reclining anyway.

Also, I have flown alone with Madison many times, and while it's obviously doable, it is not that easy so I certainly wouldn't tell others what they should do. The cheap umbrella stroller would not work for us as there's no way our daughter would be comfortable in it at our destination, nor would my husband push it (well he would, but he'd complain the whole trip about how hard it is to push/steer). We take a very small stroller, a Maclaren Techno, but we put it in a bag to protect it from damage. As a result it is never there waiting for us when we deplane, we generally have to tell the pilot and he goes down to get it. Or it's sent down to the oversize baggage area, which is no help to us when we have a connection. Or, like our April Disney trip, the airline forgets to load our stroller on and has to fly it on another airline to meet us in our final destination. After these incidents I would never bank on having the stroller available to hustle to a connection.