Debate: Nature vs. Nurture

[mom2alix]

Okay, I'm working on a position paper and would really love to get some other perspectives on this one to help me see the other side, since I'm pretty passionate on this one and may not be as objective as I should be. I'll sum up my thoughts briefly below. Can anyone point out what I might be missing?

Nature versus nurture. This is a big parenting belief for me as well as human nature. Nature and nurture are pretty balanced, but nurture has a larger impact. This is not the belief of a lot of parents I know, however. The parents of children I know who are not the best behaved are particularly fond of claiming that behavior is completely determined by nature.

I get really irritated when I am “complimented” on my daughter’s behavior by a parent who then implies that my parenting skills have nothing to do with it since it’s obviously just her personality. Yes, she's her own little person, but I think that the example and expectation I set have a LOT to do with her behavior and I don't think the "sweet" little boy who just walked up on the playground and clobbered her for no reason is doing just because that's "his personality" and there's really nothing his poor mom can do. I think that little boy needs a parent who will do more nurturing to correct his behavior.

Okay, what do you think?

 

[MHopkins2]

I'm with you. There are certainly inherent personality differences from one child to the next, but good behaviors can be encouraged / created and bad ones discouraged / eliminated with the right nurturing.

 

[Cebhfhionn]

Can't really debate with you. I completely think that Nurture has more to do with anything than Nature.

Yes, I believe that children are their own little people but their environment has so much to do with how these little people are going to turn out.

 

[tonyswife]

It differs child to child. A person with severe ADHD for example might lean more towards nature. I can see the difference in nature between my two kids. Although they are equally nurtured by my husband and I, my DD is MUCH more strong willed than my easy going son. This is a very interesting topic and one which I do not think we will ever have the complete answer to.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by tonyswife
Although they are equally nurtured by my husband and I, my DD is MUCH more strong willed than my easy going son.

This brings up an interesting question... Should children with different natures be equally nurtured? As much as it's going to seem "unfair," I vote no.

 

[snarfer1]

Nature has a major role too. You can not nuture out thinks like psychoisis, schizophrenia, down's syndrome, etc.

I believe it is a combination of both, and there is a full spectrum from 1) Mostly Nurture-Little Nature thru
2) Equal Nurture-Equal Nature to
3) Little Nurture-Mostly Nature

Don't get annoyed when people compliment your Daughter on her sunny disposition, even if the attribute it to nature, 50% of that nature (in the form of DNA) is representative of you! So it is actually a complement to you!

-Tony (a.k.a. Nature/Nurture/Nutso Boy)

 

[tonyswife]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
This brings up an interesting question... Should children with different natures be equally nurtured? As much as it's going to seem "unfair," I vote no.

Well they are not nurtured in the same way, for sure.

 

[remyandhollandsmommy]

HMMM...this reminds me of a show I saw on DiscoveryHealth the other day about children that grew up with no parental input whatsoever. They tended to act just like animals (some of them grew up with stray dogs as their families) so does that mean it was their "personality" coming through or how they were raised? I believe that while nature has some imput on the child, it is the parent or nurturer that shapes them into the adult they become. But...I don't know...my DH had a horrible childhood with abusive parents that didn't care if he ate or not and instead of becoming a "brat" or falling into a similar pattern, he is a wonderful productive man who is an amazing daddy to our girls. If no one "taught" him that then was he born that way? I would say that his enviorment kept him from being a bad person, but most of the people he was around were very "undesirable". I didn't get "ahold" of him until he was 15 so I can't take credit for making him into the man he is (I did help though). Then there are the parents that raise an amazing child that turns out to be a murderer for no apparent reason. So that is a really tough question to answer. Sorry I can't be much of a help, but you definately made me "think".

 

[zagafi]

I believe it's the nurture of nature. Neither can be discounted, but neither has an exclusive impact.

 

[mom2alix]

Originally posted by remyandhollandsmommy
HMMM...this reminds me of a show I saw on DiscoveryHealth the other day about children that grew up with no parental input whatsoever. They tended to act just like animals (some of them grew up with stray dogs as their families) so does that mean it was their "personality" coming through or how they were raised? I believe that while nature has some imput on the child, it is the parent or nurturer that shapes them into the adult they become. But...I don't know...my DH had a horrible childhood with abusive parents that didn't care if he ate or not and instead of becoming a "brat" or falling into a similar pattern, he is a wonderful productive man who is an amazing daddy to our girls. If no one "taught" him that then was he born that way? I would say that his enviorment kept him from being a bad person, but most of the people he was around were very "undesirable". I didn't get "ahold" of him until he was 15 so I can't take credit for making him into the man he is (I did help though). Then there are the parents that raise an amazing child that turns out to be a murderer for no apparent reason. So that is a really tough question to answer. Sorry I can't be much of a help, but you definately made me "think".

I LOVE that Discovery Health idea. I'll have to check out their website and see if I can get some info since I didn't see the show. Do you think part of what your husband is could be the result of his negative reaction to the nurturing he received? Another part of the class I'm taking revolves around anti-role models and that they can have just as big an impact as positive role models. I thought that was a really interesting concept.

 

[jrydberg]

The person with a good kid is going to say nurture. The person with a bad kid is going to say nature. The reality, IMO, is that they both have a large impact. Ignoring one in favor of the other is unwise, IMO.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by mom2alix
Do you think part of what your husband is could be the result of his negative reaction to the nurturing he received? Another part of the class I'm taking revolves around anti-role models and that they can have just as big an impact as positive role models. I thought that was a really interesting concept.

That's exactly what I thought, and was getting ready to post. Prime example: my mom is a clutterholic. She's lived in her current house for two years, and I can just about guarantee you there's an unpacked box or two still sitting around in plain view. I, on the other hand, can't go to sleep the night of moving day unless every box - except the ones with pictures to be hung and such - is unpacked and the boxes thrown in the dumpster.

 

[mom2alix]

Originally posted by jrydberg
The person with a good kid is going to say nurture. The person with a bad kid is going to say nature. The reality, IMO, is that they both have a large impact. Ignoring one in favor of the other is unwise, IMO.

I absolutely agree with this. My point is that I think nurture may have a greater impact, especially if the parent is taking the nature into account when nurturing.

For instance DD is a slow to warm up child (a little timid and a REAL neat freak). My mother is one of those afraid of her own shadow types and it just drives me crazy! I am none of those things and I really tried to force the issue when she was younger. I.e. jumping into the pool with her, plopping her into the sand box, etc. so she could see how much fun she was missing by clinging to me and crying. The result was that she became even more timid.

DH thought we should really try a different approach and be much more patient with letting her choose her own pace and he was right. With his methods, she has become much more brave about trying new things and is now playing in the sand box and getting messy just like the other kids. I could have just chalked it all up to her nature, but really my nurturing needed to change so she could gain the confidence I was so desperate for her to have.

 

[remyandhollandsmommy]

I think the show was called "Wild Child". It was very interesting though. There was these two kids from Russia or somewhere near there that lost their mom at a young age and the boy was raised by dogs while the neighbors took the little girl in. They tried to change how the boy acted after a few years and while he became more "human" for awhile he later reverted back to an animal state.

In reference to DH, that makes sense. I think sometimes negative behavior can cause you to do the absolute opposite. My own mom was like the child with me in the role of parent. She was married over 4 times before I turned 9 and had numerous relationships with men. It made me very cautious/cynical with men and DH has been the only man in my life. Her behaviour made me take extreme opposites with men. Growing up the first signs of possesiveness from a man made me cut them out of my life immediately. I think the only reason I gave DH a chance was that he was very laid back with me and played "hard to get". I also think she is the reason I am so anal about parental responsibility. I admit I am very involved with my girls. I am also very controlling and hate surprises because while I was fed and clothed as a child, I never knew who would be in my life when I got home from school. Which is the reason I moved out and took care of myself when I turned 17. Can you tell I am in therapy?? But my childhood was no where as bad as DH's.

 

[Mary Ellen]

Nature and nurture are pretty balanced, but nurture has a larger impact.

I like to suggest you research the studies involving identical twins seperated at birth (adopted/raised by different parents). You have identical 'nature' raised by different 'nuture'. Very interesting.

 

[decker96]

Here's my two cents. While I think nurture has alot to do with it, nature is a little bit of a bigger factor for me. Here's my reasoning.
I have one sister and one brother. My brother is adopted. He came to live with us when he was 3 months old, so pretty much his whole life. He started out as a foster child, we adopted him when he was almost 2. He was raised in the same house, with the same rules, the same expectations and the same amount of love, support and opportunities as my sister and I, however, he has had alot of problems and difficulties in his life, most all of them relating to his self-esteem. I won't go into everything because it would take me too long and it's really too much personal info for a message board.
My mom is a teacher and totally believed that nurture had way more to do with it than nature, until my brother came along. All kids have different personalities and even kids in the same family are parented a little differently based on their personality, but the core values and rules are the same in most families. How can one child turning out so vastly different from the others in the family? To me, it's gotta be the nature part.
Now I do agree with your statement that alot of parents who have kids that misbehave blame it on their nature, when in some cases it really is the parenting (or lack thereof) that is to blame. But this is not the case all the time IMO.
I think it's a debate that will never be solved because there are too many variables that can't be controlled, but it is a VERY interesting topic.

 

[mom2alix]

Lisa,

Thanks for the story about your brother. I knew someone here was bound to have an example that could help me see the other side.

Mary Ellen - That's a great point about the identical twin research too.

DH also pointed out that his older brothers (who are identical twins) were raised with the same nurture and are about as completely opposite as two people can be!

 

[MHopkins2]

If you believe in the concept of a soul or spirit (with or without religious connotations), identical twins don't necessarily have to have identical natures.

 

[jrydberg]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
If you believe in the concept of a soul or spirit (with or without religious connotations), identical twins don't necessarily have to have identical natures.

True, but about as close as anyone can get to it.

 

[JoNo]

The good old debate of Nature Vs. Nurture.....

To be quite honest, almost everyone in the sociology and a lot of people in the psychology field believe the debate is over because there is not one CLEAR winner...

on the sociology side, it's the societys' norms that defines a child's "upbringing", IE eating style, language, etc... However genetics ALSO play a role in the definition of the person, which takes me to the psychology side...

In psychology, generally most people avoid taking one "side" of the biologic and genetic factors (nature) or environment and learning (nurture) of a persons definition.