Don't quit - I'm with you - oh Captain, my Captain
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Don't fret about Elvis showing up. He doesn't like to make too many appearances and he just showed up to give Nicolas Cage and Lisa Marie his blessing
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Mr. Kidds. You are interesting. You come very close to Getting It, and then suddenly WHOA!! A left turn out of nowhere!!! And all because of some lousy compilation Walt was forced to do ONCE!!
You may have forgotten more than I have gotten to this point - but apparently one of the things you forgot was Walts use of 'package' pictures. There were indeed more than one. Dragon was the first circa 1940. The war years put a crimp in animation production, but it was around 1948 or so when Walt decided he needed to make some changes and moved ahead with Cinderella, which happened to be the first really successful feature (profit-wise) since Snow White. The 'package' pictures included Dragon, Make Mine Music, Fun and Fancy Free, Dear to My Heart, Melody Time, and The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad. These were not something he was forced to do ONCE. It was a medium that worked for the business at the time. A compromise if you will - Oh, wait Walt wouldn't do that! - Well, yes he would, and did! Another note - I did stay away from mentioning sequels because I know how Walt felt about topping pigs with pigs. However, the major reason he didn't do a sequel to Fantasia was because of the commercial failure of Fantasia - not his credo to not do sequels after that first mistake.
But guess what? The well had run dry. And tough choices have to be made.
I do love when you help me make my points (if I actually have one
.) But what is to say that Walt would not have faced more of these choices in the future. Just as he would have liked to have fixed the Prince, or gone right into production on Pan, or Alice, or another major feature instead of the 'packages' - might he have been put into a situation at some point that made him rethink the hotel thing. Given his track record I'm sure he would have found ways to put himself in more pickles that required him to make tough choices.
But never at the expense of his all encompassing QUALITY!!
Of course. The 'package' pictures were still quality, still 'Disney' - they were just something different - and that was ok. So, too, could a second type of hotel if that is what Walt felt was prudent at some point - and he would have done it with quality.
And there is nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that he ever built and/or priced that would lead me to the conclusion that he would condone the existence of the moderates, the economies or the ultra deluxe resorts and sanction them as Disney.
As you often say - I disagree!! The record speaks for itself if you choose to see it. So had the need or opportunity arisen Walt could have done a 'package' hotel.
How? How would it be possible to reduce those standards commiserate with price and yet maintain the same standard? How is that possible? Youve got me baffled! I cant see it how that could happen.
Ah
. But how, you ask. You know what you sound a lot like Roy. I really dont know exactly how, but if Walt felt it needed to be done he would have found a way. I think a time would have come, event would have transpired, that presented a need to Walt be it a business thing, a personal thing, or a people thing.
Its either a Standard or it isnt!!
I have to say to you Baron that you are interesting as well. You are an advocate for the standard and I like that. However, it is your view of the standard that I am struggling with. With regard to hotels you say that the Contemporary and Poly are the standard. Likewise, you must feel that in animated features Snow White is the standard. But you know what the standard isnt a hotel, or a picture, or a thing. As you pointed out, the standard is really quality and adherence to 4 things
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1. Safety
2. Courtesy
3. Show
4. Efficiency
I think you set an arbitrary standard, such as the Contemporary for hotels, and discount anything that is not done like the Contemporary even if it is quality and adheres to those principle you hold dear. I just dont understand that. Many of the films that came after Snow White did not live up to Snow White. But they still met the Walt standard. They were still quality. Likewise, there could be hotels that were not quite the Contemporary that were still quality, that met the real standards, not some arbitrary belief that everything had to be done like the thing before. Am I making any sense here?
Ok to the caste system. Not sure I agree with your vacuums and voids, but lets say for argument sake that I give them to you and concede a caste system under Eisner that was developed strictly to separate the consumer from their cash. But the caste system you describe is not necessarily a function of having different hotels, rather how they were implemented. When Walt did his new or different hotels that could be equated with the second generation hotels (read: moderates) of today, his motivation would not to have been to commoditize the hotels, but to make his dream available to more people (or save the company - he had to do that once or twice). No caste system involved.
SO!!! WHERE ARE THE MODERATES IN THIS COMPLETE PLAN??!!
But it wasnt in the Master Plan. Yes, you are right. However, it appears you are more of a black and white man than Walt ever was. Walt did a lot of things he might not have originally planned to. Things happen, opportunities present themselves. Walt capitalized on that, and not for greed or profit sake either. Sure, Walt may have finished the Master Plan first, but do you believe he would have stopped there? Well, that is a bad question because by the time it was realized he may have grown tired of the resort business and moved on to something else. But, assuming he didnt, of course he could have added things outside the Master Plan. I think WDW has grown larger than Walt ever dreamed it would. I think he would have grown it larger than his Master Plan as well. He may have grown it differently, but I believe it would have grown. The Master Plan was developed, with great effort, but there is no way it could have accounted for every contingency or every opportunity or every need that might have presented itself as things grew.
At least it is nice to have heard your complete theory on the caste system and it is interesting, but not all attempts to present a different hotel option would be destined to be a caste system. Hopefully that is all I have to say about that but Im sure you buy none of this and on we will go
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A few other notes....
So, your telling me, in your heart of hearts, that Walt would have built the All Stars? Be careful Captain. Think hard before you answer. The way others perceive your logic and sanity is at stake!!
I don't think Walt would have built the All Stars as they are. I'll give you that Walt wouldn't have considered them good Show. But that doesn't preclude a third generation (read: 'value') hotel from being built. If Walt saw that need to fill, the ability to have more families experience his dream, or whatever the motivation, he would have done it with more quality and better show. Heck, he would have operated them at a loss if he had to. I agree with mi Capitans comments re: PC.
I see every argument I set forth debunked!
...and Baron is head of the bunko squad
. Never mind them
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As I see the whole DL drinking fountain thing..... The strike delayed things. Appears as though the choice was toilets or fountains. Walt chose toilets and made the comment that 'people can buy Pepsi-Cola, but they can't pee in the street'. Did this mean he chose toilets to sell cola? I don't think so. If the strike made it impossible to get everything in, obviously toilets come before fountains. Walt's words were taken out of context if someone alleged that he eliminated fountains to sell soda. That is if it happened as I read (in the Bob Thomas bio).