Dear VMK... - I've waited a year to say this, so here it is...

[funfly]

If there are people in the world who use seven candles and people in the world who use nine candles, perhaps VMK was trying to account for BOTH populations. In their research for designing the menorah items last year, I'm sure they came across this same information. Rather than choosing one or the other and possibly isolating a group of people, maybe they decided to do one of the items with seven (the gifts) and one with nine (the pin). And perhaps that is why this item was not changed.

Sounds logical to me...

I have not been offended by this thread, the vmk items in question, and I hope I have not offended anyone with what I posted, if I did I am truely sorry as that was not my intent.

sometimes it is nice to just have a civilized debate with others. not necessarily arguments, but differences of opinion. and for that reason, i am actually glad this thread was started.

please understand that i have not been offended by anyone and have not meant to offend others. we are all a big happy dis family and i hope that it will stay like that for many years to come

on a lighter note, i hope everyone has a wonderful holiday season!! i know i will, my husband and i get to spend our first Christmas together this year, he's not deployed somewhere! Praise the Lord!

Debates are interesting and welcome differences of opinions, it allows the opening of our mind's doors of anyone willing to other's opinions and thereby allowing all to learn.

I have not been offended by this thread nor items mentioned either. Was not my intention to offend anyone either, and am sorry if I did so.

Also as Princess stated, I too hope everyone has a Merry Christmas or Happy Holiday Season.........and glad to hear you and your husband are together this year! Enjoy!

 

[OneLittleSpark]

Personally, I say thank you for this thread. I understand this isn't the way you wanted or intended it to go, but I do enjoy seeing other people's opinions, faiths, beliefs and takes on life. Also, thank you everyone who has posted, making it a polite and reasonable exchange of opinions. I have learnt things from this post that I didn't know before including, I'm a little embarrassed to say, about my own faith (I never knew the whole Xmas thing before).

Before I go any further, I intend no offense to anyone, and hope no one takes any of my posts in any way other than they are intended.

Christmas items:
Wreath - blue, green, pin
Candy Canes - red, blue, green, magenta, yellow
Christmas Tree
Santa's Chair
Skeleton at the Helm Xmas
Holiday '05 Pin
Holiday '06 Christmas Pin
Holiday '06 Candy Cane Pin
Holiday '06 Wreath Pin
Nightmare Before Christmas Pin
Reindeer Ears Hat
Santa Hat - red and green

I just wanted to point out, these are not actually Christian items, any more than they are Jewish, Muslim or Islamic. They have Pagan roots and have been adopted by many to celebrate this time of year. They are secular symbols of the 'holiday season' (ah, don't I sound like a greetings card?). We didn't even have Christmas trees over here until Prince Albert brought them across from Germany for us. Having said all that, I don't mind using them to celebrate my Christmas, though they're an 'optional extra' for me.

I have no objections with these secular items being in VMK, it would just be nice if we had, maybe, a nativity pin, or an advent candle wreath as well. Maybe next year. We could also celebrate other major religious festivals, though I shan't be so presumptive as to assume I know which ones to suggest.

Thank you all for this discussion, though it has veered rather off course from the original post.

 

[moikturtle]

A menorah used to celebrate Channukah has 9 candles. Fact.

The point is very simple: VMK created a very specific item incorrectly (fine, mistakes happen) and knowingly re-released it while still wrong (not fine).

That's it. It's a pretty basic fact, nothing more.

The thing is, that seems to not even be fact across the board. As several have stated in this discussion, it seems that not ALL individuals who celebrate Channukah celebrate it with nine candles. There's more than one type of Judaism in the world, just as there's more than one type of Christianity, more than one type of Islam, more than one type of Buddhism, more than one type of Hinduism, and so on. When it comes to something pertaining to beliefs, or even culture in general it is very difficult to state something as a blatant fact, because while it may be fact to you, it is not necessarily fact to everyone else.

Honestly, the more and more I think about it, the more I believe that this was all done intentionally by VMK, to account for both types of traditions (seven candles or nine candles). There ARE people in the world who are practicing this tradition with seven instead of nine, and while it may be different than what you are personally used to, that does not make it wrong.

 

[JollyRogerD]

The thing is, that seems to not even be fact across the board. As several have stated in this discussion, it seems that not ALL individuals who celebrate Channukah celebrate it with nine candles.

Here is the thing. There are 8 nights of Chanukah. Each night you light one more candle until the last night you are lighting all 8. You have to have a 9 candled menorah to do that on Chanukah (one extra candle to light the rest). There are people who are lighting a 7 candled menorah but what do they do on the 8th night of Chanukah? Light 7? It's not the correct thing to use. Granted some people do in their ignorance. It's fine, at least they ARE celebrating but the correct way IS to light an 8 candled one with 1 extra to light the rest. One for each night of the holiday. If you ask ANY Rabbi of any Jewish denomination, that is what they will say.

 

[AmberDaze]

I found this very interesting...from "The Jewish Book of Why..."

"The menora that was the centerpiece of the Tabernacle in the wilderness and of the First and Second Temples in Jerusalem had seven branches. After the Temples were destroyed, a tradition developed (Menachot 28b) that the appurtenances of the Temple should not be duplicated and that seven-branched menorot should therefore not be constructed. The six-branched menora became popular, but any number other than seven was permissible. A Star of David was usually affixed to the center arm of the six-branched menora."

To me, it doesn't matter whether others celebrate Hanukkah with a 7 candle or 9 candle menorah...that's their own business. But a 9 candle menorah (hanukkiah) is special for Hanukkah. It represents the legend of the miraculous provision of oil for eight days. During the eight-day annual holiday, one candle is lit each day. The 9th candle (shamash), is used to light the others. So because the VMK menorah with Hanukkah presents is labeled "Hanukkah" (however they spelled it), it should reflect the Hanukkah menorah. JMO~ I would also love to know if this was something that VMK did intentionally...

 

[vmkfan13]

I don't think VMK should focus on adding two candles to a menorah right now, just be glad VMK recognises the importance of hanukkah to certain players. I don't mean this in any disrespect or denial of the importance of this holiday, however, there are many things in vmk that needs fixing, and these small errors should be something forgiven. It's only a mistake, they had a good intent in mind.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

The fact of the matter is, there is no central authority in the Hebrew faith to say which is right and which is wrong. Lots of books and traditions are written or done by those who practice them, therefore, they will ALWAYS be right. Thats the thing about faith, you CANNOT be wrong, so everyone is right, to themselves. Others may think they are wrong, but of course, because they have to be right too, or their faith is shattered.

 

[Disney Dreams]

The thing is, that seems to not even be fact across the board. As several have stated in this discussion, it seems that not ALL individuals who celebrate Channukah celebrate it with nine candles....

Honestly, the more and more I think about it, the more I believe that this was all done intentionally by VMK, to account for both types of traditions (seven candles or nine candles). There ARE people in the world who are practicing this tradition with seven instead of nine, and while it may be different than what you are personally used to, that does not make it wrong.

I have read posts here of people who know people who celebrate Channukah with 7 candles. Everyone has their own holiday traditions and customs and that is what makes the holidays SOOO wonderful. With all respect and 100% appreciation for everyone to celebrate festivities in any way they chose: Lighting a menorah for Channukah for 6 nights does not make any sense at all to me.

I will not go into the religious side of the holiday because this is not the place for it, but Channukah lasts for 8 nights. It celebrates something that occurred for 8 nights. Therefore, 8 candles are lit - 1 candle/night for, yep, 8 nights (the last was lit last night, btw if anyone is interested). The 9th candle is not counted in the 8 for reasons that cross into the religious side of the explanation. By the simple recognition of the existence of the holiday, Channukah, you are recognizing an 8 night event in history. A 7 candled candelabra would simply have no purpose in the celebration of Channukah. It's an 8 night festival, therefore, a 9 candled Channukah Menorah (again the 9th candle is not counted).

I don't think VMK should focus on adding two candles to a menorah right now, just be glad VMK recognises the importance of hanukkah to certain players. I don't mean this in any disrespect or denial of the importance of this holiday, however, there are many things in vmk that needs fixing, and these small errors should be something forgiven. It's only a mistake, they had a good intent in mind.

ABSOLUTELY AGREE... when it was first released a year ago. Which, as stated in the very first post of this thread, is why I made the choice not to publicly say anything at that time. Channukah was thought about, a menorah was attempted to be created, cool. Thanks for the great intention. They were not going to fix it in the short holiday season (and probably don't have the staff to do so) so... no point.

HOWEVER - A year later, when they were fully aware of the error and had a year to fix it or just not use it again, they chose to re-release the item with its error. That IS the time to say something.

 

[mtlhddoc2]

I have read posts here of people who know people who celebrate Channukah with 7 candles and in all respect and 100% appreciation for everyone to celebrate festivities in any way they chose: This just does not make any sense at all to me.

I will not go into the religious side of the holiday because this is not the place for it, but Channukah lasts for 8 nights. It celebrates something that occurred for 8 nights. Therefore, 8 candles are light - 1 candle/night for, yep, 8 nights. (The 9th candle is not counted in the 8 for reasons that cross into the religious side of the explanation.) By the simple recognition of the existence of the holiday, Channukah, you are recognizing an 8 night event in history. A 7 candled candelabra would simply have no purpose in the celebration of Channukah. It's an 8 night festival, therefore, an 9 candled Channukah Menorah (again the 9th candle is not counted).

again, you assume that all Jewish people celebrate it the same way, some may not.

Some Greek Orthodox Christians celebrate Christmas on January 6th. Jesus' birthday is widely regarded at being May 20th. december 25th was chosen as a date for it as yet another co-opting of pagan rituals (namely the Winter Solistice celebration, which originates completely outside of the Christian religions). Yes, Christmas is widely regarded on December 25th, but some celebrate it on different dates, that does not make them wrong, just like celebrating Hanukkah differently does not make those Jewish people wrong, it only makes them different.

Typically, the Menorah (7 candles) is a typical candelabra within Jewish rituals, and is even pictured on the flag of Israel. So in the "Hanukkah Presents" we could conclude that the menorah is one of the gifts within the presents. I didnt mention this earlier, because I figured at least ONE of you would conclude that possibly the menorah in the presents was actually a present!

 

[Disney Dreams]

again, you assume that all Jewish people celebrate it the same way, some may not.

I do not assume that EVER. My family celebrates holidays VERY differently than most "traditional" families so I would NEVER make any presumption about how anyone celebrates the holiday. This has turned almost to the point of silly.

Channukah is an 8 night / 8 day festival. That is a fact. Celebrate it anyway you want, but it's an 8 night festival. A Channukah menorah has 9 candles, 1 for each of the 8 nights, plus 1.

 

[NedsTJ]

I personally would like to see a pin created to celibrate Festivus!

 

[disvaclub92]

The point of this thread has gone on a path that we have decided to close.

The original intent was of the thread was clearly not to bring on a discussion to question the religious belief of others.