Debate: Do you let your kids lie?

[2bearsmom]

I have not run into a parent "not believing" that my ds can't have certain foods, that can't he have just a little bit? That is just crazy and would tick me off! I guess if that does happen I'll have to tell the parent that since I'm not at the party to make sure he doesn't eat something that could potentially kill him, either he wont be attending or he will eat before he goes and is instructed not to eat anything while at the party, not even just a little bit.

We went to a neighbors cookout/party on Sat and while some of the neighbors knew about his allergies and kept asking to make sure it's ok that he eat something, some were relatives of the neighbors and we had never met them. I guess just from over hearing all of the questioning every time my ds went in the house to grab a cookie or something they all jumped all over him and each other, make sure he asks his mom first, is he allowed to have that as there are eggs in it etc.

My ds's do know about Santa, as far as I know he exsists.

 

[Rence]

I generally prefer to avoid lying - but nothing in this world is all black or all white. One thing that I think has been overlooked - in the OP's situation, they tried the truth, and the truth didn't work. The food pushers wouldn't take no for an answer, same thing with the religious zealots.

Her children tried the truth, and despite repeated attempts to explain the situation honestly, the folks involved refused to accept their honest answers. I know that I've been in that same situation, where I tried the truth, couldn't get through so I figure "Hey, you obviously don't want the truth, so I'll make up something more to your liking". So her children basically have the option of beating a dead horse (but doing it honestly) or using the white lie to keep everyone happy.

 

[MrsPete]

Are you prepared for your children to one day be unable to come to YOUR birthday party because, um, they have to work . . . unable to go to YOUR important social event because of a prior engagement . . . How's it going to feel when you learn that your child chose to go skiing with friends instead of coming to your retirement party? Chose to go to both Thanksgiving and Christmas at his wife's parents? Told you at the last minute that she couldn't come to your family reunion because your grandchild was sick?

In other words, are you ready to be on the receiving end of what you're teaching your adult children?
Whatever you teach them now, they're going to do as adults.
Wouldn't you rather hear the truth up front, even if it's not what you want to hear?

 

[ginna74]

well.. we obviosly don't have those issues in our family but if we did we certainly wouldn't teach our kids to be affraid to say they had them. It is NOTHING to be ashamed of! And in my opinion it will only hurt them if they continue to hide from it because what they have won't go away and being taught it is ok to be ashamed and to hide from it and to lie about it.... and what happens when kids find out??? I mean it isn't going to go away, gosh forbit there is an attack in front of a kid and they don't know what the heck is going on, yes it may be embarrassing but gosh what kid isn't embarassed about something!!! I would think it would be better for the kids to not be affraid of what they have and to be taught it is OK and to DEAL with it instead of RUNNING away.

 

[LisaR]

well.. we obviosly don't have those issues in our family but if we did we certainly wouldn't teach our kids to be affraid to say they had them. It is NOTHING to be ashamed of! And in my opinion it will only hurt them if they continue to hide from it because what they have won't go away and being taught it is ok to be ashamed and to hide from it and to lie about it.... and what happens when kids find out??? I mean it isn't going to go away, gosh forbit there is an attack in front of a kid and they don't know what the heck is going on, yes it may be embarrassing but gosh what kid isn't embarassed about something!!! I would think it would be better for the kids to not be affraid of what they have and to be taught it is OK and to DEAL with it instead of RUNNING away.

What the heck are you talking about??? I am not sure what you claim we are RUNNING from? What do you ASSUME we are ashamed of? Do you think we are hiding my son's allergies? Have you read ANYTHING I have posted?

There isn't a single person that knows my son that doesn't know that he has allergies. And if they forget, the allergy pack that is ALWAYS dangling from his belt loop and has bright yellow allergy warnings on it, might be a clue! My son doesn't have ANY problem telling people he has allergies. He isn't embarrassed by it and his friends could care less. The parents are the ones that are the whack jobs and feel the need to question every little detail. Don't feed my kid. Pretty simple instructions but too many adults don't want to accept it.

Again, what the heck are you talking about?

 

[ginna74]

Trying to spice things up a bit. The thread about letting a 9 year old get a Facebook account has a lot of references to lying about age in it.

My kids lie and I let them.......even encourage them at times. I am not at all concerned about them lying about things that matter.

DS has multiple food allergies. He can't eat out without tremendous effort on my part. He HATES going to friend's birthday parties because he can't eat the pizza or the cake. Everytime he gets an invite, he lies and says he already has a commitment that day. He has tried telling the truth and people just don't get it. It is better if he lies.

My DD is constantly invited by multiple friends to go to their church youth groups. She has been to every single one of their groups at least once. She is not religious and thinks most of the groups are way over the top. Instead of insulting her friends and telling them the truth that she thinks their church is full of freaks, she replies with something like, "I really enjoy experiencing different religions. Thanks for the opportunity." When she is invited time and time again to go with them, she generally makes up an excuse. Actually, whenever she doesn't want to do something with a friend, she tends to make up an excuse. In some cases she is just sick of hanging around with the person but instead of saying that, she will say, "my Mom won't let me go."

There are plenty of other things that they lie about. Seriously, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I guess I just don't believe in or care about the whole "a lie is a lie" thing. In most cases it is meant to spare feelings. I don't think they will grow up to be misfits because of it.

just one instance of runining away in my opinion of cource.....I would hope one would want to master this illness head on!!

 

[LisaR]

just one instance of runining away, I didn't make it up lol and what I said really still stands...

I've explained MULTIPLE times that these kids and parents are WELL AWARE of his allergies. Now he needs to make something up because the parents are too annoying to take no for an answer.

Again, impossible to hide his allergies or RUN AWAY when he has a large epi pack HANGING FROM HIS WAIST. Unless you were blind, you couldn't possibly miss it.

 

[ginna74]

then why lie if all knows about it???


***even if fuddy duddy peeps don't get it he ca say I can't come because I am alergic to stuff at the party, sorry.... no harm in that what so ever

 

[LisaR]

then why lie if all knows about it???

Sorry but I refuse to repeat myself. I have posted multiple situations. It is very apparent to me that you haven't read past the first post especially since you think we are RUNNING from telling anyone about his allergies. The giant hives on his face, legs and arms four days a week make it difficult to hide.

 

[ksjayhawks]

I hate lies--noone is a good enough liar to remember all the lies they have told. It takes more effort to lie and keep it up than it does to tell the truth.

What is wrong with your kids saying something like the following when they are invited places they can't/don't want to go:

"Thanks for the invite, but I can't make it."

If they are pressed, they smile and say "It just isn't possible." Then change the subject.

 

[ginna74]

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeow

 

[LisaR]

just one instance of runining away in my opinion of cource.....I would hope one would want to master this illness head on!!

Seriously, this is incredible rude on your part. You apparently don't have a remote clue what it is like to deal with multiple food allergies nor do you seem to be able to grasp the concept that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to hide.

Let me be HONEST and face the truth head on. Your ramblings and sentence structure make my head spin. You aren't able to grasp a word I have said or read anything past the first post. I am done responding to you.

Hey, the truth did feel liberating. Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[ginna74]

incredibly rude to say don't tell your kids to lie and hide when you posted" I encourage my kids to lie"???well I guess I am rude. So attack my sentence structure, as there really isn't anything else to attack, if it makes you feel good so be it. you knew when you put "I encourage my kids to lie" you were going to get differing opinions. well attack me if you must

 

[luvsJack]

I am really not sure why it is so hard to understand that the OP said they get tired of repeating themselves over and over about the allergies and the people still thinking it wouldnt' hurt to have a little of the offending food.

That's not hiding from or running away from her child's allergies. Its just using a simplfied method of getting out of an invite and not offending anyone.

 

[monkey68]

OP, I feel you're being a little too unfairly attacked. When I was a kid, my mom let me know when it was OK to lie. Similar to your kids, if I was invited to a party and I didn't want to go, I would say that I can't go. Obviously, the next question is why not. And I would say I had something planned already. If pushed, I would say I had a piano recital or a tennis tournament, or a family party, whatever. It is much nicer to say that than to say "Well, I don't really want to go to your party because I don't like sitting around watching everyone else eat while I can't have anything" or "The things you do freak me out and I don't want to be a part of it".

Did I wind up a lying cheating adult from it? Absolutely not. And honestly, it's just easier sometimes to just say a little lie to spare someone's feelings than trying to explain something complicated. Heck, I still lie sometimes to get out of things, although now it's usually a bad date. I'll usually text my sister from the bathroom, and she'll call me telling me I needed to come home straight away for whatever reason. Much easier to do that then tell the guy "I really would like to end this date sooner because your conversation brings me to tears". So really, don't worry about teaching your kids about a little white lie. They won't become lying adults, compulsive liars, cheats, or anything else as long as you teach them when it's appropriate and how it's appropriate.

 

[barkley]

i was taught that when an invitation is extended the only thing reguired of the person being invited is to accept or decline. no reason behind their choice is necessary and to question their reasoning is extreemly rude.

that said-i've got a 12 and just shy of 15 year old and with both of them they know that no invitation they receive can be accepted without mom's approval. so if they get an invitation and it's something they know off the bat that they don't want to accept it they have a choice

either

(1) declining it outright with a simple and polite "no thank you" (knowing that they may encounter someone "rude" who asks their reasoning at which time they can choose to divulge or not,

or

(2) saying "thank you for the invitation but i can't accept invitations without my mom's approval so i'll ask her". in this case they come home (they've been taught to never ask me in front of other people), tell me about the invite and their desire not to accept and i tell them "if you don't want to attend then it's not appropriate for you to accept the invitation so tell the person your mom told you to say "thanks but my mom says can't accept". if the person questions my decision then my kids are told to direct them to contact me. i as an adult can explain if i choose to but i don't in any way feel obligation to explain my decision making process to one of my kid's friends or their parents.


NOW......we live in a VERY "churchy" area and there are those that recruit members very activly. with some there is very active training to word an invitation in a very open ended way such that saying "yes i accept" or "no, i can't accept" is'nt even an option. those invitation start with a casual "what are you doing such and such a day or such and such a night?". then when you casualy respond "oh, nothing" it opens up an invitation that goes something like "GREAT, my church youth group is having a get together at 7, my mom will pick you up/i'll come over to your house/meet me at the church". I HATE THESE KIND OF TACTICS. to counter this i've taught the kids that anytime anyone they know is one of their 'churchy' friends or they are unsure of asks one of these questions to honestly answer "let me think, what AM i doing?...why? what are doing?". the other person's answer can clue them into why they are being asked. if the other person launches into something church or other that they don't want to do, then reasks "so what are you doing on ________?" they can either tell the person what their plans are for that day/time (if we have any which is generaly not the case) or be honest and say "i'm not sure". if the person presses with a straight out invite they can use the same method they get for a regular invite.

sounds complicated but it's actualy pretty straightforward. no lying involved, and with persistance 4 denominations (jehova's witness, mormon, adventist and penacostal) ultimatly grasped that when invitations were repeatedly declined it was futile to continue extending them

 

[NHdisneylover]

OP I am in your camp. My kids are encouraged to tell minor lies to smooth over social situations and/or get themselves out of an uncomfortable situation (the things like, "I already have plans" or "My mom won't let me"). They are also told to lie for their safety at times. For example. If they are home alone and someone calls for me, they do not say I am not there. They say I am busy and can call right back (then they take a message and call me). They know to pretend they are on their cells with me and see me in the next cafe, etc. if someone nearby makes them nervous when they are out on their own. These kinds of lies are safer and better than the truth.
They also know that being honest about the bigger issues is vitally important. They also know being a basically honest person means not lying about your age at the movie theatre or cheating on a test, etc. It means also speaking up when you are given too much change and speaking up to if you witness something wrong and the victim needs your help. They can handle that the world is not black and white--it is full of shades of grey.
I wouldn't make a blanket statment about much of anything. You don't teach kids (past preschool) to NEVER cross a street. You teach them to judge the street and know when and where it is safe to cross but to also know where it is NEVER safe to cross (the interstate for example). You do not teach them to NEVER hit someone. You teach them hitting is normally not okay but if someone is hurting you you can and should fight back to get away.

I guess I would say I teach my kids to be HONEST people--but that does not equate to never lying.
I teach my kids to be PEACEFUL people but that does not equate to never fighting back
I teach my kids to be CARING people but that does not equate to never doing anything selfish
etc.

YMMV

 

[sbell111]

Are you prepared for your children to one day be unable to come to YOUR birthday party because, um, they have to work . . . unable to go to YOUR important social event because of a prior engagement . . . How's it going to feel when you learn that your child chose to go skiing with friends instead of coming to your retirement party? Chose to go to both Thanksgiving and Christmas at his wife's parents? Told you at the last minute that she couldn't come to your family reunion because your grandchild was sick?

In other words, are you ready to be on the receiving end of what you're teaching your adult children?
Whatever you teach them now, they're going to do as adults.
Wouldn't you rather hear the truth up front, even if it's not what you want to hear?

I would rather be told a gentle lie than a hurtful truth any day of the week.

 

[barkley]

on the kids being home alone issue and someone calls and asks to speak to dh or me our kids are taught to ask "whose calling please"-then they can determine if it's someone on the "approved" list (certain family and friends) who can be told that we're not home and to leave a message or call our cell. if it's not someone on that list the pat answer is "sorry mom/dad can't come to the phone right now" (honestly we can't we're not home) "can i take a message?". if it's a non list person and they ask if mom/dad's home my kids have been told they are not to answer that question only to say 'sorry my mom/dad can't come to the phone do you want to leave a message?'. person persists they can just say "if you don't want to leave a message i'll tell mom/dad you called, bye" then hang up.

caller i.d. is awsome for this-generaly the only calls they answer when we are out is from people they can tell we're out, all the other can just toggle into voice mail

 

[ginna74]

I had to do a double take myself as I just reread this thread again and saw this

"
What the heck are you talking about??? I am not sure what you claim we are RUNNING from? What do you ASSUME we are ashamed of? Do you think we are hiding my son's allergies? Have you read ANYTHING I have posted?
"
I answered your question, I was not rude, so am feeling ok now, I actually was feeling