DEBATE: Debunking the AK "half day" myth.

[DisneyKidds]

I shouldn’t do this, but what the heck – let’s reopen this can o’ worms.

While surfing the other boards I got to thinking (not a good idea ) about AK. Let’s, once and for all, completely obliterate the “half day” concept as applied to AK.

First and foremost, let’s agree that any park can be a “half day” park for anyone, depending on their preferences. No matter where you go, if you don’t do most of the attractions it won’t take you as long as it would if you did. Secondly, let’s agree that you can do AK in half the time it takes to do MK, if you do everything – and let’s agree that the MK is a “two day” park, assuming that you do most of the attractions.

That being said………………

AK, the attractions, and the minimum time to see them (assuming relatively low crowds, fastpass, no 30 to 60 minute lines, and time to get to each attraction):

Lion King show............................45 minutes
Pocahontas show........................20
Kilimanjaro Safari.........................45
Planet Watch..............................45
Kali River Rapids..........................25
Asia walking trail.........................30
Africa walking trail.......................30
Bird show...................................20
Tough to be a Bug.......................30
Triceratops Spin...........................20
Primevil Whirl...............................25
Dinosaur......................................25
Boneyard....................................20
A couple character greetings.........20
Walk around Tree of Life...............10
Parade.........................................30
Tarzan show.................................45

Total..........................................485 minutes minimum.

That is over 8 hours and that is only doing the headline attractions. Try and do that in the summer with peak crowds and I shutter to think how much time it would take. That is without taking any time to explore and enjoy the intricate detail that can be found in the architecture, the plantings, etc. Add in a meal or two, do some shopping, see the acrobats and play the drums in Africa, gaze at the monkeys everyone walks by in Asia, see all the small animal exhibits – so many other things that could take time, but without them you still need 8+ hours to do most everything, without significant crowds.

So, as with any park, for those who don’t want to do everything the AK may only take 4 hours – but in that 4 hours nobody can claim that they saw the majority of what AK has to offer.

Good, I’m glad we put that to rest .

 

[space42]

Yup.. and EPCOT of 1983 was a 2 to 3 day park.

 

[DisneyKidds]

and EPCOT of 1983 was a 2 to 3 day park.

Saying they should have built AK to be the size and scope (attraction wise) as the MK or Epcot is a different debate entirely. Perhaps we will get into that once we all agree that AK is not a "half day" park .

ps - I'll give you 2 days for Epcot, 3 is a stretch.

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
So, as with any park, for those who don’t want to do everything the AK may only take 4 hours – but in that 4 hours nobody can claim that they saw the majority of what AK has to offer.

You are not getting the point of some of those who are stating it is a half day park.

In saying, "nobody can claim that they saw the majority of what AK has to offer", you have chosen to disregard what many feel is the point of calling it a "half day park". Whatever their reason for skipping certain things, these same people choose not to skip certain things at other non-half-day parks. Since the same point of view is used, to them it is only worth a half day.

Anyone can spend 4-5 times the amount of time that is needed to fill their tank at a gas station. If I was to check my oil, tire pressure, windshield fluid, trans. fluid, brake fluid, radiator coolant level... etc. it could take all day. I feel it is not necessary to do these things every time, therefore getting gas only takes a few minutes. If Mobil was to try and sell it as a 45 minute attraction, I would laugh in their face. Their logic and yours appears to be similar to me.

JC

 

[HB2K]

"It's Nahtazu"....that's what your post reminds me of....someone (or some department) trying to tell us we're wrong and you're right.

I'm sorry Mr. DisneyKidds. It's a half a day park. Period. And while you try to prove otherwise with mathematical equasions showing time lengths, etc I counter with this cold hard fact.

Attendance reflects this park's size & scope (as is). People's perceptions are that Animal Kingdom is not worthy of their vacation dollar. While there are some exceptions, Disney is not bringing in the majority of WDW guests to this park. It's a failure, and one that can't be fixed by marketing campaigns telling me otherwise.

If it looks like a zoo, acts like a zoo, and smells like a zoo, it's a zoo.

If it looks like a half a day park, it feels like a half a day park, it's a half a day park.

Also...

Magic Kingdom is not a two day park. It is a park which has attractions for EVERYONE which makes a full day for the whole family. If the kids don't like the thrill rides, they have Fantasyland & Toontown fair. If the teens don't like the dark rides, they have Frontierland & Tommorowland. The adults can enjoy the scenery, the rides, the shows, etc.

There's something for everyone there....and there's enough to where you don't need to experince every attraction in the park to stay a full day. You can leave things you don't like or just miss for your next trip.

On the other hand, the only way to make DAK a full day park is to experince EVERYTHING the park has to offer. What if I don't like thrill rides? That eliminates Kali, Dinosaur & Primevil Whirl. What if I'm with Children? What's there to do with them? A playground, a spinner and a safari? What if I don't care for shows? That leaves four attractions to see....which hardly makes a full day park.

You're concept of debunking the "half day" reality belongs with other Disney marketing brain farts such as the Nahtazu....

Face it....It's a zoo.

 

[DisneyKidds]

You are not getting the point of some of those who are stating it is a half day park.

No, I get there point. They are just wrong .

In saying, "nobody can claim that they saw the majority of what AK has to offer", you have chosen to disregard what many feel is the point of calling it a "half day park". Whatever their reason for skipping certain things, these same people choose not to skip certain things at other non-half-day parks. Since the same point of view is used, to them it is only worth a half day.

Mr. J - the only problem with this logic is that in using it the MK and Epcot can be considered only worth a half day by many as well. Someone skips much of what AK has to offer (for whatever their reason) and they can call the AK a 'half day' park, but if I skip much of what Epcot has to offer (for my own reasons) I'd be lambasted if I called it a 'half day' park. There is something inherently wrong about that.

The key in your statement is the phrase to them. I have no problem with someone stating that "given what I like to do, AK is only worthy of 4 hours of my time". That is a far different statement from those who say that Disney dropped the ball and didn't provide the guest with a park that could fill their $50 day and, as such, AK is a 'half day' park in general. In the AK Disney provided a full 8++ hours of entertainment, and you don't have to linger over obscure things to fill that 8++ hours. Some may not choose to avail themselves of that entertainment, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

While I'm at it, let's cut to the chase and open this up. It doesn't matter that AK might only be half the park that MK or Epcot are, as some are sure to claim. If MK and Epcot are two day parks, you have to pay two days admission. AK is a one day park for one days admission - either way it is the same bang for the buck. Spend $50 and you have $50 worth of entertainment available to you.

 

[Dznefreek]

Nah~ta~zu' Uh....yeah it is.

I recently saw a show on Discovery /TLC (?) in which Disney execs. said they were struggling to define what the park is,It is a Zoo! with attractions just like BGT (which is far superior) IMHO.

I remember when DAK opened and they kept stressing 1,000 animals. Big deal 30 were crocs about 60+ were fish, not to mention a number of birds. KS had 1 hippo when it first opened. Joe Rhode once said in an interview, "There won't be 1 or 2 but 20 -30 hippos surrounding your vehicle." I must have blinked and missed them.

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
Mr. J - the only problem with this logic is that in using it the MK and Epcot can be considered only worth a half day by many as well.

Yup, you are right, and so are they.

...but if I skip much of what Epcot has to offer (for my own reasons) I'd be lambasted if I called it a 'half day' park. There is something inherently wrong about that.

You are right, there is something wrong with that. They would be as wrong in telling you EPCOT is not a half day park as you are in saying AK is a full day.

That is a far different statement from those who say that Disney dropped the ball and didn't provide the guest with a park that could fill their $50 day and, as such, AK is a 'half day' park in general.

Well that's another issue. My half day there may be worth $50. Value and time are different things that you are mixing in the same bowl. I'll refer back to the gas station here. The cost of gas would not keep me there longer or make me feel any different about a bad marketing effort.

Spend $50 and you have $50 worth of entertainment available to you.

That's right, but it's still only a half day park (zoo with rides).

JC

 

[raidermatt]

DK, you have made some good points.

You're absolutely right that one cannot experience all of AK in 1/2 day. No argument there, and I think I've even made that statement in the past.

If that's really the only point you are trying to make, we can stop there.

However, regardless of whether or not "1/2 day park" is the accurate term for AK, the park clearly has two major problems:

1- Not enough people want to experience all of AK. You could have 100 attractions, but if nobody wants to see them, people will say there's "nothing to do". It doesn't really matter if that's not an accurate technical statement. If people perceive there's nothing to do, or that its a 1/2 day park, that's all that matters.

2- Experiencing everything at AK still takes less time than experiencing everything at the other three parks. So whatever we consider MK to be, 2 day, 3 day, whatever, its clear that AK falls furthest away from that mark. It follows that if you offer less, fewer people will come. And again, it doesn't really matter what label they stick on it, "1/2 day", "empty", "boring", whatever. The point is that it has less value to the public than the other offerings on the same property. You can't do that and expect nobody to notice.


On a side note, as much as Disney didn't want AK to be called 1/2 a park, I bet they would be thrilled at this point if that label were being slapped on DCA...

 

[DisneyKidds]

Let's see who else we can shake out of the closet on this one. It has been too quiet around here, has it not?

Attendance reflects this park's size & scope (as is). People's perceptions are that Animal Kingdom is not worthy of their vacation dollar. While there are some exceptions, Disney is not bringing in the majority of WDW guests to this park. It's a failure, and one that can't be fixed by marketing campaigns telling me otherwise.

For arguments sake, let's agree that AK is a zoo, and it is a failure - that doesn't make it a 'half day' park. People might not go because they might not think the theme will appeal to them, but how many of the people who don't go have analyzed the park in advance and determined that is is a 'half day' park? Not too many. Not everyone who goes to Disney is a nut like we are, surfing bulletin boards assessing half vs. full day parks. You see, theme (zoo vs. nathazu ), failure vs. success - those are entirely different debates. Let's assume that not a lot of people go, - you can play with your attendance figures all you want - for those that do go, there will be those that liked it, those that didn't, those that found enough to do, and those who thought there wasn't enough. Guess what, the same can be said about any of the other parks.

Magic Kingdom is not a two day park. It is a park which has attractions for EVERYONE which makes a full day for the whole family. If the kids don't like the thrill rides, they have Fantasyland & Toontown fair. If the teens don't like the dark rides, they have Frontierland & Tommorowland. The adults can enjoy the scenery, the rides, the shows, etc.

I'm not sure how others tour the parks, but I'll stick with Walt's idea of a park the entire family can enjoy together. I'll give you that the MK could be viewed not as a two day park, but a one day park that keeps everyone happy at the same time. However, to do that the kiddies will have to be in Fantasyland and Toontown (hopefully with an adult), the teens off seperately in Frontierland and Tomorrowland (with an adult?), while the adults are off enjoying the scenery and shows. Problem is - if you are a single family unit there are no adults to be enjoying that scenery or show. No, the way we do it, like many I will assume, is that the entire family goes to Fantasyland and enjoys that together, then we go to a show and enjoy that together, then to Tomorrowland, etc. Sure, I might sit out with the baby while the wife goes on Splash with the older child, but that is part of enjoying the park together.

Yes, the MK has lots of different stuff, but if it is enjoyed by the family together, as opposed to seperately, it grows to a two day park. Just like I enjoy riding Dumbo with my kids, so do I enjoy riding Triceratops. My wife might sit out with the baby while I take the older child on Kali, and so on - just like at any other park.

Everything you said about this with kids, that with teens, not liking show - only leaving so many attractions - can be said about any park. Not every park will be a full day park for every person, I agree - but that doesn't mean that there is not a full days worth of stuff to be done - especially if done by the whole family together.

 

[PKS44]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
While I'm at it, let's cut to the chase and open this up. It doesn't matter that AK might only be half the park that MK or Epcot are, as some are sure to claim. If MK and Epcot are two day parks, you have to pay two days admission. AK is a one day park for one days admission - either way it is the same bang for the buck. Spend $50 and you have $50 worth of entertainment available to you.

You are too hung up on the phrase, "half-day" -The point is it offers less and it has nothing to do with experiencing everything....it has to do with offering ENOUGH. As someone else pointed out- the whole day at MK is not to do everything....it it that there is enough there for EVERYONE to find ENOUGH to do to fill the day....that is possible by offering more-more rides, more variety, more. AK offers less- less rides, less attractions, less variety. LESS.

And these feeble defenses of AK fail to address the real problem- why does a new park have falling attendance EVERY YEAR it has opened...every year it's attendance is lower than before despite their attempts to build interest...the more people see the less they want to return and the less they tell their friends to return...

I also expect the AK lovers will try to make something out of a possible bump in attendence coming up but it may be a fluke of statistics...AK never was an EE park until now...attendence measures only the first park people visit... now that AK is an EMH/EE park some may go there before the more popular parks open two days a week when previously they would not have gone to AK at all or certainly not first....so don't be surprised it the attendence jumps up and Primeival Whirl and Dinoland are hailed as smashing successes!

Paul

 

[Another Voice]

“Good, I’m glad we put that to rest.”

Yes, assuming that everyone on this planet has exactly your interests. Sadly, people tend to like different things.

You would never demand that I see each and every movie that showing at the local multiplex – why should I have to see each and every show & attraction at a theme park. If the theater isn’t showing a movie I want to see, I stay away. If a theme park doesn’t offer shows I want to see, I stay away too.

This whole “blame the stupid guests” argument for the failure of Animal Kingdom and California Adventure is a major problem for Disney right now. An entertainment company is only successful if it pleases its audience. And you can’t brow beat them into submission. Even trying distracts from the real problems – and the real solutions.

It’s a simple rule that I try to follow – fixing the problems saves you all the time and bother of coming up with a consent string of excuses.

 

[DisneyKidds]

They would be as wrong in telling you EPCOT is not a half day park as you are in saying AK is a full day.

But here is the rub, while I might only invest a half day of my time in Epcot, I can most readily admit that there is two days worth of stuff to be done there. It may be a half day park for me, but I would never say it was a half day park, period.

Many of those who label the AK don't seem to recognize that AK is chock full of a full days enetertainment, even if they choose not to see it. Or at least they won't admit it.

Again, any statement prefaced with "for me" is fine. No one could be wrong in stating something as it relates to them. However, it would not be, and is not, wrong of me to say that the AK has a full days entertainment if you choose to see it.

If that entertainment doesn't move people to want to see it - well that is a different discussion.

 

[PKS44]

Maybe you skipped or ignored or did not get my post...."half-day" is just a phrase...- it is shorthand for a lesser entertainment offering- it is not a literal description.

 

[DisneyKidds]

You are too hung up on the phrase, "half-day"

Maybe so. Concede that AK is packed with a full days worth of stuff to do (even if some don't want to do it), is not a 'half day' park, and has other problems and we can move on to discussing those problems .

“Good, I’m glad we put that to rest.”

Yes, assuming that everyone on this planet has exactly your interests. Sadly, people tend to like different things.

Geez, you guys are no fun anymore - did you miss that slightly sarcastic winkie . But while we are on it, how come those who so wisely realize that people tend to like different things would never think to call Epcot or the MK a half day park - even thought there are some who might like different things and struggle to fill a half day there?

You would never demand that I see each and every movie that showing at the local multiplex – why should I have to see each and every show & attraction at a theme park. If the theater isn’t showing a movie I want to see, I stay away. If a theme park doesn’t offer shows I want to see, I stay away too.

Fine, well, and good. I never said you had to see anything, but I am saying it is there to see. Let's stick with your multiplex. If there are no movies you want to see, or lets say you might even want to see 4 out of 8 movies being shown, are you going to say the theatre isn't showing anything, or is only half a theatre? I didn't think so . Now, they might not be showing anything you want to see, but they still have a whole multiplex worth of movies.

This whole “blame the stupid guests” argument

Now AV, let's not jump the gun. I have yet to go forward with anything about guests not "getting" the AK. Perhaps later .

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by PKS44
Maybe you skipped or ignored or did not get my post...."half-day" is just a phrase...- it is shorthand for a lesser entertainment offering- it is not a literal description.

I guess a definition of "half day" is in order here.

JC

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
But while we are on it, how come those who so wisely realize that people tend to like different things would never think to call Epcot or the MK a half day park - even thought there are some who might like different things and struggle to fill a half day there?

Alright, I'll play along. If it wasn't for the food, fireworks and or parade keeping me there late, I would call EPCOT a half day park.

JC

 

[DisneyKidds]

I guess a definition of "half day" is in order here.

Good idea. Care to take a stab?

I would call EPCOT a half day park.

Ahhh, how I love to take a quote out of context .

For arguments sake, let's say you are on a restricted diet, ToD has ended without replacement, and Illumination is nixed due to drought and fire. There - no food, fireworks, or parade - for the whole summer. Would you say that Epcot is a half day park for everyone, or just for you?

 

[raidermatt]

Ok, lets try it again.

1/2 day is a term thrown around to describe how people FEEL about the park.

Whether they are labeling their feelings accurately or not is completely irrelevant.

What is very relevant is how they FEEL about the park. If it FEELS like a 1/2 day park to the guests, then Disney missed the mark.

Breaking it down to the number of attractions multiplied by the amount of time needed to ride them does not solve anything. If it did, your local library would be an extremely popular theme park.

Now, if you are trying to figure out how to fix the problem, you have to look at the reasons why folks say its a 1/2 day park. When you do that, you'll find that the problem is there isn't enough of WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO DO. Yeah, there's enough to do to fill a day, but again, the same can be said of the public library down the street.

A park with 10 "must see" attractions is going to be labeled a 1/2 park a lot less than a park with 2 "must see" attractions and 20 "lame" ones.

Its all about the quality AND appeal of what is there, not just how much stuff there is.

 

[raidermatt]

If we are going to go on, we have to let go of our personal opinions of the various parks, and instead focus on what Disney guests as a whole think.

Otherwise, we can go on for months because person A likes Epcot but hates AK, while person B loves MGM but hates MK, etc, etc, etc...