DEBATE:Contemporary Observation Deck (All in all it’s just another brick in the wall)

[caseymaureen]

Okay, here's the in-company report on the subject. The observation area was closed for the exact reason you said, it "distracted and took away from the magical dining experience" for the high-paying guests in the California Grill. They complained, and they paid more, so they got their way plain and simple. The area was originally just a lounge, but with profits the restaurant grew and gobbled up the nice viewing area. They did open the 4th floor observation area with plans to pipe in accompanying music, however I don't know if the music was ever made into a reality. Baron~ I agree with you on the unplanned magic. From my experience as a CM they rely far too heavily on planned magical moments (believe me, each work location has a daily checklist of magical moments to perform) and feel that bcause of these they can get rid of all the nice, kind of random, things that brighten up a guest's day.

However, just in case you don't know about this one (which I'm sure you all do... ) I can tell you the best place to watch Illuminations, by far my favorite firework show anywhere. Next to Great Britain's pub, if you're coming from Canada right past the pub, you'll see an outdoor dining area. Follow the path past the dining area and you'll get to a little platform with about 4 benches butting out into the water. I think this is just the best place to see the fireworks. An unobstructed view, no trees or buildings in your way, and usually not as many people although you may want to get there early if you want a bench. It's probably one of the few positive things I found as a CM

 

[Uncleromulus]

I'm with D-R on this one.
Plenty of other spots to watch the fireworks.

 

[wdw4us2]

I'm surprised that no one has said anything about the fact that guests at the CR are also not allowed up to the observation deck anymore.

I personally would be a bit miffed to be paying the $$ to stay at the CR and not be able to use the observation deck. We always went there to view the fireworks when we stayed at the Contemporary.

BTW, there is one quiet place to have dinner in the CG. There is a closed room on the water side of the restaurant that faces the WL. DH and I had our 15th Anniversary dinner there last year and it was very quiet.

 

[d-r]

Lisa, 1/2 of the people staying at the CR have a better view from their private balcony -

Larry, Bob, DB....one man's magic is another man's tragic, I guess.

 

[raidermatt]

Lisa, 1/2 of the people staying at the CR have a better view from their private balcony -

What about the other 1/2?

 

[RoutemanDan]

I totally agree with D-R.
Things change and a lot of things are going to keep changing with everyone getting info off the net.What once was "unplanned magic" is now expected by thousands of people after they have read it happened to Joe Blow.Look how people become disappointed now if they don't get a towel animal from the maid.

It's sad,but it's the way it is now.

 

[raidermatt]

The other half don't have balconies. They should pay more for the rooms with balconies or head down to the fourth floor, MK, or a variety of other places around the lagoon that have great views.

I'm not really arguing the original point, but are you saying 1/2 of the A-frame's rooms don't have balconies? I've never stayed at the CR, so I honestly don't know. I just assumed all of the main building's rooms would have balconies, and if so, based on the shape of the building, at least half would not have a view of the fireworks, which is what I thought d-r meant.

As for the original point, I find it hard to say for sure. First, I can't really blame Disney for putting in more tables. If enough people like the restaurant and want to eat there, then you are going to make more guests happy by adding tables. Yes, you will make more money, but I could see the same decision being made even if money weren't a factor.

So to me, the question becomes whether or not the non-restaurant guests were really causing a disruption for the restaurant guests. If so, something needed to be done. First choice is to find or create an alternate route, but I don't know enough of the details to say how difficult that would be. Other than that, closing it off, and providing an alternate would be the 2nd choice, and it sounds like that's what they did, or at least said they would do (pending whether or not music is piped in).

However, if the decision was made just so they could raise dinner prices for the "exclusive" viewing area, I'm not so keen on it.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

First of all I want to say that this does not make or break some sort of arbitrary magic quotient for me. It is what it is, and let’s face it – All in all it’s just another brick in the wall!

First Uncleromulus says:

Plenty of other spots to watch the fireworks.

But that really isn’t the point though. Is it?

My good friend Scoop says:

Now, if Disney is advertising all CR rooms of either have a balcony or having access to the CR observation deck, then I'd have a different opinion. But, I suspect that's not an issue here.

Ah, well, it might be an issue here. I guess it all depends on how you view thirty years of unfettered access if not downright encouragement to frequent the observation deck, especially for fireworks. They even went so far as to pipe in the music, something that they did after the world was built!! If that isn’t tacit advertisement (or at least an easement, counselor) I really don’t know what is!!

Sir Matt!! We do think alike!! When I read this:

Lisa, 1/2 of the people staying at the CR have a better view from their private balcony –

I highlighted it and copied it in order to ask…

What about the other 1/2?

Bingo!! Right on target!!

Caseymaureen!!! Where have you been all my life!!! I think I’m in love!!

Baron~ I agree with you on the unplanned magic. From my experience as a CM they rely far too heavily on planned magical moments (believe me, each work location has a daily checklist of magical moments to perform) and feel that because of these they can get rid of all the nice, kind of random, things that brighten up a guest's day.

Right on the money!! No one could have said it any better!!!

Almost done!! But I can’t forget about Mr. & Mrs. d-r!!

I can think of a couple of ways that they could do that. Let it be open only to those people who are having dinner or drinks up there, or at least announce that it is so that people think it is, or just flat out charge for it.

Is that really as far as your thinking takes you!?!? I never claimed to be very creative at all, yet even I can come up with two or three other schemes. And Disney always outthinks me (well, except when in their Dinorama mode)!! I’m sure if they put their Imagineering hats on for a little while they could have come up with something a little different!

There are some really good spots for illuminiations, so popular that people are willing to pay for group events there. So they do.

That really IS the crux of the problem, isn’t it! The difference between you and I is that I see it as diametrically opposed to the Walt philosophy. In other words a HUGE problem!! You see it as a (profitable) solution!!

You know there are always going to be things that you really like that go away because they aren't as popular with the masses or just don't make that much of a difference to most people.

Yes!! Again you identified a very disturbing problem that run counter to that philosophy I’m always on about! It never used to make any difference! These plusses that you so cavalierly dismiss were there not because they were popular or turned a profit in and of themselves. They were there because the people who built it wanted them there!! Simply because THEY enjoyed them! And most of the time they were right! And the profits rolled in anyway!!

RoutemanDan says:

It's sad, but it's the way it is now.

Which is all I was really saying. It is indeed sad that that’s the way it is now!!

 

[caseymaureen]

Very good argument Baron! Also, I'm glad someone agrees with me on the real magic moments thing. I went to WDW on the college program as the biggest Disney fan anyone could find, and I came home quite jaded to the whole thing. I must say the magic moment checklist was one of the things that did it for me, it literally made me feel sick. When I thought back to all the "magical" things that happened on my family's trips to Disney I wondered, how many were real and how many were marketing ploys to encourage us to spend more money? It's very upsetting.
I have so many stories to share, but most are not positve and I wouldn't want to ruin anyone's dreams.

 

[raidermatt]

I wondered, how many were real and how many were marketing ploys to encourage us to spend more money? It's very upsetting. I have so many stories to share, but most are not positve and I wouldn't want to ruin anyone's dreams.

For the most part, this is a group used to hearing stories and opinions that are, um, well, "not in-synch with the Disney marketing machine". Certainly there are a lot of differences in opinion, but I'm sure most of us would welcome any stories you feel comfortable enough sharing. Both good and bad!

 

[d-r]

Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
Almost done!! But I can’t forget about Mr. & Mrs. d-r!! Is that really as far as your thinking takes you!?!? I never claimed to be very creative at all, yet even I can come up with two or three other schemes. And Disney always outthinks me (well, except when in their Dinorama mode)!! I’m sure if they put their Imagineering hats on for a little while they could have come up with something a little different!That really IS the crux of the problem, isn’t it! The difference between you and I is that I see it as diametrically opposed to the Walt philosophy. In other words a HUGE problem!! You see it as a (profitable) solution!!

What is up with the calling me Mr. stuff anyway.

Baron, I really don't know what to tell you. Apparently, it is OK to you for unlimited numbers of people to be able to go up a very limited number of elavators to occupy a limited amount of space. The best reason for that that I can find for this opinion is that you feel because you like it and were able to do it before then you should be able to continue to do it. Apparently it doesn't matter if on a given night 50 people show up, or 100, or 1,000, because they have discovered this magical spot they should have open access to it. I, on the other hand, believe that something should be done to limit the access because there are too many people. To me, limiting it to the people who are actually dining at the restaurant that opens up to this space seems like a very reasonable idea. But you would prefer to eat on the fourth floor and then come up to the 15th floor, and so you believe that you should be able to do that and that Disney should be smart enough to figure out a way to allow you to do that, because you have been able to do that in the past. And any impact upon the guests actually dining in that restaurant is apparently just unfortunate, because they were gullible enough to pay too much in the first place, when they could have had an all they could eat buffet along with characters just a few floors below.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

What is up with the calling me Mr. stuff anyway.

I call most everyone Mr. or Mrs. when I direct things to them in a conversation that takes on an overtone of debate. The exceptions are Scoop (who mainly gets the $coop moniker), Raider Matt and AirLarry! (who both are knighted in my make-believe world and therefore receive a Sir) and my lord liege Another Voice (who is Sire, Lord or just plain His Highness or Majesty!). Mr. Head (Walt’s Frozen Head) should also have a different sobriquet (maybe a Duke or an Earl!), but I started him with a Mr. so a Mr. it’ll stay!!!

I meant no offense! It was only my way of being friendly, familiar and polite at the same time. I’ll try to remember not to do it again. As to the rest, well…

Baron, I really don't know what to tell you. Apparently, it is OK to you for unlimited numbers of people to be able to go up a very limited number of elavators to occupy a limited amount of space.

I never said that. I never inferred that. And I never meant that. I suggest you go back and actually read my posts. Otherwise I’ll be arguing (and defending) side issues and things I never said, instead of discussing what I consider the real philosophical question. Maybe you don’t think that question is important. But I do!

Caseymaureen:

I'm glad someone agrees with me on the real magic moments thing. I went to WDW on the college program as the biggest Disney fan anyone could find, and I came home quite jaded to the whole thing.

My daughter is in the college program now! She agrees with you. And while I wouldn’t call her jaded yet, her eyes have definitely been opened!!!

 

[Bob O]

If the area in the CR was too small for the Rest, they could have easily put it somewhere else on disney property and not deprived their "regular"guests of the ability to enjoy the view of the observation tower. Its not like wdw property doesnt have room somewhere else for a high priced Rest.

 

[manning]

Landbaron- What do you think about the choice places in EPCOT for fireworks being reserved for desert parties?

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Landbaron- What do you think about the choice places in EPCOT for fireworks being reserved for desert parties?

See! I come back from my Disney trips and give my State of the Parks Address and for the most part they are very upbeat! I don't even mention this abomination! This account's wet dream!! And some people think all I like to do is complain about Disney!! If that were true I would have ranted about this atrocity long ago!

And the funny thing is I didn’t mind it at first. When they had only one. But now that they’ve taken over every single ‘good’ spot along the promenade I realize it was the start of the slippery slope I’m always talking about! I wonder what the Pirate and DisDuck would say to me now if I had predicted this back two years ago when the practice started!!

Anyway, I seem to be rambling.


To answer your question: I don’t like it!!

Next!

 

[d-r]

All right I'm out of this one. I will just be glad about it on my own and thankful that cleared up a bad (at the worse potentially dangerous, at the best annoying) situation and not bother with expressing on this board why I think this is a good thing. The idea that they could have moved california grill so that there would be more room for people to stand on top of the contemporary for free and watch the fireworks did me in. Y'all have fun and warm regards-

DR

 

[Uncleromulus]

As a veteran of many a meal at CG, I can say for certain that the horde of "fireworks seeking" folks at CG did cause problems and disruptions. Recall several times when "non-eating guests" poured out of those elevators and sometimes didn't even bother going out on the deck--they just walked over to the tables near the window and stood around the table were folks were eating.

Something had to be done and I'm glad CG did it!!

Landbaron: I think Fireworks ARE the point. You're making it sound as tho the fireworks now just can't be seen or enjoyed-- either the Contemporary observation deck, or not at all.

 

[Cricket2]

Originally posted by thedscoop
Now, there really is no "secret places" (or at least none that I'll be sharing anymore ) because everyone and there brother has posted about things like the deck, the beach, and secret DCL porthole rooms on the Internet.

You've got that right! Every time I get out my ladder to go to the Grand Floridian roof, people's jaws drop open and I have to........

_{I've said too much already}

JC

 

[caseymaureen]

Here's another view on the lack of "magical places." I'm not saying this is 100 % the explnanation, but just to add another option in there...
#1. There are still some magical places, you just have to try a lot harder to find them
#2. Here's the real point: out of all the people that go to WDW and Disneyland, what percentage of them really chat and post on these boards? Probably a pretty small percentage, because most that I met didn't understand that Disney World was alll owned by Disney, not just the Magic Kingdom. And out of that percentage, how many of us are really there at each park, or each resort on a single night? I worked in a resort for 4 months and hardly ever met a person who "got" the bus system much less the secret magic places.
#3. What if the reason that the Magic places are no longer magical isn't because of the crowds, but because Disney put profit over magic? Rest assured, the Company does read these boards, and they do know what people are raving about. The closing of the balcony forces people to actually eat the overpriced food at the CG to get the view, coincidence? The roped off "VIP" areas at EPCOT, coincidence? Were they closed because they got too crowded or dangerous? No, because they had a great view that someone could charge extra for. The magical spots became another planned magical moment, but for an extra charge.


Casey

 

[caseymaureen]

DScoop~ I agree, but I still don't believe that that is enough people to make a significant change on a daily basis... I could be completely wrong, but so many people go to WDW without a clue I couldn't see those "in the know" as enough in the grand scheme of things to cause problems.