DEBATE:Contemporary Observation Deck (All in all it’s just another brick in the wall)

[d-r]

Originally posted by manning
Been going to Disney since '72 and don't ever remember going thru Top of the World to get to the deck. At least for the MK fireworks. You have to, to get to the south deck.

I said:

The 15th floor has been the Ca. Grill ever since it was top of the world. You always, always have had to go through that restaurant to get to the doors of the deck.

By "that restaurant" I meant Ca. Grill, and by "always" meant since Ca. Grill has been there - sorry if wasn't clear.

Truth is, I didn't even realize that there was a south side door, but it makes sense that there would be, and I've eaten facing right out those windows. Never occured to me.

 

[d-r]

I only went into that too lengthy explanation because I was getting southernality lessons.

"wrong!"

Dude. You come off the elavator. The hostess stand is in front of you. You take a right hand turn. You turn right towards the door. There are tables on your left. That is the "lounge." It still is the "lounge." you can sit there and wait for your table, or you can just go there and have a drink (Ca. Grill has a crappy beer selection so I've never sat there to just have a drink, but I have sat there to wait for a table). Now about 1/2 the way there, there are tables on your left separated by a low wall (I think; there is some sort of separation there) from the "lounge" which I have always thought was for groups. Hell, they offered to rent a group area to us for a rehearsal dinner when we got married and I thought that was where it was. I know that people were dining there when I was last there because I remember seeing it. I don't know what you think is wrong about that - it surely seems to me that you always had to walk through that restaurant to get to that door - and it seems to me that everything up there - lounge, restaurant, kitchen, bathrooms, and door to the balcony - was the Ca. Grill - sorry if I'm missing some sort of important distinction here.

Let's see...Territory Lounge is adjacent to Artist Point; Tambu Lounge is adjacent to 'Ohana; Crew's Cup is adjacent to Yachtsman Steakhouse...what was that lounge adjacent to the Ca. Grill called again? I guess I'm too young to remember-

 

[d-r]

"The 15th floor has been the Ca. Grill ever since it was top of the world.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wrong!"

If there was something between them it must have been when I was in college and it must have been not interesting enough or around long enough for it to have registered - I think that Ca. Grill was there by the later 90s and top of the world was there in the early 80s. So what was there in between? Please don't say it was one big assed observation deck...

 

[d-r]

No – they took the easiest way out. They shut it down.

No fuss. No bother. No thought.

No effort.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I mistakenly thought that they had simply, and appropriately, limited access to the balcony to those actually dining in the restaurant that it is adjacent to and accessed from. I didn't realize that they actually shut it down. That really is regrettable. I had been thinking that the easiest thing to do would be to simply lock the door, and I was glad that they hadn't resorted to that. My mistake. I guess they did take the easy way out.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Believe the "history" of the area was first a supper club with "name" entertainment.
Then the Broadway at The Top show/review
Then the California Grill--

 

[betterlatethannever]

I think that Ca. Grill was there by the later 90s and top of the world was there in the early 80s. So what was there in between?

Just to add my two cents in on the timeline of the 15th floor.
My first trip to WDW was in June 1989 and we went to the Broadway Show at the Top of the World. I believe the show's run ended in 1990. I think the CG opened in 1992.

Ed

 

[caseymaureen]

DisneyKidds~ I wanted to reply to a post you made wayyyy far back, so bare with me...

Yes, we do criticize Disney for not being able to fill their rooms, and we also criticize them for having too many crowds, etc. And, I realize how contradictory this sounds, but let me explain. The company never should have built so many rooms! To me, being able to fill all of the rooms during peak times and special events doesn't justify building more. Right now they have the huge monstrosity of Pop Century just sitting half built and empty because the can't find enough interested guests to fill it enough to pay for the CMs to staff it. And I don't think that you should build so many rooms so that when you are full, you have so many guests that it causes traffic and infrastructure problems throughout the resort. Why bring in more people than you can handle, especially for a company that supposedly values the individual guest experience above all else? It just doesn't make any sense to me, except for the cents kind.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

caseymaureen!!

Have you been reading my notes!!?? Did you get into my computer files somehow!!??

Just kidding of course - Beautifully put!! Well said indeed!!

But don't expect certain somebodies to completely understand this concept.

 

[caseymaureen]

Baron~ The company should hire us to give them that nice, square kick in the pants that they are long overdue for
Although I'm pretty sure they won't take me back, because, in the words of my PO manager "we don't like people who try to rock the boat and speak their minds..."

 

[Bob O]

Ditto's again to DVC and AV/CASEY. Disney had to choose between giving their guests access to something they have always had access too, or trying to make a couple of dollars by screwing their regular guests. And in typical eisner fashion it was a slam dunk, screw the regular guests and squeeze in ever more tables. If their is a history of Walt doing this i would sure like to see it, but it is the norm for eisner!!!

 

[DisneyKidds]

The company never should have built so many rooms!

I know this will surprise Mr. Baron, but you will get no argument from me on this one.

Perhaps I should clarify my main point regarding that post. There are many things that those who are critical of Disney (that would be all of us, to some extent ) would like to see changed, wish was never done, wish would be done. etc. However, there is one thing most people simply will not accept. That would be for Disney not to have attendance growth on an annual basis. One of the biggest criticisms Disney management gets is that attendance is down. For 2002, not only was Disney attendance down, but Universal's was up. Most who are very critical of Disney see this as a clear sign of failure and ineptitude.

So I ask, if Disney were to have the annual attendance growth in the parks that we all expect, how can other venues not become busier as well?

I may have been wrong, but I assumed AV was implying, as you would agree, that Disney should not have built those "20,000" hotel rooms. He seemed to imply that without those unnecessary rooms we would not have the overcrowding at places like CG and the observation deck that require Disney to take action like they did. But, fact of the matter is, we all want the type of crowds at Disney that bring about overcrowding on an observation deck and increased demand for places like CG. Hotel rooms or not.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Mr. Kidds,

I'll have to let AV answer for what AV inferred. As for myself, I think (I KNOW) that Disney grew too quickly, with no forethought, and totally ignored critical infrastructure changes and improvements that such growth demands.

Ha! Other than that they did a great job of it!!

 

[OnWithTheShow]

Baron,

Out of curiousity, what sort of infrastructure and other changes do you think should have, and should be made?

 

[caseymaureen]

DisneyKidds~ I understand your point, and it is probably the same opinion that most posters have.
However, I think it would be much more realistic and manageable for the company's goal to be maintaining a steady attendance of a certain amount or percentage, not continually going up. Eventually (if it hasn't already happened!) a continual rise in attendance will cause major problems, structurally, and in regards to the workload of each CM.
And, like they say, what comes up must go down. If the attendance continued to rise every year then theoretically sometime in the near future they would be depending almost exclusively on returning guests. While some of us may return several times a year, most other guests go once every 5 or 10 years. To convince them to return more often the company is going to have to constantly improve, to raise the bar and provide real quality instead of resting on their good reputation. Right now they are chasing an unattainable goal, when will attendance be high enough? When guests are turned away due to over capacity? I would be more worried if attendance fell without the cause of something like 9/11, but not growing doesn't look like a problem to me. They should concentrate on what they already have! Instead of spending all the money to build new resorts and new rooms they should be spending the money on more new attractions, more refurbishments, more CM training and resources (because a happy CM makes for happier guests!), and above all, more guest service! After everyone has been run through the parks once or twice, these will be the things that will actually bring them back for more instead of saying "yeah, I went to WDW, and I was kind of dissapointed..."

 

[OnWithTheShow]

CaseyMaureen,

That is exactly what WDW's business plan is supposed to be, but unfortunately they havent been receiving the budget necessary to keep up with new attractions to attract return visitors.

 

[DisneyKidds]

ignored critical infrastructure changes and improvements that such growth demands.

.................and apparently the CR observation deck is critical infrastructure. I'm just not buying what you are selling my friend.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Let's not be too quick to give these observation decks too much "Waltity". As built, they are very bare, primitive, steel walking planks. Hardly anything magical about them besides their height.

Ahhhhh! How wrong you are, my good Scoop!! How wrong you are!!

You see, there’s something “Waltity” by its mere existence. And even more surprising is that I really believe no one, including those that built the place ever suspected that it would become that popular.

How was it “Waltity”? (BTW, I’m not sure I like that term but I’m trying it on for size!) Anyway, how is it“Waltity”? Let me see if I can convey the “Waltity” of it (and maybe another while I’m at it)!!!!.

A family, staying in Fort Wilderness, walks into the Contemporary for the very first time. They walk around the lobby, and explore the shops on the fourth floor. A CM sees them and suggests they check out the lounge at The Top of the World. He says the view is spectacular. The father says they really don’t want to bring the kids into a “lounge”. And it’s really not a good idea for mom and dad to have a drink and leave the kids (who are older anyway, but still...) wondering around on their own.

The CM chuckles and says, “This is Disney. It’s all about family. And you don’t need to buy anything to enjoy the view! Just look out the window or even better, go out the doors!” WOW!! Of course!! I forgot!! THIS IS DISNEY!!!

The father (this time the son of the above story with very young kids of his own) drives to the new Floridian. He discovers that the parking lot is somewhere in the next county!!! A little hyperbole perhaps for story telling purposes, but it is far!! In a bold move he does not even look at his wife, who is the more frugal of the two, and says, the heck with it!! I’m using valet!!

He pulls up to the front door and the hop runs to meet him. He gives the father a receipt. The father asks, how much? The CM says, “Nothing sir. It is complimentary!”

The father hits himself in the head (in a “I could have had a V-8” type move) and say to his wife, “Of course it’s free!!! This is DISNEY!!”

Am I getting through at all?

And, lastly, did someone really suggest California Grill Observation Deck FastPasses....???????? Oh my.

I don’t think the actual fastpast system would work or was specifically cited in this context (even if specifically mentioned). I think it was more a reference to a crowd control system that shows some unique creativity in its application. In other words, something ‘like’ fastpasses. Is that better?

I think that’s all we’re really saying in the first place. They didn’t even try. How disappointing!

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds

ignored critical infrastructure changes and improvements that such growth demands.

.................and apparently the CR observation deck is critical infrastructure. I'm just not buying what you are selling my friend.

Ahhhhh! My friend!! You the best spinner of webs I’ve ever seen. And I take the bait almost every single time! But not this time! I will NOT walk into your parlor today!

Transportation and roads, my web-weaving friend, are critical. NOT observation decks! And no where did I say they were. Please!!! Do not try to twist words, relate unrelated posts and generally go out of your way to cause confusion!! I’m usually confused enough!!!

Now do you want to talk about something silly yet indicative of current management? Fine. Then let’s talk observation decks! Or, do you want to talk about WDW being built haphazardly, too quickly and without proper infrastructure support? Fine then let’s talk, “BIG PICTURE”.

But please!! Don’t confuse the two!!

 

[Another Voice]

Building tens of thousands of additional hotel rooms on property is not the problem. It's the lack support all those rooms which is the problem.

Frankly, the Contemporary Observation Deck is just a very minor symptom of the problem. But as the title of this thread says - "just one more brick in the wall".

How about roads so clogged with traffic you can't drive. More stop lights than on most streets in L.A. is another. A bus system so overburdened and poorly planned they recommend an hour to go just three miles (which again is many times worse than what even L.A. can offer). Then there's the water that's now so polluted you can't swim in the lakes (the treatment planets were killed in budget cuts over a year ago). Or there's the inability to staff the place so that last summer they had "rolling shut downs" of certain fast food locations simply because they had no workers.

But it's hard work actually figuring out the consequences of one's actions. And we all know how Disney thinks about putting out effort these days.

 

[OnWithTheShow]

AV, having lived and worked in the World through all seasons of the year I can tell you that traffic has never really been an issue. Sure at park closing when 5,000-10000 cars are all leaving the park there may be more traffic than a typical city but it still has never taken me more than 10 minutes to get out of any parking lot on property. Sure traffic was bad at Hotel Plaza Blvd., well after two years of construction that problem is now solved, and I must say the solution works wonderfully. The stoplights help stop people from speeding and risking innocent guests lives and also you rarely wait more than one light cycle at any given light, unfortunately roads without traffic lights end up being just a wrecking derby.

The bus system has its share of problems but overall I find it fast and efficient, What 3 mile route are you referring to?

Also what fast food locations were closed last summer? I cant think of any.