DVC-Landbaron
What Would Walt Do?
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2000
Mr. Kidds. You are interesting. And tenacious. But you are also wrong! Or it could be we are talking about two separate things (and maybe as many as a half of dozen different things!). From my perspective, I keep trying to clarify the question, define it and work it into something we both can live with, and you seem to muddy the works. You probably see things differently.
So, maybe I haven't done a good job defining things. I think that, as Scoop and I do sometimes, we need to stipulate. We need to be talking about the same things. And because this is pure conjecture, we need to define the boundaries of the "what if" scenarios in order to stave off the wild tangents on both parts. Fair enough? So, first a couple of questions, if you don't mind.
In your very first post you wrote:
So your very first paragraph postulates the so-called failures of the current administration and begins to ask the question about how Walt would have done things. Furthermore, although secondary and somewhat implied in this context, is the issue of comparing what we have with what Walt would do. At least that's the way I read it. But then, in your most recent post, in response to my allegations regarding motivations and the comparison between Walt and Ei$ner, you write:
1- Are we to draw comparisons between Walt's Philosophy and EI$ner's Philosophy?
I'll play it anyway you want. I just want to be clear on the ground rules so I don't get another, "Get off it pal!"
.
Next! We need to clarify your intent. Walt was good at giving people what they wanted even before they knew they wanted it. Almost everything he did had some of that in it, and his greatest accomplishments were almost completely made up of that element. Now, if you want me to crawl inside that frozen head, and innovate on his level, stating categorically what "Walt would do", then the game is over and you win. I cannot play. No one can. That is exactly the type of "what if" games in which I will not participate. I'm not good enough. I'm not Walt!!
But if you want to talk about his philosophy and his "business" approach. Well!! Then deal me in partner and anti up!! I'll play that game all day long!! You see, I DO understand his way of thinking. I DO understand his methodology. And while I cannot even come close to creating, dreaming or innovating anywhere near his level, I DO know how he would implement it. And it's all based on past performance. We simply look at the record. And you know what? It's pretty darn consistent!! Yeah, I'll grant you that there were a few anomalies. A few bumps on the chart. But you have to take that for what they are. Anomalies!! Plain and simple. And that's what I meant by playing a "What If" game. Sure, you could build a set of circumstances that would guarantee that the moderates get built! You could "What If" the philosophy until you successfully beat it into submission and form it into anything you want!! Is this what this exercise is supposed to do? Is that the answer you want?
It's like a guy that's 60 years old. And he never, ever exceeded the speed limit by even one mile an hour. He is the 'car pool' joke. No one wants to drive with him!! And one day the other guys are talking about good old "Slow-Joe" and one of them says that Joe would NEVER go faster that the speed limit!!! But the other guys offer scenarios where he'd be forced into it. "He's going so slow that a guy in the mustang pulls a gun and flashes it. Bet that'd get Slow-Joe moving past the limit!!" The other chimes in with, "You're right!! Remember when his daughter went into labor six miles from the hospital!! He sure found the gas pedal that day!!" Do you see what I mean by, "if pigs had wings"? There's always an exception to the rule. But I really thought we were trying to define the rule. Not the exception to it!
So that's the next question:
2- Are we going to go with one scenario, as in "the same set of circumstances that Ei$ner had? Or are we going to pull any wild and hair-brained supposition into the mix in order to force the conclusion you'd like achieve?
Now, I think you know which way I'd like to play it. We have to have some clear rules if we want to play the game fairly. So if you want to define your circumstances to one, and only one, crystal clear scenario, then I'll play. If not, find yourself another sucker!! Cause that's a losin' proposition! I'll only play if the "All things being equal" rule is applied to both of us. And if I break it, please call me on it. You know I won't hesitate to call you on it!!
That is why I pulled the EPCOT thing out of the mix. Who knows how it would go? I don't, that's for sure. It may have led to the utter destruction of the company. It may have led to the revitalization of urban areas across the globe with so much money pouring in it would make Bill Gates look like a pauper!! I don't know! That's way too big a "What If" to bring into a conversation regarding Walt's philosophy regarding moderate and economy hotel accommodations!! You want to do some speculation about that, that's fine. Just count me out! I haven't a clue!!!
Next! I'm afraid more of the same but I need to be sure you understand. And from the sound of the next paragraph you don't. So let's be very clear on it. You said:
That didn't seem to please you. So you added a couple of "What Ifs". Such as,
3- Did we want to come up with outlandish scenarios that would have forced Walt to build moderates? Or did we want to explore his Philosophy and decide if moderates fit anywhere within it?
I think that's all for now. A whole bunch of explaining, but really only three simple questions. Answer those and hopefully we can continue talking.
Your turn...
PS: You asked for book recommendations. When I first became involved with Disney I asked the same question to a person very much like AV on another site. His reply follows (keep in mind that this was a couple or three years ago. There may be newer ones I'm not aware of:
I would add "Windows on Main Street". Informative and insightful, but a little fluffy.
Hope this helps!!!
ps: Mr. Kidds? Comments?
So, maybe I haven't done a good job defining things. I think that, as Scoop and I do sometimes, we need to stipulate. We need to be talking about the same things. And because this is pure conjecture, we need to define the boundaries of the "what if" scenarios in order to stave off the wild tangents on both parts. Fair enough? So, first a couple of questions, if you don't mind.
In your very first post you wrote:
Now to me, you are saying that the current regime is in question because of these alleged failures. And you want to know, through supposition, reasoning and conjecture if this is indeed the case. You ask further, in an implied effort to draw a comparison, "Failure to ask the question 'what would Walt do'?"
So your very first paragraph postulates the so-called failures of the current administration and begins to ask the question about how Walt would have done things. Furthermore, although secondary and somewhat implied in this context, is the issue of comparing what we have with what Walt would do. At least that's the way I read it. But then, in your most recent post, in response to my allegations regarding motivations and the comparison between Walt and Ei$ner, you write:
I thought that was the basic premise of the issue at hand. Seeing IF there has been a "Failure" that has led to the current erosion of Disney Magic. Sort of, "What would Walt do" DIFFERENTLY than EI$ner has done? So, the first question:
1- Are we to draw comparisons between Walt's Philosophy and EI$ner's Philosophy?
I'll play it anyway you want. I just want to be clear on the ground rules so I don't get another, "Get off it pal!"
.Next! We need to clarify your intent. Walt was good at giving people what they wanted even before they knew they wanted it. Almost everything he did had some of that in it, and his greatest accomplishments were almost completely made up of that element. Now, if you want me to crawl inside that frozen head, and innovate on his level, stating categorically what "Walt would do", then the game is over and you win. I cannot play. No one can. That is exactly the type of "what if" games in which I will not participate. I'm not good enough. I'm not Walt!!
But if you want to talk about his philosophy and his "business" approach. Well!! Then deal me in partner and anti up!! I'll play that game all day long!! You see, I DO understand his way of thinking. I DO understand his methodology. And while I cannot even come close to creating, dreaming or innovating anywhere near his level, I DO know how he would implement it. And it's all based on past performance. We simply look at the record. And you know what? It's pretty darn consistent!! Yeah, I'll grant you that there were a few anomalies. A few bumps on the chart. But you have to take that for what they are. Anomalies!! Plain and simple. And that's what I meant by playing a "What If" game. Sure, you could build a set of circumstances that would guarantee that the moderates get built! You could "What If" the philosophy until you successfully beat it into submission and form it into anything you want!! Is this what this exercise is supposed to do? Is that the answer you want?
It's like a guy that's 60 years old. And he never, ever exceeded the speed limit by even one mile an hour. He is the 'car pool' joke. No one wants to drive with him!! And one day the other guys are talking about good old "Slow-Joe" and one of them says that Joe would NEVER go faster that the speed limit!!! But the other guys offer scenarios where he'd be forced into it. "He's going so slow that a guy in the mustang pulls a gun and flashes it. Bet that'd get Slow-Joe moving past the limit!!" The other chimes in with, "You're right!! Remember when his daughter went into labor six miles from the hospital!! He sure found the gas pedal that day!!" Do you see what I mean by, "if pigs had wings"? There's always an exception to the rule. But I really thought we were trying to define the rule. Not the exception to it!
So that's the next question:
2- Are we going to go with one scenario, as in "the same set of circumstances that Ei$ner had? Or are we going to pull any wild and hair-brained supposition into the mix in order to force the conclusion you'd like achieve?
Now, I think you know which way I'd like to play it. We have to have some clear rules if we want to play the game fairly. So if you want to define your circumstances to one, and only one, crystal clear scenario, then I'll play. If not, find yourself another sucker!! Cause that's a losin' proposition! I'll only play if the "All things being equal" rule is applied to both of us. And if I break it, please call me on it. You know I won't hesitate to call you on it!!
That is why I pulled the EPCOT thing out of the mix. Who knows how it would go? I don't, that's for sure. It may have led to the utter destruction of the company. It may have led to the revitalization of urban areas across the globe with so much money pouring in it would make Bill Gates look like a pauper!! I don't know! That's way too big a "What If" to bring into a conversation regarding Walt's philosophy regarding moderate and economy hotel accommodations!! You want to do some speculation about that, that's fine. Just count me out! I haven't a clue!!!
Next! I'm afraid more of the same but I need to be sure you understand. And from the sound of the next paragraph you don't. So let's be very clear on it. You said:
I'm afraid you have it backwards, my friend!! I don't want any "ifs". You are the one bringing them into the question. For example, I said that he approved the master plan. They did not include moderates! His plan for moderates was striking a deal with hotel chains, allowing them on the grounds and providing limited "Disney" services. This insured that the DISNEY resorts retained all the magic he could give them and it provided the masses with semi-Disney 'moderates' under someone else's brand in order to strictly maintain his STANDARD in his resorts!!! AV also said the same thing.
That didn't seem to please you. So you added a couple of "What Ifs". Such as,
That doesn't make any sense to me. Again, sure we could speculate and find reasons WHY he would be FORCED to do it. And I might even agree with some (although to be honest, I can't think of a single reason off hand). But that's not what we were trying to find out, was it? So that leads us to question number 3:
3- Did we want to come up with outlandish scenarios that would have forced Walt to build moderates? Or did we want to explore his Philosophy and decide if moderates fit anywhere within it?
I think that's all for now. A whole bunch of explaining, but really only three simple questions. Answer those and hopefully we can continue talking.
Your turn...
PS: You asked for book recommendations. When I first became involved with Disney I asked the same question to a person very much like AV on another site. His reply follows (keep in mind that this was a couple or three years ago. There may be newer ones I'm not aware of:
I might be able to shed some light on this... Because I have a tremendous amount of original documentation - I always enjoy reading some of these biographies written about Disney.. and I love to pick out the things which are wrongIn some instances I can actually see where an author pulled a story from another biography.. (which often was wrong in the first place..) But I will submit my list:
First - The two biographies written Bob Thomas - are legend among Disney historians.. They stand as a guidepost to all of us who come after, and I have yet to find anything "wrong" in them. Thomas knew both Walt and Roy - Interviewed them - and was asked by the Disney Company to do the official biography on Walt. His works are well worth owning.
Second - for a very warm biography try Katherine & Richard Greene's "The man behind the magic". They had a lot of access to the family, and it shows.. Although the book is too short.
Third - Amy & Howard Green - who worked on "Remembering Walt" - It is an excellent book - filled with memories of those who knew Walt.
Fourth - Although this is currently out of print - "The Magic Kingdom" by Stephen Watts - does deal in quite a bit of detail about Disney, and Walt.. (Some of his opinions are a little ??? but then he did a GREAT job of documenting his sources.. YAY!! )
Fifth - Try - Hollywood Hoosier - which is actually not a biography of Walt - but rather gives a great insider view of the studio in the 1950's.. (By Charles R. Grizzle)
Sixth - Walt's Time - by the Sherman Brothers
Seventh - Walt's Railroad Story - by Michael Broggie
Eighth - If you can find a copy - try Walt Disney and Europe - for an interesting analysis of the influence of European Culture on Walt Disney.
Ninth - Another EXCELLENT book on Walt's Early years is "Walt in Wonderland.." by Russell Merritt and J.B. Kaufman, Great Stuff on the very early Films.. and some neat pics and letters from Walt.
Tenth - For theme park history - you can't beat Bruce Gordon & David Mumford's - The nickel tour.. Great history in there - currently on it's second printing..
I would add "Windows on Main Street". Informative and insightful, but a little fluffy.
Hope this helps!!!
ps: Mr. Kidds? Comments?
Thanks Hopemax!!! This seems pretty much the way I remember it as well. In 1978 (I think, it may have been 1977) I paid $45.00 (give or take a dollar or two) for a room at the Poly. Pool view (which is the middle)!
.
